Polar alignment - am I missing something?

[DaveAstro]

Hi everyone,

This is an incredible forum - so much experience and information in one place!  I've had a bit of experience of using my friend's telescopes - he has a 10" dob and what I think is a small maksutov cassegrain on a goto mount.  But having spent many hours trying to take photos holding my camera over the eyepieces, I've decided to go for it and get some kit of my own.  Was like a kid in a sweetshop when my HEQ5 synscan and ED80 refractor arrived, along with a t-ring adapter for my camera!

I'm hoping you can help me - polar-alignment - I'm fairly sure my polarscope reticule is aligned ok, but I've read a lot of posts about polar alignment, and watched a few videos.  Some of them make it sounds incredibly complicated.  Twizzling little clock-dial things, rotating the axis of the mount this way and that, trying to match tiny drawings of constellations with where the real constellations are in the sky......   

Am I significantly under thinking this whole thing, or is it as simple as this:  Once you've set up, entered your coordinates, date, time etc into the handset, it gives you a figure (time) for "Polaris position in polarscope".  Looking through the polarscope, ensure that Polaris sits on the circle in the centre of the view, at the clock position (as opposed to the figure given for Polaris HA, whatever that is) around that circle.  If you levelled your mount when you set up, and you now follow the 'polar alignment' procedure (tweaking altitude and azimuth bolts as necessary) you're probably pretty close....is that right?  And Polaris will, if you leave your mount there for a while, start to travel around the circle?

IF that's not entirely wrong, only 1 other question springs to mind - is the view through the polarscope inverted?  So when the handset tells you (for example) that Polaris position is 9.00, does that mean you put Polaris in the middle on the left of the circle (where 9 appears on a clock) or does that need to be inverted, in which case you'd need to put Polaris on the right where you'd find the 3 on a clock face?

I hope that makes sense.  And I really hope I'm not too far off the mark with this approach.  Some of those tutorials had me baffled!

Thanks for your help!  Looking forward to exploring this forum some more.

Dave

[spillage]

Hi Dave and welcome,

I will put my 10p in but other will also help. Ignore the dials, ignore worrying about it being level. If you are not using a laptop,computer download synscanitt 2.0 from the playstore for android (thats not the exact name as I do not have it to hand) this will give you all the info you need regarding time and location. Use it's polar image so you can line up your polar scope correctly.

The polar scope with have a small circle in the circle and this is where you need to place polaris. Just undo the RA clutch to rotate it as per the app and move the star into place using the bolts on the mount.

This should be fine just test with your camera and see how long you can push the exposure times before drift becomes an issue.

 

cheers

Spill.

 

Forgot to say "yes" polaris will travel around the circle and make sure you remove the cap from the mount and rotate the dec...been there done that...

[Stub Mandrel]

Before putting a polarscope screen on my mount driver, I used to use Jason Dales Polarfinder

If you have the (much better) new style reticle you can download a replacement HERE where there are instructions on how to use it with polarfinder.

[saac]

I'd agree with Spill above don't worry overly about an exact alignment at this stage. Unless you are ready to undertake long exposures with guiding then just do a rough alignment and spend more time enjoying the sky.  When I started I didn't even bother with the polar scope (couldn't be bothered keeling on cold wet ground).  I just did a rough alignment using the scope itself and a compass. Once you get more confident and itchy for getting longer exposures then you can look to refine your alignment. If you really feel the urge to spend more money then think about purchasing PoleMaster it's a great bit of kit - bit don't buy it yet there is absolutely no need.

 

Jim

 

Jim

[DaveAstro]

Fabulous, thanks Spill.  So when I've rotated in RA so that Polaris is inside the little circle that sits on the bigger circle (presumably at the clock position given by the handset), does that make that position my starting position for the mount?  It's just that there's going to be times (if I understand you correctly) where that'll see the counterweight bar up in the air and the part where you mount the scope closer to the ground.  Do I have to attach the scope and weights and use it from that position, or does getting Polaris in that smaller circle just make it easier to see when you've got the right clock time?

And thanks for the heads up on the app - I'll have a look and see what I can find!

Dave

[DaveAstro]

Thanks for the links Stub, I'll take a look at those.  That looks like it could be quite handy.

Dave

 

[DaveAstro]

Thanks Jim, no, I'm keen not to stress about this too much, though I gather you can get reasonable length subs (2ish minutes?) with good alignment, so I want to scrape as much out of the mount as possible before I start thinking about guiding etc. :-)

Dave

[spillage]

Easiest way is just get polaris in view or at least somewhere near the edge of the circle (anywhere), rotate RA so the smaller circle matches the position shown on the app. Then move polaris into the smaller circle using the bolts. The more central it is in the small circle the better the PA and the longer you can expose for.

Hope this helps.

Spill.

[DaveAstro]

Thanks Spill!  I really appreciate your help!

Dave

[saac]

AstroBaby does a good guide, you may already have seen it but here's a link just in case.

Jim

AstroBaby - Polar Ailgnment

[ronin]

Level or not is another thing where you do not need to be, but if you are and if the mount is set to 53.4 degrees (Sheffield) then polaris should rotate into view a lot easier. I am fortunate by being at almost exactly 52 so by setting the mount up level and having the head set at 52 means finding polaris is a lot easier. You would likely set it to 54 and back off fractionally.

One of those bits where you do not need to as the adjustment you make to RA and Dec will take care of it but it likely just easier to start out level. Certainly cannot harm the over all process.

I tend to throw in that if you level it then it makes people think you care a bit more and some may even think you know what you are doing a bit more.

[JemC]

1 hour ago, DaveAstro said:

So when I've rotated in RA so that Polaris is inside the little circle that sits on the bigger circle (presumably at the clock position given by the handset), does that make that position my starting position for the mount?  It's just that there's going to be times (if I understand you correctly) where that'll see the counterweight bar up in the air and the part where you mount the scope closer to the ground.  Do I have to attach the scope and weights and use it from that position,

No, Once you have polar aligned you should rotate back to the home position (which is weights down, scope pointing towards polaris) and start from there,

have a look at this video, 

 

[Filroden]

If you’re going to be imaging then forget the polar scope and download SharpCap. Its polar alignment tool takes less than 5 minutes. You put the scope in home position roughly (and I mean eyeballed) pointing north. It takes an image then asks you to rotate the RA axis 90 degrees and takes another image. It then shows you a star and a line and tells you which direction to move your alt and az bolts, continually updating the PA error until it’s excellent. Really is simple.

[MarsG76]

Does the HEQ5 have a ASPA (All Star Polar Alignment) feature?? if so than this should get you polar aligned with in a few arc minutes when repeated a few times... would be now good enough for quite long guided exposures.

To fine tune you can drift align it.

 

If you don't have ASPA, than either AlignMaster will help you get close, or you can also use PHD2 polar align function....

 

Dont worry about adjusting rings etc... its not as complicated as some videos make it out to be.

 

[DaveAstro]

Thank you all so much for your helpful replies!  I think I'm getting there.  I guess I'll know soon enough when I get (what I think is) aligned!  When I run through the polar alignment process available through the synscan handset, it doesn't seem to make huge alterations, so I've figured I must be close-ish.  It's just that the 'ish' factor can make a real difference on how many useful, decent length subs you can get, so I'll be delighted if I get it cracked.

I'll be going pretty tech-lite I guess, no laptops, software etc, so the more I can fine-tune the setup process the better.  Practice will help, I'm sure!

Thanks again for your help folks!

[spillage]

If you are just going to have a dslr and tracking mount have a look at drift align as mentioned above. PDF attached.

Polar_Alignment.pdf

[DaveAstro]

Fab, will do - thanks Spill, much appreciated.

[Donkeiller]

Personally I would give up now..

it really isn't worth the hassle.

I now leave my CG5 in the garage- where it belongs. It isn't broken, but I just can't be bothered.

Anyone Omsk me an offer?