Motorized autofocuser options for EdgeHD 8" & WO Star 71ii

[RayD]

1 minute ago, souls33k3r said:

Knowing what i know how (thanks to all of you for the great great help and i really do meant it from the bottom of my heart) i will call in IK on Monday and maybe i'll just buy the two stepper motors and the hand controller in one go and be done with this. I totally agree, bahtinov mask is an amazing tool but it requires adjusting and some times you just wanted to stay away from all this messing about and just let the software and hardware achieve best focus for you.

One more question, when calling IK, i am supposed to tell him the scopes that i have an he will sort me out with the type of brackets himself right? If so, am i supposed to say anything special for the bracket for my EdgeHD? I know you said it's standard but i am supposed to tell him the scope i've got right? 

You might need to just hang on with your Star 71 until he has the dimensions he needs from me.  They are standard but the suppliers sometimes change the focusers slightly (they did on my Esprit 100) so the standard design changes a little.  I'll have them to him Monday anyway, so you should be good to go 

[souls33k3r]

1 minute ago, RayD said:

You might need to just hang on with your Star 71 until he has the dimensions he needs from me.  They are standard but the suppliers sometimes change the focusers slightly (they did on my Esprit 100) so the standard design changes a little.  I'll have them to him Monday anyway, so you should be good to go 

Sure will sir. If you don't mind, i'll ping you a PM to find out how you getting on with your attachments and then i can order mine in one go too.

Super helpful @PhotoGav, @Davey-T, @RayD, @cfpendock & @GyCx. You lot just made me a happy chappy and answered all my questions

[RayD]

That's not to say that he may now have them, but as far as I know he hasn't as mine is on order but Peter at Lakeside is waiting for certain dims to make the bracket for the latest batch of Star 71's.

[souls33k3r]

In terms of the actual working, are these a pain to set up? 

I read it somewhere (don't hold me to it but i think it was @Davey-T) that you need to punch in some number to incorporate the backlash? 

[PhotoGav]

Not a pain to set up, but it does take a bit of work to get running smoothly. Make sure that you read the Lakeside manual and it will be a pretty easy job to get that working. As for autofocus - do you use SGP? If so, the manual is very clear about how to get that working. Yes, you need to input all sorts of numbers to make it work, including a backlash compensation figure. I can let you know what numbers I use when the obsy PC is next running, that should at least give you a starting point.

One thing that I found is that you have to define the max in and max out points for the focus travel on the Lakeside handset. To go to the total in point and the total out point on the Edge takes forever, so what I did was manually get it into rough focus, then wind it in just a few turns and set the inpoint then wind it out past the point of rough focus a few turns to set the outpoint, rather than winding it a million turns for the full focus travel. That will probably all make a lot more sense when you have the system in front of you, but remember this and come back to it at the appropriate moment!

[Davey-T]

Peter at Lakeside is very helpful and quick to respond to email queries and will be happy to advise on backlash  and step settings.

Dave

[souls33k3r]

5 minutes ago, PhotoGav said:

Not a pain to set up, but it does take a bit of work to get running smoothly. Make sure that you read the Lakeside manual and it will be a pretty easy job to get that working. As for autofocus - do you use SGP? If so, the manual is very clear about how to get that working. Yes, you need to input all sorts of numbers to make it work, including a backlash compensation figure. I can let you know what numbers I use when the obsy PC is next running, that should at least give you a starting point.

One thing that I found is that you have to define the max in and max out points for the focus travel on the Lakeside handset. To go to the total in point and the total out point on the Edge takes forever, so what I did was manually get it into rough focus, then wind it in just a few turns and set the inpoint then wind it out past the point of rough focus a few turns to set the outpoint, rather than winding it a million turns for the full focus travel. That will probably all make a lot more sense when you have the system in front of you, but remember this and come back to it at the appropriate moment!

I do not have SGP yet but i am going to buy that once the v3 comes out. Currently i have MaximDL and for everything that is holy i do not want to part ways from it only because the guiding is soooooooooooooo simple. I know i will have to bite the bullet and go with PHD2 one day but that will only happen when i move to SGP ... or maybe i still keep MaximDL for my guiding ... that would be one super expensive guiding program lol

I'm sure what you say about max in and max out point will make more sense when i have it with me but i think i get the idea. The gist if it is, just get it close to in and out focus and define those and max in and max out focus. Correct? I'm amazed how close to parfocal my Astronomik filters are any way so that shouldn't be much of an issue.

[RayD]

22 minutes ago, souls33k3r said:

Sure will sir. If you don't mind, i'll ping you a PM to find out how you getting on with your attachments and then i can order mine in one go too.

Super helpful @PhotoGav, @Davey-T, @RayD, @cfpendock & @GyCx. You lot just made me a happy chappy and answered all my questions

No problem.  I'd say just order anyway as he may even have what he needs now but not sent mine out yet.  Ian and Peter are super helpful.  Peter made me a custom lead as I didn't want it all wrapped up.  Had it in 2 days exactly the length I asked for.

Dave's will be exactly the same I should think, but it's probably just a hole in a slightly different place or something else minor.  On my Esprit, SW changed the focus shaft from 5mm to 6mm, and mine was the first of the new ones so the coupler wouldn't fit.

[souls33k3r]

3 minutes ago, RayD said:

No problem.  I'd say just order anyway as he may even have what he needs now but not sent mine out yet.  Ian and Peter are super helpful.  Peter made me a custom lead as I didn't want it all wrapped up.  Had it in 2 days exactly the length I asked for.

Dave's will be exactly the same I should think, but it's probably just a hole in a slightly different place or something else minor.  On my Esprit, SW changed the focus shaft from 5mm to 6mm, and mine was the first of the new ones so the coupler wouldn't fit.

I don't mind waiting till Monday tbh, i'll give him a call, speak to him about the different brackets that i need and confirm it as well.

Can i just ask, would i need the temperature sensor if i'm using the auto focus routine check every 90 minutes any way? 

[RayD]

3 minutes ago, souls33k3r said:

I don't mind waiting till Monday tbh, i'll give him a call, speak to him about the different brackets that i need and confirm it as well.

Can i just ask, would i need the temperature sensor if i'm using the auto focus routine check every 90 minutes any way? 

It comes with it anyway.  It's soldered to the DIN socket.

[souls33k3r]

ah ok, that's very handy then. Come on Monday, be here already! (here's me wishing my life away lol)

[RayD]

I think most imagers would typically use temperature rather than time to refocus.  If the temperature hasn't changed, or you haven't changed filter then you shouldn't need to refocus.  Anywhere between 0.5 and 1.0 degree change prompts a refocus, and focus with filter change seems to be about the norm.

[souls33k3r]

Ok, this is super useful to remember. So if the temperature sensor is already soldered to the DIN socket, then what's the benefit of buying the external sensor on the fly lead? Assuming by external sensor what IK means temp sensor unless it's completely a separate thing? 

[PhotoGav]

Just now, souls33k3r said:

Ok, this is super useful to remember. So if the temperature sensor is already soldered to the DIN socket, then what's the benefit of buying the external sensor on the fly lead? Assuming by external sensor what IK means temp sensor unless it's completely a separate thing? 

I don't think there is any need for the external sensor. I use the sensors on the stepper motor, set to refocus every 1º change - works fine.

[RayD]

You may want to measure the temperature at some point other than the focus motor, but I think it is more likely to be that the older units only used to have an external sensor?  I think the information on Ian's site may not necessarily be fully up to date also as I think the DIN sensor is a relatively new addition.  

[souls33k3r]

Sweet as. This thread has surely helped me move one step towards complete automation. 

I can't thank you guys enough

[Davey-T]

When you've more money to spend you can get a USB stick weather station that gives you temp', humidity and pressure readings 

Dave

[souls33k3r]

My bald head is the most accurate temperature sensor. My missus relies on it heavily ?

[souls33k3r]

Spoken to Ian K today (been a super busy Monday so couldn't call him on time) and asked him about when to inform him about the type of brackets i'll be needing. The conversation started (mind you, totally different experience than what i had previously ... in a far nicer way) and i told him that i've got the version II of WO Star 71 and he mentioned that there's a silver ring that will need to come out in order to slot the bracket in. This silver ring is on the dual focuser end. I really had no idea what he meant by that so he said if i can send him the pictures of my scope focuser end, he can take a look.

@RayD, how did you get on with your bracket mate?

Also then spoke to him about the EdgeHD focuser, he said that the bracket will be specially made and that it will cost me £18 extra. That got me thinking once again. @PhotoGav, do you keep the mirror locks loose on your EdgeHD all the time? What about the mirror flop? any such issues you've seen so far?

[RayD]

26 minutes ago, souls33k3r said:

Spoken to Ian K today (been a super busy Monday so couldn't call him on time) and asked him about when to inform him about the type of brackets i'll be needing. The conversation started (mind you, totally different experience than what i had previously ... in a far nicer way) and i told him that i've got the version II of WO Star 71 and he mentioned that there's a silver ring that will need to come out in order to slot the bracket in. This silver ring is on the dual focuser end. I really had no idea what he meant by that so he said if i can send him the pictures of my scope focuser end, he can take a look.

@RayD, how did you get on with your bracket mate?

Also then spoke to him about the EdgeHD focuser, he said that the bracket will be specially made and that it will cost me £18 extra. That got me thinking once again. @PhotoGav, do you keep the mirror locks loose on your EdgeHD all the time? What about the mirror flop? any such issues you've seen so far?

Yes all sorted.  It seems it is simply a case of removing the little collar that's fitted on the mark II as well as the focus wheel, so all good.  It's dead easy, and once you undo the 2 Allen screws and remove the wheel you are left with a small collar which is fixed to the focuser with another 2 screws.  Take that off and the bracket will fit.

Mine will be with me for the end of the week 

[AngryDonkey]

I just ordered and fitted a Lakeside focuser to my WO Star version II from Ian a few weeks back. The bracket will go on the high speed side of the focuser (not the dual speed side) however when you take the knob off on that side you will see that there is a smaller ring underneath which prevents the bracket from sitting flush on the body. The description from Lakeside didn't mention this extra ring (probably because it wasn't there in the first version of the scope) so initially I wasn't sure whether to remove it or not. In the end I took it off anyway as the bracket doesn't fit well with it in place and it's just some sort of adapter ring and not needed by the focuser.

[RayD]

Just to confirm as well, the collar is actually on the other end to the dual gear (single fast speed wheel end).  You fit the focuser on that side not the other 

[RayD]

4 minutes ago, AngryDonkey said:

I just ordered and fitted a Lakeside focuser to my WO Star version II from Ian a few weeks back. The bracket will go on the high speed side of the focuser (not the dual speed side) however when you take the knob off on that side you will see that there is a smaller ring underneath which prevents the bracket from sitting flush on the body. The description from Lakeside didn't mention this extra ring (probably because it wasn't there in the first version of the scope) so initially I wasn't sure whether to remove it or not. In the end I took it off anyway as the bracket doesn't fit well with it in place and it's just some sort of adapter ring and not needed by the focuser.

I think it might have been you Ian was referring to when I ordered mine then Mike.  the collar appears to just be a fillet to cover the recess in the rear of the focus wheel to make it all look nice and flush.  I suspect it also adds a bit of resilience in the event of the wheel getting knocked as it would then hit that collar rather than bend the focus shaft.

[souls33k3r]

hahaha cheers fellas. Yeah that's what i thought, any pictures that i've seen, the focuser goes in from the single speed end not the dual speed. I'll still go and take a look at my scope to make sense of everything but i do get the idea though. Will order for my WO straight away, for some reason the extra £18 for the bracket has made me feel a bit weird lol not being cheap skates here but knowing how much i've spent this year on this hobby, every penny counts  

[RayD]

8 minutes ago, souls33k3r said:

hahaha cheers fellas. Yeah that's what i thought, any pictures that i've seen, the focuser goes in from the single speed end not the dual speed. I'll still go and take a look at my scope to make sense of everything but i do get the idea though. Will order for my WO straight away, for some reason the extra £18 for the bracket has made me feel a bit weird lol not being cheap skates here but knowing how much i've spent this year on this hobby, every penny counts  

I know that feeling!! 

Here's a pic of the wheel off (see the 2 small grub screws accessed by removing the one in the focuser housing, and the plate with the 2 screws that then comes off 

By the looks of the tapped holes in the collar I suspect WO has planned for this to be used for fixing focus motors directly to it rather than using an angled bracket.