A Disappointment

[Neil H]

Hi guys as you may remember I have the Celestron powerseeker 114 , well I just looked at the moon with the 20 mm and it was a bright disc so I added the 3x Barlow that made it a bigger bright disc so then tried the 4mm with and without the Barlow could not see a thing , so what am I doing wrong ? Am I expecting to much ? I have seen photos of the moon taken with the same scope as mine and have a lot of detail 

It's not put me off its made more  determined to keep going till I get it right and see some detail 

Edited December 8, 2019 by Neil H
Spelling mistakes

[John]

The Powerseeker 114 has a focal length of 900mm so the 20mm eyepiece will be giving 45x magnification and should show nice views of the whole lunar disk. You need to ensure that you adjust the focus to get the clearest and sharpest view.

Add a 3x barlow and you have 135x magnification which should still be nice if the seeing conditions are steady. You will need to adjust the focus again to get a sharp view.

The 4mm eyepiece though gives 225x which is probably too much magnification for a clear view - you should see some portion of the lunar surface but it might not be steady or clear.

The 3x barlow and the 4mm eyepiece gives 675x which is far, far too much magnification to get a clear or sharp image with the 114mm scope, or most other scopes for that matter.

If you are not seeing any detail even with just the 20mm eyepiece in the scope then I suspect that you need to adjust the focus until you see a view a bit like this:

 

 

[Neil H]

Hi thank  you so stick with the 20 with or without Barlow i should get a good view , should I get some more eyepieces if yes what size 

[Geoff Barnes]

My first thought was that the moon is nearly full so there will be few if any shadows to give a detailed view.

Better to view it in a week or so when the shadows along the terminator edge will be strong again.

[John]

22 minutes ago, Geoff Barnes said:

My first thought was that the moon is nearly full so there will be few if any shadows to give a detailed view.

Better to view it in a week or so when the shadows along the terminator edge will be strong again.

Thats true - it does get much more interesting when at a gibbous, half or crescent phase.

 

[johninderby]

Not long to wait until viewing improves. 

[Rob Sellent]

As mentioned in the other post , I imagine the scope will turn out to be a cracking bit of kit "but my gut feeling tells me its accessories are going to let you down and be very frustrating to work with." You'll probably find the scope is undermounted on the EQ1, the finder will cause niggling frustrations, the 4mm will not be very useful and the Barlow's quality will be poor. The 20mm ought to be fine and within reason should give you nice, sharp views at around x45. 

With that in mind, if possible it might be an idea to give the scope a general overhaul. If you're not sure about doing this yourself, try to get along to a local astro club where I'm sure you'll find someone to give you a hand. Failing that, SGL can also help a lot. The overhaul ought to include:

• remove the rear end of the scope and centre-spot the primary mirror if and only if it doesn't have one already (there are many example on the web to doing this, so try to find one you're comfortable with).
• it may also help to loosen the rubber clips holding the mirror just a touch so as to avoid 'pinched optics'
• get yourself a Cheshire eyepiece
• and follow this outstanding PDF on collimating

If you are patient and take your time, collimating your scope shouldn't cause too much of a problem. After that with your 20mm, you should expect to see something like @Johnimage above.

[joe aguiar]

hi neil remember as we said in that other post it manilly the finder ep and barlow which is not going to be good.

since you are trying to not upgrade and use what u got for now you wont get great views out of those items, but keep getting experence and i think what will happen is you will get so fet-up with those items that you will then just upgrade it.

those eps are hygens ep with are 2 element and 25 degree fov . The barlow i think since i didnt see a pic but to my gut felling its a single element barlow i wouldnt even use it AT ALL. just for now use the 20mm ep and if it has a 12mm ep after that the views wont be good so u may as well stick to these eps, and ya forget the 4mm ep as well, the view will be big but blurry so thats no use.

joejaguar

[JOC]

@Neil H when you twist the big knobs near the eye piece does it go up and down?  If so this will be adjusting the focus.  If twisting the big knobs doesn't make the Eyepiece (EP) go up and down there maybe a locking thumb screw somewhere on the focusser which is done up - if this is the case no amount of twiddling the big knobs will drive the eyepiece up and down.  So find the thumb screw that lets this happen and try undoing it a little and try again.  Once you know the EP is going up and down with the big knobs, then see if you can focus the telescope with an EP in it - the 20mm will do - during the day (being careful to point away from the sun) on a distant object (aerial, tree, church spire - anything will do) turn the big knobs until it drops into focus.  If you can't get focus you may have not placed an extender in the kit into the eyepiece holder - some telescopes have a part that gives some extra distance.  Remember that once you have focus with one EP this will need readjusting if you put any other EP in the holder.  If you can focus clearly on a object during the day (don't worry if its upside down) you should be able to focus on the moon at night by moving the big knobs in a similar way whether its full or otherwise and within you current collimation you should get a passably decent view even if the collimation is a bit out IMO.  If you can't even focus on something during the day, come back as there might be something else wrong.

[Gonko]

I bought the Celestron 114az as my first scope and a 8inch dob came up for sale a few weeks later, so the celestron went. 

The 3x barlow that ships with the unit....meh...not great. In fact none of the EP's are great. Even the 20mm EP in my dob is rubbish compared to the 25mm Orion one (shipped with dob) and the 15mm celestron piece from the astromaster kit.

The 4mm is total garbage and I never managed to get a decent image with it. It tended not to snap into focus very well.

I never got to try better EP's in the astromaster, but I can say the standard supplied ones are quite poor compared to other cheap EP's. The 4mm is better served as a golf tee 🤣

[joe aguiar]

I saw on Amazon a 3pk of generic plossl for like $45 that's about $28uk even tho it's no name brand should make the views alot better

Joejaguar 

[markse68]

Also if the moon is too bright (it was in my Tal-1 which is a similar spec) then you probably need a moon (nd) filter which you can pick up quite cheaply - really helps tame that bright disk and see more detail more comfortably

[johninderby]

On the subject of moon filters for brightness some find them useful but many find them  unnecessary..It all depends on ypur eyesight as some people are very sensative to brightness and others aren’t. So if you find the moon too bright then certainly get one but you may not need one. 

I do like the Baader Moon & Skyglow filter on the moon as it gives the moon a neutral natural grey tone.

[markse68]

I guess it also depends on aperture and fov- there’s no way I can look at the moon wide field without a hefty nd with my 8”dob- like staring into headlights 😳

[johninderby]

Observing the moon last night with my 10” dob gave me no problems without an ND filter. Didn’t seem too bright at all. 

Apparently the lighter your eye colour the more sensative you are to brightness and are slower to adapt. Wonder if that is a factor in why some do or don’t need a moon filter? 🤔

[John]

I've no problem observing the Moon with my 12 inch dob and no filter. I do have a suitable ND filter but I keep it for outreach observing in case anyone else feels that they need it.

 

[markse68]

2 hours ago, johninderby said:

Apparently the lighter your eye colour the more sensative you are to brightness and are slower to adapt. Wonder if that is a factor in why some do or don’t need a moon filter? 🤔

Interesting theory John- I googled and there does seem to be something to it and it holds that people from hotter brighter climes do tend to have brown eyes- do you both? Weird thing is I’m not hypersensitive to bright sunlight and rarely feel the need for sunglasses, though I probably should and kinda wish I had in the past as they do protect from uv... If I view the moon full disk without nd and then look away it takes ages for the blind spot and purple/green embossed moon image to dissipate which is not really enjoyable. 

[johninderby]

Have started a poll in the Astro Lounge asking for people’s need to use a moon filter or not and their eye colour.. Will be interested to see if there is a link. 

Edited December 10, 2019 by johninderby

[Louis D]

Try keeping a porch or yard light on nearby so your eyes don't dark adapt.  At full moon, it's as bright as asphalt at noon, which is to say pretty dark as seen below in comparison to the truly bright Earth.  It's just that your eyes are more than likely adjusted to darkness.

Edited December 10, 2019 by Louis D