1st Scope - Present for wife.

[Empgamer]

Hi

New to forum and seeking some help to avoid a disastrous purchase. Looking to spend up to £500 all in (if needed) on Xmas present for wife. It will be her first scope so I want it to be easy and enjoyable to use. We live in SW Wales with little light pollution and it will be used mainly at home. I work away a lot and she will need to be able to set up and use herself. She can be technically minded but I don't want the potential fuss and hassle of some scopes to result in it not getting used.

I have done NOTHING but internet research the last few days and am getting a little blasted with it all At the moment I have come down to either a refractor (short or long - god knows) or a Mak/Schmidtt.

Few things I have considered:

1) Reflectors seem to offer much bang for buck BUT will it get used and/or is it a bit daunting (esp the non Dob ones).

2) Dobs seem VERY popular and the Skwyatcher 200 or 250 remain potential contenders.

3) GoTO MIGHT be useful but would the money be better spent on Turn Left at Orion and better optics/mount and accessories? That said the assistance of a well set up GoTo might be a benefit. Or, will she spend more time piddling with setup/GoTo than watching.

4) 5-10 mins set up is perhaps better (accepting cool down times).

5) Some of the older discontinued? stock at FLO might offer better VFM.

6) Desirability of being able to take 2" eyepieces

7) Potential for upgrade to driven and/or GoTo if needed.

So, at the moment I am considering all options which SEEEM to fit the bill (bearing in mind I know zilch):

a) Skwaytcher Star Travel 102 short or long tube with/ without GoTo (optics mount good enough)

Nexstar 102 SLT (money wasted on GoTo)

c) C80ED-R on GQ5: Seems good value. Strong (heavy?) mount. Is it a good choice over Startravel 102 or even Nexstar 102 SLTd) C6S (XLT): Seems cracking deal and good mount. Better than C80EDR or just different.

Both the last two seem to offer good mounts and seem to be good VFM. But, good as first scopes? Better than Dob bearing in mind my considerations?

Then of course the added complication of Nextsar 4 SE etc. Decisions, decisions. Going round in circles. Need to order ASAP. Any help MUCH appreciated

Sorry for formatting problems but my paragraph separation does not seem to transfer to finished article.

[Casus belli]

Im a big dob fan so I'd suggest a big dob. They are easy to set up easy to use and they give you all the thrill of the hunt. You also mention you dont have to much light pollution which is the conditions that dobs thrive on. Skywatchers are highly thought of.

They do tend to be a bit heavy though so perhaps your wife can expect a little help from her dearly beloved hubby?

Im sure someone will be along shortly to explain why you should get a go-to scope but your named choices seem very sound

[Empgamer]

My main problem is that I work overseas a lot so she NEEDS to be able to do it herself. Anything that makes it become more of a pain than pleasure may lead to lack of use. I thought of perhaps the refractor or cassegrain as a first scope (which she can retain for transportable and grab 'n' go use) with the potential of me getting getting her the 250 Skywatcher Dob when I am back full time and able to help her set up etc.

It's not a killer IF the Dob was felt to be significantly better as the first scope, in which case I may get the 200 for her, but even that comes in at 40-50lb I suspect?????

I want her to enjoy using it, not dread it. That's my only concern with Dobs.

PS what do I have to do to get paragraphs to stay apart???????????

[Helen]

As a S Wales woman who has been through a few scope options.... maybe I might be able to offer some advice

Ease of use, ease of finding things, and ease of set up would be my criteria.

So my first recommendation would be to go for an Alt-Az mount not an equatorial. Equatorials are fine when you know what you're doing, but from my experieince I'd say that for an absolute beginner with no-one around for guidance that there is a significant risk that frustration will set in early and that will be that! Oh, and an EQ mount is harder to carry around I think.

The choice then becomes between a mount which has a motor drive or one which is manual. There are pluses and minuses to each.

Manual is easier to set up - no power, no alignment, just put it down, turn on the red dot finder (I'd say the red dot finder is THE most importnat purchase!) and start viewing the heavens. You will however have to keep nudging the scope to keep things in view - but that's no real hardship if your field of view is wide enough. The other down side is that you have to find things yourself. But that is a great challenge, and its a great buzz when you find something. Scope options would be a refractor on an ALT-AZ mount such as a Porta, SkyTee, or a good photo tripod such as the Horizon one stocked by FLO. Or a Dobsonian. Dobs are more aperture for money, but more cumbersome to carry around. I'd suggest going no more than 8 inch if you want your wife to be easily able to carry it.

The other option is driven, with options being goto or non-goto. There is some set up time involved with these, but I've used celestron goto alt az mounts and the set up time is only minutes. The SLT models are fine with small scopes, light and easy to use (but remember there is always a trade off between lightness and stability). I'd say the SE models are more robust. The new Skywatcher AZ goto seem quite good too. Personally I'd probably go with a refractor or a SCT rather than a Mak, but only because they are a bit more versatile.

If it was me.... I'd probably go for the goto mount with a refractor or an SCT, and a power pack from Maplins to run it (don't try batteries as the mounts are very sensitive to power drops and that makes the goto unrealiable - yes, bitter experience and nearly put me off for life!!). And a red dot finder.

HTH

Helen

PS and give her a link to SGL too so that she can ask as many questions as she wants, get all the encouragement she needs, and let us share in her discoveries too!!

[Helen]

PS from my husband's perspective its important I can manage any set up on my own so that I can put it away myself in the middle of the night after he's gone to bed

[ONSLOWE]

Although quite an inexperianced observer I have had a 200 dob recently and it hardly got used, very good optics and a bit of a bargain but difficult to store and quite heavy to move for your wife I imagine. I found the bearings none too smooth on the base though there are fixes available. I fitted a Wixey gauge and degree circles to help find objects but it was hardly grab and go when I had to move furniture to extract it from the living room. I also had an Eq mounted 102 refractor, loved the scope but found the Eq mount difficult to align (cannot see Polaris from my garden !!). I just nearly bought the C80 Ed (but at the last minute went for a PST solar scope due to my light pollution !) and I would have put it on an Alt /Az mount. If your wife does not get into Astro seriously it could be used as a spotting scope (also if you upgrade later), no collimation problems, easy to store, good for solar (with filter !!), good optics, easy to handle and store. One of the new Skywatcher GOTO's would also be a good bet though more set up time reqd. If you do not have a dark site (I do not) you will not see most of the objects the GOTO has in its memory and will want to concentrate on doubles, clusters, planets, moon and solar for which a refractor is a good choice. I spent £500 on manual digital setting circles years ago and could see very few deep sky objects well enough, due to light pollution, to justify the expense. Can recommend First Light Optics, very helpful and reliable for whatever you choose and at a good price. Good luck

Martin

[Empgamer]

Thanks for comments Helen. Almost everyone seems to say Dob or 130 PM and while I'm sure they are probably both best bang for buck options I'm just not so sure as a first choice given our circumstances. I'd like the first scope to be nice/good/useful enough for her to keep so figure a more portable (with potential daytime use as an option) might be the better choice with the purchase of a larger Newt (Dob or EQ) later to extend the hobby. At first I suspect there will be more interest in planetary viewing to which the SCT/refractors seem to do better at. Otherwise I may end up getting a 130pm and selling it on to get a 150 or 200 whereas a portable would likely be kept.

Any suggested rigs?

[Helen]

I think that your logic is right, get something now that is small, neat and easy, and you can keep it as a grab and go scope if you decide to get a larger scope later. I got back into astronomy after buying a small refractor (only 66mm) and keeping it set up on a photo tripod in the corner of the dining room ready for those breaks in the clouds (zero set up time!). I'd had a larger scope for a while, but the thought of the set up time often put me off...

So, I'd say either:

a refractor like the celestron 80 - on a silly special deal from FLO at £219 http://www.firstlightoptics.com/proddetail.php?prod=celestron_c80ED_ota&cat=49 with either a heavy duty photo tripod with a pan and tilt head if you've got one, or something like the porta or SkyTee mount. I'd give Steve at First Light Optics a call and see whether he thinks the William optic tripod would be robust enough for the 80mm scope. You'll then need a red dot finder and a star chart and book to help you find things.

or

one of the Celestron SE range, if you can stretch your budget a bit (talk to Steve at FLO to see whether an SGL discount is possible on these) then I'd go for the 5SE as I think the SCT will be better than the Mak. (If you stretch a bit more the 6SE has a great reputation!!). I'm pretty sure the SE mount has a standard dovetail on it, so it will also be possible to swap scopes. The only extra you need to start with is a power pack, I'd say.

If you need extra eyepieces and that later on then look on here for great second hand bargains

Helen

[timetraveller]

hello empgamer

could i suggest you have a look at this its a great first scope very easy to use and very portable but with good optics and can be used at a later date as a guide scope or leave as a grab and go http://www.firstlightoptics.com/proddetail.php?prod=SW127SupaTrakAUTO just needs the addition of a dew shield and powerpack and all set to use

regards Pete

[dweller25]

Hello,

I would advise to either hang on until you are more sure what you want or to buy a 150mm Dobsonian.

The 150mm Dob is very portable and will give great views - it's a good general purpose scope at a very good price - well within your budget.

If you decide to get something better later you can always keep the Dob as a quick setup option.

Best of luck.

D25.

[themos]

There is an absolutely wonderful bargain on at the moment, the Celestron C80 ED refractor. I am pretty sure it would keep its value should you want to move on or up. The only problem is you'd have to find a separate Alt-Az mount for it. I am tempted to buy one myself.

http://www.firstlightoptics.com/proddetail.php?prod=celestron_c80ED_ota&cat=49

[dweller25]

Timetravellers suggestion would also be an excellent option but they out of stock at the moment.

[themos]

Oh, I see Helen has just recommended the C80 as well, I hadn't seen that when I wrote my post above.

[timetraveller]

only the goto's version is currently out of stock the skytrak is still available or was as of saturday when i spoke to steve regards Pete

[Empgamer]

Thanks Onslowe.

I did nearly hit the 'buy' button on the Skyliner 200 thinking that it was simple to use and good quality views and they do seem to get rave reviews and "I use the 200 Dob more than any other" comments. But it is that portability thing that concerns me and whether the size etc will be off putting.

I think it is likely down to the SCT C6

http://www.telescopesplus.co.uk/moreinfo.php/Telescopes/Discounted_Celestron_Telescopes/Celestron_C6-S_(XLT)/3502

or the C80 on either the HQ 5 or a good Alt Az

http://www.telescopesplus.co.uk/moreinfo.php/Telescopes/Discounted_Celestron_Telescopes/Celestron_C80ED-R/3498

[EA2007]

Hello........

I'll insert my opinion to the long list;

I would personally go for a dobsonian, seems as though its your first purchase (I assume), its extremely easy to use, portable (especially the foldy down ones), good aperture size suitable for luanr, planetary and deep sky work. AND if you or your wife doesn't get into it then you haven't wasted money on a hi-tech setup. Alternatly, later on you may find you want to upgrade, simple just whack the OTA on an EQ mount and bobs your uncle, or roberts your mothers brother

HOWEVER.....

An EQ mouted scope is far better in the long run and with FLO offering the Celestron C6 Schmidt on a CG-5 mount along with the ED80 refractor for the same price (which is way under your budget) then I would consider this, especially given you can add motors to it at a later date!

Then, there is the other option of buying a Celestron C6/8 Newt. on the CG-5 which is just under £500 and has GO-TO built in. I know from experience that their goto system is very good, it also gives you the option to add things on later. However, this may take some time setting up.

But then there is the subject of 'ease of use'. A dob would be the easiest to use, followed by a fork arm mounted scope (you mentioned the NexStar 4SE, I had this scope and it was very useful and easy to use, but there are better setups for your money), then theres a manual EQ setup, followed by the goto-EQ's.

If you don't mind telling your wife your buying her a scope then consult her on what she would prefer, after all you dont want to be in her bad books!

[russ]

I'm normally straight in with a dob recommendation but not this time.

I would go with one of Helen's suggestions tbh. The C80-ED on the Vixen Porta would be a great grab'n'go setup. Easily moved around fully setup. C80 cools quickly and requires no maintenance. The 80ED is a very capable telescope and under good skies (which you have) would provide some memorable views. It's lunar performance is staggering, planetary surprisingly good and under the good skies the deepsky will be satisfactory.

Failing that Helen's other suggestion of a Celestron SE 6". A good all round scope that isn't too taxing to setup or move. Has plenty of aperture for your location. The SCT design is a good jack of all trades type scope. It has some pitfalls such as long cool down (unbelievably long from a warm house), quick to dew up and collimation may need tweaking occasionally. A dew shield and possibly dew heater would need to be factored into the price as well.

For me the small refractor on an AltAz mount nips it.

[russ]

On reflection, i'd like to scrap the idea of the 6 SE and put forward a vote either the AltAz refractor or small(ish) dob.

I re-read what i said about the SE and maybe that scope would be a little bit of a pain.

[Empgamer]

Good points EA 2007. It's down to the Dob OR I think the C6 or the C80. The latter two seem good VFM but I'm not really sure why you would choose one over the other? They do seem like good scopes on good mounts which I think is important. I would speak to her but I want this to be a complete surprise. PS: How do you get paragraphs to separate?? I've tried enter, shift/enter and alt/enter but none seem to wrk??? Looked at forum help but no joy

[Empgamer]

Thanks Rus. I'm leaning towards the C80-EDR. Looks like a cracking all-rounder. What about the C6S (XLT)

http://www.telescopesplus.co.uk/moreinfo.php/Telescopes/Discounted_Celestron_Telescopes/Celestron_C6-S_(XLT)/3502

Would that be a contender over and above the SE in the SCT category? Again seems a lot of scope and good quality mount. But as above (your post came as I was typing the above reply), why would you chose the C80 over the C6-S (XLT)???

[Helen]

Both those scopes are great deals. The equatorial mount that they both come with doesn't have a drive I think, therefore you would still have to track the stars manually (although it would be easier if the mount was properly polar aligned as you would only have to move the scope in one direction).

For me though, if ease of use and set up are core criteria, then these packages aren't the right ones. My experience was that trying to find things using an equatorial mount was very hard to start with. And if you want a quick win (particularly as a surprise) then I would say it has to be easy to use from the start. Alt Az set ups give you this.

Helen

[Empgamer]

Thanks for all the posts. Seems several others have come in between my postings too!!! Just need to fathom why the one scope over the other. I think it's down to the C80 or the C6S now. The SEs are nice but again I think money is going into the electronics esp as we go into the 6 and 8 SE. If she REALLY gets into it the 8SE and a 10" Dob might be good future purchases for birthday and next Xmas giving her three very nice scopes with all bases covered. Could potentially swap out the Dob for a straight Newt in this scenario but that's for another day.

[jgs001]

I'm with Helen. A simple AltAz mount is going to be far easier to use, the directions make sense to start with (Up Down Left and Right). I've just received my C80ED and it's a very nice beastie. The finder is a normal view one, so you should find that it's ok, or the RDF is a really good bet. The total weight is about 2Kg, so any tripod capable of carrying that load should suffice nicely. Just make sure that the extension on top isn't plastic as it will wobble like mad (I bought a Velbon, rated at 4Kg load, for my Konus Vista weighing 1.5Kg, but it couldn't cope). I recall somewhere, that Steve mentioned the Horizon has been used with gear weighing 5 Kg. I used to keep the Vista on an old Camera tripod ready to go, I could be up and viewing in under 2 minutes.

[Empgamer]

Not sure if I'm looking in the wrong place but I can't see any of those mounts on the FLO site, even with searches????

[Empgamer]

Would there be a need for a separate red dot finder too? I'll speak to FLO about this and mounts I think.