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LeeRich

Dare I ask ? ? another 'which' question.

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Hi all.

I was hoping I could just look through this thread and make an informed decision but the many variants of camera models out there have left me plerplext ?

So what i will do instead is explain what i would like to do and hope you experienced folk can offer a couple of suggestions for me to decide on.

I already dabble with a ccd web cam for moon and planets but i really fancy a bit of longer exposure stuff to target wider areas of the sky but as my LX90 is alt/az I appreciate my exposure time will be limited due to field rotation, so on that note what couple of cameras will suit this added interest best please ?

Bare in mind that I may at some point go EQ so a future proof camera now is preferable even if not totally required at the moment.

My budget is around the £500 mark, maybe need a lense with that to get going also?

Thanks for any info suggested. ?

Lee.

Edited by LeeRich

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Hi,

First of all colour or mono..? And then because of the limited length of exposure time you would have for individual subs, I would go for a CMOS camera as these are good with lots of shorter exposures, and there may be a few in your price range, look at the ASI range and also maybe the Altair Astro range, the Altair 183m camera seems very popular..not sure about the colour version...

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Hi Mr bucket ? 

I clearly failed explaining myself lol, I'm pretty good at that ? I was thinking a proper camera like these Canon 550  and 750 things i read here etc which I assume are colour ? I also think piggy back is what i meant but missed adding that ? 

Are the ones you suggest variants of these "traditional" looking cameras ?

And yes, I definitely want to do colour pics for things like M42 etc ?

Cheers.

Note to self.....I have no idea what a sub is so i guess loads more to learn. 

Edited by LeeRich

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You are asking about purchasing a dslr for your first imaging camera. These will be colour cameras but in order to get a good Ha image it really should be modified and this involves removing a coating/filter from the sensor. These can be purchased already modified or sent off to companies to do it for you. These can be purchased around £100-300.

You can also use a dedicated astro imaging camera and these will be more expensive but they can come with cooling with will help with calibration frames to help you get the best out of your images. These will come in either mono or colour. Mono will also need filters and ideally a filter wheel.

I would suggest buying this book as it will help you make the right choices.

 

cheers.

 

 

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7 minutes ago, spillage said:

I would suggest buying this book as it will help you make the right choices.

Cheers, I have heard many folk talk of this book so i will indeed purchase it.

And yes, DSLR, that's what I meant to add lol already this seems a lot more involved then just buying a DSLR that will give me great results as it seems modding is necessary  ?  Are there no DSLR cameras out there that do a great job out the box so to speak and that can be modded later when I get more experience?

?

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Yes of course. I would stick with a canon dslr as they are more software friendly. Even a standard dslr will give you fair results but they will require long exposure times in comparison to a dedicated ccd/cmos camera. 

canon 60da which is ready to go on abs for £350!

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This is where as a noob to DSLR astro stuff it gets confusing. I read in a post on sgl somewhere that the less zeros in a canon model the better the camera ?

So on that pretence is this 60da a better choice then what seems to be very popular in this field, the 550d and 750d ? Bear in mind I have no idea the capabilities of either or any  lol 

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The 60da is a 60d that was modified by canon for the use in astrophotography. Not really up on the models myself but up to the 450 did not have live view but there were/are still used. I used to use a 500d that was modded and really did like it.

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Lol now you've thrown live view into the barrel of complexity ?? so not all cameras show a live image of what's happening ? Meh...... ?

Edited by LeeRich

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50 minutes ago, LeeRich said:

already this seems a lot more involved then just buying a DSLR that will give me great results as it seems modding is necessary  ?  Are there no DSLR cameras out there that do a great job out the box so to speak and that can be modded later when I get more experience?

?

Yes, they will ALL do a great job out of the box. Having the camera modified to extend its sensitivity into the red will enhance it. But even without that you will get very satisfactory deep sky images.

Depending on the amount of light pollution where you live you might find a clip-on light pollution filter is helpful. These go between a Canon camera body and the lens. Be aware that with one of those you can't use some ranges of lenses.

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Thanks Pete.

So is that Canon 60da the future proof one for me or are there better canon models to consider given my price range ?

?

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20 minutes ago, LeeRich said:

Thanks Pete.

So is that Canon 60da the future proof one for me or are there better canon models to consider given my price range ?

?

Canon camera is a great way to start, but certainly not future proof.... ?

you will soon want and need a cooled camera,  most of probably started with a DSLR, then had it astro modded, and then broke the bank and bought mono cooled CCD or CMOS dedicated Astro cam... I know I did, all in the space of about 18 months... ??

Edited by LightBucket
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26 minutes ago, LeeRich said:

Thanks Pete.

So is that Canon 60da the future proof one for me or are there better canon models to consider given my price range ?

?

The Canon 60D and 60Da are quite old now and have been superseded by the later 70D and 80D models although there is no "a" version of these.

Alan

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So are the 70D and 80D the way to go ? out of interest just reading among the threads why are the 500d and 550d so popular ?

Do they do something far more complicated then my requirements ? im more confused now then when i started lol :p :D 

Edited by LeeRich

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I have a 60Da which does a pretty good job of capturing HA but latest Canon cameras are pretty good at it as well.

As you say the less numbers in a Canon camera the more advanced features it has until none ie 6D is "full frame"

I use the Meade camera bracket to piggy back it but it's not very stable with a telephoto lens so requires a bit of foam under the end,

Your main problem with Alt/Az mount will be field rotation.

Dave

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This all comes down to cost vs how much you have in the piggy bank. Yes I'm sure the 80d would be a better camera than a 60da but you need to include the cost of having it modified if wanted. The 500/550 are a great way to start at low price. Yes if this is want you want and have the money I would not waste it on a dslr but a go for mono ccd/cmos. Live view allows you to view the image live on a computer screen. This helps with focusing and framing.

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A very useful thing to have on a camera for astro use is a flip out screen, the 600D, 650D, 700D have this facility as well as the 60D series. 

Alan

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Wow ? now I'm spoilt for choice lol

So to narrow it down anything from the 60d to 80d are great investments but what are these cmos cameras all about spillage mentioned? Do these come in colour as I don't want to go down the filter nightmare at this point as i have enough to learn i reckon and do they have their own lense choices like a DSLR as one of the main reasons I want to get into wider fields is because my F10 SCT doesn't give me a big enough area with my ZWO camera I have now. Hope that made sence? 

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It might be worth looking here for an idea on using different cameras with different mounts. The newish cmos dedicated cameras allow you to take many short exposure images and get results that you would get maybe doing longer 10min ones with a normal ccd. This not only helps with tracking but also dealing with sky pollution such as satellites and planes. You dont mind throwing away a 60s exposure but hate chucking out a 10min one. Yes the come in osc (one shot colour) versions but the discussion on which is best is in my experience left alone...colour an mono both have their place but so has marmite.

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13 hours ago, LeeRich said:

Wow ? now I'm spoilt for choice lol

So to narrow it down anything from the 60d to 80d are great investments but what are these cmos cameras all about spillage mentioned? Do these come in colour as I don't want to go down the filter nightmare at this point as i have enough to learn i reckon and do they have their own lense choices like a DSLR as one of the main reasons I want to get into wider fields is because my F10 SCT doesn't give me a big enough area with my ZWO camera I have now. Hope that made sence? 

If you go on: 

www.astrobuysell.com/uk 

https://www.astrobuysell.com/uk/propview.php?view=145861

then there is a QHY183c for sale for only £550 on the second hand market. 

The IMX183 has low read noise so you can use very short exposures as might be required with your mount.  You will be able to get a lens converter here:

Within your budget that is what I would go for if you don't want a mono camera. 

Although if you did want a mono camera then Rother Valley Optics are selling the Hypercam 183m V2 for £550 new. 

If I was getting a DLSR for a first camera it would be something cheaper like a 450D, 550D or 600D I would not spend lots of money on a DSLR for astronomy as to be honest once your up at the £500 price bracket then you should be considering dedicated cameras. 

Adam

 

 

 

 

Edited by Adam J
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On 30/01/2019 at 00:13, spillage said:

It might be worth looking here for an idea on using different cameras.

Super useful site that. Cheers. 

I have a new qwandry though lol i now see where you're all coming from regarding a dedicated CCD. I just thought a DSLR would do full "constellation" shots and close ups of things like M42 as an e.g. but i see this isn't the case. 

I now agree a cheaper DSLR is in order for big sky shots like suggested here but a dedicated CCD is where it's at for anything else. 

Much reading ahead is in order, along with that book mentioned some way above.

Thanks everyone for some food for thought. I will hopefully return with what i went with when the time comes.

Cheers. ?

Edited by LeeRich
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I wouldn't say DSLRs are limited to specific targets but they do thrive when used with well matched fast optics like camera lenses or scopes like the TAK epsilon and mine is also fine doing Lunar shots with a tiny MAK too.

Alan

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Cheers Alan, 

I think in hinds sight I was expecting a high end DSLR to do everything where as like you say, they can excel at certain applications but not all so I'm going to have to decide which end i want to spend most time at and buy accordingly ?

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I am sure many will say I am wrong but spend as much as you can on a mount. This is the base of all your ap. You will live with a dslr for a good while and it will help you learn the ropes. A bad mount will just make it harder work.

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17 minutes ago, spillage said:

I am sure many will say I am wrong but spend as much as you can on a mount. This is the base of all your ap. You will live with a dslr for a good while and it will help you learn the ropes. A bad mount will just make it harder work.

It's funny you should mention that spillage because i am now contemplating buying a wedge for my LX90 as it would be a shame and waste not to set off in the right direction ?✊

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