Unmodified DSLR?

[Arran townsend]

Hi all, im in a decisive battle at the moment, I have a canon 1200d unmodified dslr which I have been using for my short experience at astrophotography, I want to go 1 step further and get a light pollution filter to filter out my blinding bortal 7-8 night skies. I have been researching the Astronomik CLS clip filter, but I have also come across the CCD version of that which is best for modified dslr's. What I'm thinking is, is getting the standard CLS filter worth it?, because my DSLR is unmodified and I don't want to get a filter for my camera to find my DSLR is not capable at basic astrophotography. Thoughts?? 

 

Thanks, Arran

Edited June 3, 2019 by Arran townsend

[catburglar]

The CCD version  blocks IR- which may be needed if you have a modified DSLR(although not if you’ve got the Baader modifies option from CheapAstrophotography).

 

I’m not sure if that means you can’t use it with an unmodified camera- but you certInly wouldn’t need it. If you’ve got no plans o get a modded camera- stick with the CLS, if you think you may be getting a modded cam, then I’d probably hang on and get the CLS-CCD with the modded camera.

[Arran townsend]

59 minutes ago, catburglar said:

The CCD version  blocks IR- which may be needed if you have a modified DSLR(although not if you’ve got the Baader modifies option from CheapAstrophotography).

 

I’m not sure if that means you can’t use it with an unmodified camera- but you certInly wouldn’t need it. If you’ve got no plans o get a modded camera- stick with the CLS, if you think you may be getting a modded cam, then I’d probably hang on and get the CLS-CCD with the modded camera.

I'm not going to modify the camera as I use it for daytime use aswell, do you think my unmodified dslr and the CLS filter will be a good enough setup for most deep sky objects such as galaxy's and nebulae? 

[Danjc]

I have an unmodded 1100D with a Skytech CLS.

 

 

Class 6 sky’s. 

[catburglar]

Many nebulae shine in H-alpha, so you might struggle with some of them. But for galaxies, open clusters and globular cluster- you’re not missing out too much by not modding the camera. I’ve attached a couple of pics from when I started out with an unmodded 1300D- from Bortle 5-6 skies. They’re not world beaters, but I was quite chuffed at the time.

 One final point before the pics- the Baader modification keeps normal white balance so you can still use the camera for daytime shots.

 

[Demonperformer]

Your unmodded canon is already blocking IR (and diminishing a lot of the red end of the spectrum as well!). If you have no intention of modding, then the extra IR blocking of the CCD version would just be duplicating what you already have. As such, I would make the decision based on cost ...

[Nigella Bryant]

I would look at the Idas D2 filter for your Dslr. I've been thinking of getting one. I use however a modded Canon 1000d. The D2 is a little bit more expensive but filters out led lighting which most of the UK will eventually be using so it's future proof too. 

 

Edited June 4, 2019 by Nigella Bryant

[StarDodger]

Even with the normal astro mod on these cameras, there is still one filter left in the camera that does an excellent job of blocking the UV and IR, so no need for the CCD version at all, unless you go for the full spectrum astro mod, where both filters are removed, then for imaging you would need an IR / UV blocking filter, so the one you mention would be useful..

But not sure why you would want a full spectrum mod really....so get the cheaper non CCD version..

[Arran townsend]

On 04/06/2019 at 08:01, Nigella Bryant said:

I would look at the Idas D2 filter for your Dslr. I've been thinking of getting one. I use however a modded Canon 1000d. The D2 is a little bit more expensive but filters out led lighting which most of the UK will eventually be using so it's future proof too. 

 

I've been thinking of getting a filter that battles with the led lighting, but I think they are a bit pricey to start with. Here is a single test exposure to show the skies I'm dealing with, it looks like it's mostly sodium I'm dealing with, see what you think...

[Arran townsend]

On 04/06/2019 at 08:49, StarDodger said:

Even with the normal astro mod on these cameras, there is still one filter left in the camera that does an excellent job of blocking the UV and IR, so no need for the CCD version at all, unless you go for the full spectrum astro mod, where both filters are removed, then for imaging you would need an IR / UV blocking filter, so the one you mention would be useful..

But not sure why you would want a full spectrum mod really....so get the cheaper non CCD version..

I was thinking that using my unmodified dslr won't be that good, because most online images I find are shot with an 'modified' DSLR. But seeing images of unmodified DSLR'S they look pretty good anyway.

[Arran townsend]

On 03/06/2019 at 22:56, Danjc said:

I have an unmodded 1100D with a Skytech CLS.

 

 

Class 6 sky’s. 

What telescope/lens did you use for this image?

 

[jgs001]

I have an older IDAS (not tested under the new lighting we have yet) and use it with unmodded 450d. I cannot give you any idea of the quality of my skies (although, I understand they are pretty good).

[Nigella Bryant]

32 minutes ago, Arran townsend said:

I've been thinking of getting a filter that battles with the led lighting, but I think they are a bit pricey to start with. Here is a single test exposure to show the skies I'm dealing with, it looks like it's mostly sodium I'm dealing with, see what you think...

If they're that bad I'd be looking at Lrgb imaging but that's expensive and a huge learning curve. My skies are bortle 6 so quite bad. It may be worth taking more 30 to 45sec exposures and stacking a lot more of those rather than going for 60secs plus. There isn't much difference between stacking say 60x30sec than stacking 30x60secs. Shorter exposures means the image is less affected by light pollution. I guess if sodium is your most worry then go for the cls. However it's not future proof, most council's are replacing sodium lighting with LEDs and then you'll have to buy a filter that stops that. I guess the ordinary cls filters will be difficult to sell on as more people will be looking for the led suppression filters. I guess it could be another 5yrs+ for all council's to change their lighting to LEDs but my home in Devon is now all LEDs. Just my take on things. 

[Arran townsend]

On 03/06/2019 at 23:01, catburglar said:

Many nebulae shine in H-alpha, so you might struggle with some of them. But for galaxies, open clusters and globular cluster- you’re not missing out too much by not modding the camera. I’ve attached a couple of pics from when I started out with an unmodded 1300D- from Bortle 5-6 skies. They’re not world beaters, but I was quite chuffed at the time.

 One final point before the pics- the Baader modification keeps normal white balance so you can still use the camera for daytime shots.

 

Did you use a telescope or a lens for these images?

[StarDodger]

Don’t bother with the Baader filter when having the mod, it causes star bloat, and you don’t want the colour balanced for daylight photography, that’s the whole point of the mod, you need the red shift, besides if you use a clip in CLS filter, they are designed to give really good colour balance with a modded camera, that’s how they were designed..if you have the Baader replacement filter too, you will get al sorts of odd star colours..

Edited June 7, 2019 by StarDodger

[Arran townsend]

54 minutes ago, StarDodger said:

Don’t bother with the Baader filter when having the mod, it causes star bloat, and you don’t want the colour balanced for daylight photography, that’s the whole point of the mod, you need the red shift, besides if you use a clip in CLS filter, they are designed to give really good colour balance with a modded camera, that’s how they were designed..if you have the Baader replacement filter too, you will get al sorts of odd star colours..

Ok, I'll bare that in mind for the future, for now I'm not going to modify my 1200d

[StarDodger]

57 minutes ago, Arran townsend said:

Ok, I'll bare that in mind for the future, for now I'm not going to modify my 1200d

If you do decide to mod yourself.. Remember unless you shim the sensor you cant use autofocus with a lens after the mod..this is something the pros do when you send to them for the mod..

 

Edited June 7, 2019 by StarDodger

[Arran townsend]

54 minutes ago, StarDodger said:

If you do decide to mod yourself.. Remember unless you shim the sensor you cant use autofocus with a lens after the mod..this is something the pros do when you send to them for the mod..

 

Do you know if light pollution filters fix small star deformities, I ask because I have a canon 75-300mm iii lens and using a bahtinov mask to focus, zooming all the way into my photos shows stars that almost look like an arch. Not to different the image below, I think it could be chromatic abberation, I'm unsure how to get around this or if it will affect my images.

[catburglar]

4 hours ago, Arran townsend said:

Did you use a telescope or a lens for these images?

I used a Samyang 135mm lens- typically 30-60 second exposures at F2 and ISO800

[Alien 13]

5 minutes ago, catburglar said:

I used a Samyang 135mm lens- typically 30-60 second exposures at F2 and ISO800

I am confused as to the scale of those images, did you do massive crops? and why would you crop so heavily with such a lovely widefield lens...

Alan

[StarDodger]

53 minutes ago, Arran townsend said:

Do you know if light pollution filters fix small star deformities, I ask because I have a canon 75-300mm iii lens and using a bahtinov mask to focus, zooming all the way into my photos shows stars that almost look like an arch. Not to different the image below, I think it could be chromatic abberation, I'm unsure how to get around this or if it will affect my images.

Yes, you have an issue there, looks like CA, or maybe an alignment of the lens, or should I say misalignment .. 🤔🤔

[catburglar]

37 minutes ago, Alien 13 said:

I am confused as to the scale of those images, did you do massive crops? and why would you crop so heavily with such a lovely widefield lens...

Alan

They are cropped images... There were a couple of issues I couldn’t easily fix at the time:

1. I could never get the flats sorted, so I always had complex gradients that I couldn’t seem to process out if I didn’t crop.

2. The PC i was using to process the images was a bit under specced  for the job, so it was easier/quicker to process cropped images.

I soon moved on to a modded DSLR, so don’t have many example images with the unmodded cam that are relevant to the thread.

[Alien 13]

3 minutes ago, catburglar said:

They are cropped images... There were a couple of issues I couldn’t easily fix at the time:

1. I could never get the flats sorted, so I always had complex gradients that I couldn’t seem to process out if I didn’t crop.

2. The PC i was using to process the images was a bit under specced  for the job, so it was easier/quicker to process cropped images.

I soon moved on to a modded DSLR, so don’t have many example images with the unmodded cam that are relevant to the thread.

Thanks, gradients are a pain with widefield lenses especially if you have localized light pollution.....

Alan

[Danjc]

On 07/06/2019 at 12:23, Arran townsend said:

What telescope/lens did you use for this image?

 

SW ED80 with FF/FR

[jefrs]

A CLS-CCD filter is for a modified camera with no IR filter, or an astro eyepiece camera. They can be fitted to an eyepiece and some Barlow, or the T-adaptor for the DSLR.

I have an Astronomik  CLS-CCD on a T7C guide cam, eyepiece screw-on. It made a significant improvement. The sensor lacks filters and the firmware of a DSLR. Using that filter with an unmodified DSLR produces rubbish results, a lot of colour shift.

A DSLR needs to be set up for astro and night photography. They will get rid of a lot of the rubbish which an astro cam relies on a laptop app to do. The auto WB usually works. A lot of the NR needs to be reduced (or it will remove faint stars). The contrast and sharpness needs to be fiddled with. Any auto exposure will be way off.  AF won't work on stars unless you have a Panasonic, new Olympus or Pentax.

I have the STC Clip Astro Nightscape Filter clipped into my Olympus E-M5ii. It did not make a significant difference however we are Bortal 5 going Bortal 4 but with a LED streetlamp nearby.  LED lighting is difficult to filter out. For more Bortal you may well want the heavier Multispectra filter cf (scroll down) https://shop.stcoptics.com/product/clip-olympus/

But, big but, clip-in filters are expensive, they are good where you are using a camera lens, they also shield an otherwise open sensor mounted prime on a telescope. They're also camera specific, the Olympus clip-in will not fit my Panasonic, nevermind. You may want to save the money and spend it on an astro camera for a telescope; then you also want filters.  I do mount the Olympus on the telescope or with lenses.