Atik 460 upgrade??

[kirkster501]

Hi all, I'm thinking of upgrading my Atik 460 to something more modern and with a greater temp delta since the 460 struggles when it's warmer to get don to temperature.  No rush to do this and will await something good on the used market and if it takes a year for such a camera to come up then that's fine.   Would like a small pixel camera to use with my TEC140 as a galaxy/GC shooter.  What about a QSI 6120 ????

Thanks, Steve

 

[fireballxl5]

with a pixel size of 3.69µm I still like my QSI690. Used it to image M15 on Friday evening at -20°C (ambient was ~18°C iirc, image is on my 'to process' queue...)

Here's M13 taken with my Tak 150B back in May...

CS, Andy

[kirkster501]

Nice.   My Atik been struggling a bit over summer - as has everyone's of course.  Thanks for the suggestion.

[ollypenrice]

We're using a 460 in our TEC140 in warmer climes than Nottingham and I'm not finding it an issue. The Sony chip isn't like the Kodaks which really need cooling hard. Down in Spain and at a lower altitude than here I know Sara did struggle for cooling but do you think you really have a problem? You seem to have a set point temperature in mind but I never do. However, I don't use darks, just a master bias as dark, so there is no temperature to match. (A comparison of images done with dedicated darks and with bias-as-dark showed no difference.)

We'll both be getting around 0.9"PP. Personally I don't think there's much point in going for a higher resolution. When I did a comparison between TEC images at 0.9 and ODK14 images at 0.66 in the latest Astronomy Now I concluded that there was really no difference in detail resolved.

Before buying a QSI I'd check out with Atik, who've taken over the brand, what the spares and repairs situation is.

This is with exactly the same setup as you have now.

Olly

[sloz1664]

I'd have to agree with Olly on this point. I've never had an issue with the 460, such a clean chip. I image at -10 degrees, and I can keep at that temp all year round. Even with the dizzy summer temps we had in the UK. You could spend some of the "free" money on the Astrodon Oiii & Sii and complete the NB set

Steve

[Adam J]

The 460EX has the same dark current at 0c as the ASI1600 at -20c. You simply don't need to cool it that far. 

[Jonk]

Glad I found this, as I've scoured almost every TEC 140 and Atik 460 thread going to help me decide what to buy on my next big astro spend, to sit on a Mesu 200.

I think the pairing is great and the results speak for themselves.

If -20 degrees is achievable in the summer when ambient is around 20 degrees overnight then great, if not, is there any real difference at -15 degrees or even -10?

It think that it won't put me off looking seriously at this combination, but @kirkster501 if you do decide to change the camera, let me know as you may have a buyer right here!

[RayD]

Yep I had to ditch my 460 in Southern Spain due to the very high summer night time temperatures, but it works fine in the UK.  If you are struggling, the SX694 I believe uses the same sensor, but has better cooling.

[Jonk]

Sorry. mistake there - the Atik 460 can only do a delta of 25 degrees below ambient, I was thinking of the Atik one 6.0, which is 38 degrees delta.

[Jonk]

1 minute ago, RayD said:

the SX694 I believe uses the same sensor

Yes it does, but with SGP there's no native support, and apparently the Ascom driver is buggy.

If I do go down this route, then the 460 or One 6.0 is likely to be near the top of the list.

The QSI equivalent is more expensive, but now they're Atik owned anyway, will the pricing change?

[RayD]

5 minutes ago, Jonk said:

Yes it does, but with SGP there's no native support, and apparently the Ascom driver is buggy.

If I do go down this route, then the 460 or One 6.0 is likely to be near the top of the list.

The QSI equivalent is more expensive, but now they're Atik owned anyway, will the pricing change?

I use an SX814 with SGP and have no issues at all, but I suppose it could be affected by other things.  The only gripe I have is that the temperature capacity (percentage of power used) doesn't get handed over from the camera to SGP so you don't know if you are approaching or at the cooling limit.

I am about to go for another 16200 camera so my 460 will be going up for sale shortly, so if Steve's isn't going up keep your eye on the sale section as mine will be going on there.

[Jonk]

Righteo - I look at the classifieds every day, and ABS....they're too addictive!

Now if only I didn't have to order a new TEC140.....

[kirkster501]

Thanks for your thoughts folks.

I've decided to stay with the 460, certainly in the medium term.  I have done a lot of research on the sensor of this camera and it seems pretty conclusive that the chip is so clean that driving it down to -20C all year round is simply unnecessary.  A couple of times in summer I could only get it down to 0 or -2C, not ideal, but not useless either.

Also, I have seen Olly's article in Astronomy Now about this camera and scope combo.  He's convinced me to keep what I already have  

[sloz1664]

7 minutes ago, kirkster501 said:

Thanks for your thoughts folks.

I've decided to stay with the 460, certainly in the medium term.  I have done a lot of research on the sensor of this camera and it seems pretty conclusive that the chip is so clean that driving it down to -20C all year round is simply unnecessary.  A couple of times in summer I could only get it down to 0 or -2C, not ideal, but not useless either.

Also, I have seen Olly's article in Astronomy Now about this camera and scope combo.  He's convinced me to keep what I already have  

???

[kirkster501]

13 hours ago, Jonk said:

Righteo - I look at the classifieds every day, and ABS....they're too addictive!

Now if only I didn't have to order a new TEC140.....

Used TECs do not come up very often, I gave up waiting and bought mine new two years ago.  And they ain't cheap to buy new from Yuri either.  The pound has recovered against the dollar a bit but still an expensive proposition when you've factored in £1500 in import duties/VAT etc.  This keeps the used price high.  It's such an enthusiast level scope that people who buy them are in this game long term, hence, they do not come up used often as they are so good they are keepers......

You will also need the flattener  - $800 +duties (not 100% necessary but highly advisable for top level blue colour control) and the necessary adapters to make the flattener work.  I can help you with this if needed.

Kit and caboodle, mine is about a £7500 investment.

[Jonk]

Sounds good.... if I buy from astrograph I'm looking at about £8.5k today?

I also don't think that a used one will come up and given the average seeing we get I have decided against a long fl rc.

The 460 or newer One 6.0 is probably the camera to have with this scope and as we can all see the results I think it's the best combo for resolution with the skies the way they are.

[kirkster501]

17 hours ago, Jonk said:

Sounds good.... if I buy from astrograph I'm looking at about £8.5k today?

I also don't think that a used one will come up and given the average seeing we get I have decided against a long fl rc.

The 460 or newer One 6.0 is probably the camera to have with this scope and as we can all see the results I think it's the best combo for resolution with the skies the way they are.

Yep, it will be in that region somewhere.  This is a premium level scope.

And I agree, I'd pretty much resign yourself to the fact that waiting for a used one may be a long wait.  They do come up occasionally though.  Even then, prepared to shell out a lot to get one.  I would not sell mine for less than £6000 for instance, that's going to be the kind of number you'll be looking at. 

The Atik does work well with the TEC.  Here is a M13 - (work in progress and need to learn to use the TGV Denoise tool from the none linear data to remove some of the noise) - from data this summer.