Anyone recently bought an Orion Optics VX10

[Northernlight]

Interested in an Orion Optics VX10 with 1/10pv optics and wanted to get feedback on the build quality and quality of optics from a newer model, I.e. last 2 years,

Specifically interested in the quality of the focuser and the primary mirror cell and how it hold collimation.

Cheers,

Rich.

 

[scarp15]

Hi, I expect that you will soon receive other comments, I use a VX8L and VX14. The VX8L is equipped with the current focuser supplied by OOUK. It operates just fine, holds heavy eyepieces firmly, smooth operation, I haven't really felt the need to replace it. The mirror cell's on each are very good and will hold collimation steady. Overall build quality is good, the lighter, narrower tube compared to alternatives enables ease of handling, a VX10 will be quite manageable. Both of my scopes are figured to 1/10pv wave, which is the main appeal for this brand of reflector, on a good night the images presented and contrast is quite exquisite.   

[Northernlight]

Hey Scarp,

I'm in Newcastle myself, well outskirts of shiremoor. Which area you from ?

Anyway, with regards to the stock focuser, have you tried it with imaging or are you purely visual. How does yours hold focus during a session ?

Cheers,

Rich.

[Ally8446]

I have, only this morning, collected a VX10L from OOUK. At present it is still in the car. I'll be sure to give you my thoughts at first opportunity. 

Regards 

Al 

[scarp15]

12 hours ago, Northernlight said:

Hey Scarp,

I'm in Newcastle myself, well outskirts of shiremoor. Which area you from ?

Anyway, with regards to the stock focuser, have you tried it with imaging or are you purely visual. How does yours hold focus during a session ?

Cheers,

Rich.

Hi Rich 

High West Jesmond, not so far really from you. The focuser used for visual only, it holds weighty eyepieces such as a Nagler 31mm fine. My other scope has a Baader Steel Track, replacing with one of these or a Moonlite should be plausible if you do feel the need to change. Good luck with this, it will be a graet option for taking onto dark sky trips, I hope to get out into Northumberland tonight once the rain and murk has passed, which at least according to the met is clear for a period. Let me know if you would like any more advice etc.

[Northernlight]

Hi Al,

Thanks very much, your honest feedback of the scope will be very much appreciated. Out of interest, how long did it take them to build yours ?

Cheers,

Rich.

[Northernlight]

Hi Iain,

Thanks for the feedback. I'm trying to figure out if I need to replace the focuser for imaging or if I can get away with the stock one and save a bit of money as the price sharp creeps up when you add all the extras.

£819 for scope + £115 for 1/10pv upgrade + £220 for a coma corrector, + £50 for secondary dew heater + £240 for Baader focuser + £35 for focuser base plate + £319 for cats eye collimation kit.

So the scope suddenly doubles from £819 to over £1600

[Nigella Bryant]

I use a 12inch f4 00uk Newtonian, but I've changed the focuser to a moonlight. It's is the best telescope I've ever had and I've had 8,10 and 12 inch meade scts. You won't be disappointed. My moonlight focuser is for Astro imaging and is low profile however. I do need a 2inch extension tube for eyepieces to come to focus. I have done other mods, flocked inside the tube, fitted a temperature sensor inside with outside read out and variable USB fan to primary mirror and of course the low profile moonlight focuser with Skywatcher electric focus and hitech Astro computer control of the focuser. All done bit by bit so no large outlay apart from the scope. 

[jetstream]

1 hour ago, Northernlight said:

Hi Iain,

Thanks for the feedback. I'm trying to figure out if I need to replace the focuser for imaging or if I can get away with the stock one and save a bit of money as the price sharp creeps up when you add all the extras.

£819 for scope + £115 for 1/10pv upgrade + £220 for a coma corrector, + £50 for secondary dew heater + £240 for Baader focuser + £35 for focuser base plate + £319 for cats eye collimation kit.

So the scope suddenly doubles from £819 to over £1600

My VX10 has a pretty good focuser but fell apart when obs on the ice. I found the parts, loctited them and alls well. The 200mm f3.8's focuser is a complete piece of junk and is barely working now, its a new design with a unique 1.25" adapter.

[Ally8446]

On 26/10/2019 at 13:46, Northernlight said:

Hi Al,

Thanks very much, your honest feedback of the scope will be very much appreciated. Out of interest, how long did it take them to build yours ?

Cheers,

Rich.

Hi Rich

Ok, so first impressions are as follows. 

Dob Base - The dob base is powder coated metal and while very rigid, is in fact remarkably light and can be carried with one hand. Personally I wouldn't carry with one hand but it's light enough to do so. Its azimuth movement is relatively free while still providing enough 'stiction' as to not be moved by wind. I opted for the friction brake for the ota which works very well. 

OTA - Made from rolled aluminum and very light so very easy to carry. The OTA comes with end caps for both top and bottom of tube. I found these to be rather loose fitting but once around the diameter with some black electrical tape and they're a snug fit. Focuser is low profile and solid with, as far as I can make out, no slop whatsoever. The 2" - 1.25" adapter is rather stiff to remove but may become easier in cold weather (I was indoors and had been for quite some time). Primary cell is extremely well made, in my opinion, with built in fan. Collimation screws are chunky enough for even the largest, coldest fingers and the springs appear to be substantial so I doubt they'll require uprating. 

I had to wait 9 weeks for it to be built and as of yet, it has still to see first light. I'll put a report in the observing section when I manage to get out. 

Feel free to ask any other questions. 

Regards 

Al

[Mangifigeek]

Hi

I was wondering whether I could jump onto this thread (I am a new member & bought my first telescope this year)!

I purchased a VX10 (second hand, previously unused - but eight years old). It sits on a HEQ5 PRO mount.

I have also been using a small refractor to get used to imaging.

My questions relates to coma. I do not currently have a corrector, but I was wondering whether anyone could advise on a good one for imaging on the VX10? 

I currently use a DSLR, although I may eventually go the dedicated camera route.

I think this is what is causing the issues in these photos (but I am not 100% sure).

Also, is there some sort of user group/forum for Orion Optics UK users about - or is this the best forum?

Thanks in advance, Paul 

[Ricochet]

Are those photos cropped? Can you post a full frame image? 

[Mangifigeek]

Hi Brown Dwarf,

Thanks for taking the time to take a look.

Yes they were both cropped- basically using the windows snip tool on the CR2 file.

The full frames images are attached (again using the snip tool) - possibly different ones but from the same series of photos.

I have also attached a stacked & processed version of M51, based on just a few minutes (I think about 5 minutes of stacked 45 sec images). It was probably too light to be taking them at that time (although it was midnight when the images started), but then the clouds arrived and I had to stop!

 

I have also had a look at some other ones I have taken - where it does not seem to be quite so bad (sample also attached - Ring Nebula), but is still present.

 

Please let me know if a higher definition method may help.

We have had a lot of clouds in Yorkshire recently, but next time I am able to image I will also double check my focussing - I have been using a Bahtinov Mask (visually) on a bright star.

 

 Thanks.

[Nigella Bryant]

I use a badder mk111 on my f4 OO12 Newtonian. Seems to cut coma down but haven't done a lot of imaging with the scope yet.

[Mangifigeek]

Thanks Nigella

[Northernlight]

hi, i wouldn't recommend a Baader.

I would recommend following this web page  https://www.astrofotoblog.eu/?p=856  as it makes very interesting reading.  I think the biggest issue you will have with the VX10 is the tube flexing.  If you are using a light imaging train then you might be ok, but when you start adding in heavy coma correctors and given how thin the tube is - it will likely flex and pull you out of collimation.

I looked at the VX10/12 and did my research and quickly found that it;s only really designed for visual -Also consider that the secondary is designed for visual so the imaging circle may be too small for your sensor. 

to turn this into an imaging scope - you may need to consider reinforcing the tube on the underside of the focuser and maybe buying a bigger secondary mirror.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad new, but i think this is just the reality of your situaiton.

Edited June 18, 2020 by Northernlight
update

[Ricochet]

2 minutes ago, Northernlight said:

I think the biggest issue you will have with the VX10 is the tube flexing.  If you are using a light imaging train then you might be ok, but when you start adding in heavy coma correctors and given how thin the tube is - it will likely flex and pull you out of collimation.

This could well be the problem. Looking at the full frame images above, I would say that the telescope is out of collimation. If the collimation is good when viewed through a Cheshire/colimation cap, then a large weight hanging off the focuser could pull the telescope out of collimation when in use, either by focuser sag or via flexing of the OTA tube itself.

[Northernlight]

looking at the extreme star shapes, i think it might be a combination of both the tube and flex in the focuser.  if you have nice light guide camera - check the scope colimation and then try an image with the light weight guide camera and see if your star shapes improve. if you get better star shapes then it's flex in the tube or focuser or both.

Unfortunately most people get lured by the aperture and fast optics of an Newtonian for imaging - but the reality of a imaging with a Newtonian is that is requires a purpose built scope otherwise it's just ends up being a lesson in futility.  For imaging with a Newtonian you need to consider the following 

• you need a very stiff tube to ensure that there is no flex in the tube itself
• You need a good focuser to ensure that  there is no moment in the drawtube
• Ideally you want a carbon tube to minimise and tube expansion or contraction which can change your focus as the temperature changes
• The type of coma corrector you use  maybe be determined by your tube length / focuser position
• For imaging you usually need a much larger secondary to ensure a big enough imaging circles to cover your sensor.
• An imaging newtonian needs to have a good primary mirror cell to ensure colimaiton does not shift as you move across the sky.
• You need to have a very stiff secondary spider to hold the weight of a larger secondary.
• Good quality, smooth / well figured mirrors.
• You also need to consider back focus constraints of a newtonian when selecting coma correctors.
• and whilst not essential it's preferable to have a conical mirror or to have the primary mirror masked off to reduce diffraction spikes from the clips
• Also keep in mind the tracking requirements on a mount to perform steady tracking / guiding on a big newt is a lot higher that a Refractor.

Unfortunately for the VX10 - because it is not designed as an imaging scope - then the only item from the above list that it possesses is a good primary mirror cell and maybe a good mirror. This is not to say that it's not a good scope - it's just not designed for imaging.  if you get a good one they are great for visual and planetary imaging (Sun, moon, planets etc) with light weight camera's.

I have seen posts of people spending over £1,000 trying to turn even their Orion Optics CT carbon tube version into workable imaging scopes 

If you want to do imaging - do yourself a favour and save yourself a lot of pain & time by selling the VX10.

If i was fairly new to imaging - I would recommend just sticking with a Refractor as they are hassle free and in most cases just work straight out of the box. Yes a typical 4-6 inch refractors is never going to match a newt on resolution - what people forget is that on most nights of average seeing a big newt will loose that resolution advantage, as well as having to content with much more difficult tracking on a large newt - where usually an off-Axis guider (OAG) and a good mount is required.

Also trying to image with a big newt on a Heq5 Pro is just asking too much for that mount - You would need a much more capable mount to get good tracking / guiding results.

Just my 2 cents from my own imaging experiences  having imaged with Fracs, Newts, RC's, & SCT's and apologies that this might not be what you want to hear - but trying to image with your scope on a Heq5 pro is just never going to work and will just lead to constant frustration.  So i recommend selling the VX10 and getting a second hand refractor.

Cheers,

Rich.

 

 

Edited June 18, 2020 by Northernlight

[Mangifigeek]

Thanks Rich and Richochet.

One of the reasons I asked about coma was to decide whether it was worth going down that path with this scope. So I have much food for thought and I really appreciate the frank opinions. I mainly bought the scope because it came with the mount for sale, so not too attached to it (yet, although it has been growing on me!).

I had been wondering about seeing how the scope performed with my cheap guide cam, so I will give that a go too.

Anyone want to buy a hardly used VX10? I am definitely more interested in imaging than visual.

 

Thanks again,

 

Paul

[Northernlight]

sorry for the Brutal honest approach- but i went through all the pain with a Skywatcher 200P so if i can save someone else the pain i will try my best

As  a good  comparison i recently order a custom TS ONTC 10" F4  -   The tube is 7mm thick carbon tube vs 2mm thick aluminium on the VX10 so there is no flex and virtually no expansion or contraction so the focus is remains stable all night and collimation doesn't shift under a heavy load.

Also - i ordered a conical mirror so there are no mirror clips to cause diffraction spikes and the mirror is screwed into the primary cells so it cannot move  under any circumstance, so no shifting as the scope moves across the sky.

The trouble is that if you want a good imaging newt you have to pay for it - i got a good deal and got it discounted down to £2,100

You can get Skywatcher Quattro's fairly cheap which are designed for imaging - just dont expect them to work out of the box as they will need a focuser upgrade, and some tweaking like spring upgrades etc.

Rich

 

Edited June 18, 2020 by Northernlight

[Mangifigeek]

Hi @Nigella BryantI was just looking at the photos of your set up above - it looks very impressive! Assuming that the 12 and 10inch tubes have similar flex levels it would be good to know the limited imaging results that you have obtained.

I need to think about whether to keep bumbling along with the VX10 (which is always going to be at the upper end of my mounts abilities - especially when I start using a "proper" guidescope rather than just my finderscope with an adaptor), or get another (bigger) refractor, or one of the many other options open to me (e.g. a massive upgrade to a top of the range mount and newtonian such as Rich has done).

Nice decisions to have to make.

Also Nigella - do you ever use the cooling fan on the Primary mirror, I have never actually used it?

Many thanks,

Paul

[Mangifigeek]

Also I have only used a laser collimator - I think I will get a Cheshire one too, just to be sure

Edited June 19, 2020 by Mangifigeek

[Northernlight]

Hi Paul, 

Try googling Astrobin VX10 - it's a very telling tale .   It's a good idea to check with Nigella and will be interesting to see what she comes back with.

One think it might be with doing is contacting OrionOptics and asking them to make you a focuser reinforcing plate

Rich.

[Nigella Bryant]

Hi Paul, yes I do use the primary fan before I do imaging, I've added a digital temperature gauge too. I've also modded the focuser with a moonlight and skywatcher electronic focus which helps with focus. Never noticed flexing during imaging to be honest but not done a lot up to now due to house move last November and dome only just being relocated here at my new home. I'm impressed to be honest with my 12inch Orion optics. I've had SCT 8, 10 12 and currently have a 11inch XLT too but my favourite is still the 0012.

[Northernlight]

Nigella - just for clarity  have you done any DSO / galaxy / Nebula imaging with the scope yet or have your been primarily been imaging Sun, moon, planets etc ?