Explore Scientific Ultralight Mirror VS Skywatcher Stargate?

[Pingster]

Does anyone here have hands on eyepiece experience of both of these scopes?

Right now i have a 16in skywatcher flextube. I love it. The mirror is amazing and bests every APOs i own. I actually cant imagine how a "premium" mirror can best it.

Wanting to move up to 20in. I have two options the ES upcoming 20in or the current SW 20in.

The cost of each brand differer a fair bit, and i assume the difference is in the cost of the mirror. Or am i wrong and both brands use the same mirror manufacture to the same specs?

I would hate to go to ES becuase of the lighter weight and cheaper price but hate the mirror?

My gut ibstint is to go for the 20in goto skywatcher, but its weight is a killer, and so is the eyepiece height becuase of the extra goto.

Ive got super good eyes and and told i see stuff that normal people are never fusy about ?

[Peter Drew]

At 20" aperture and use in the UK I think the seeing conditions would level out any optical differences.  

[Chris]

1 hour ago, Pingster said:

Ive got super good eyes and and told i see stuff that normal people are never fusy about ?

Ok, don't rub it on  

If you're set on a Mahoosive 20", I'd go for the skywatcher through FLO, you'll get great service if something isn't right. I'm sure you'll get a good service from ES too, but as they are over seas and these are large heavy scopes I'd personally feel safer with FLO.

I've also heard that the build quality of the ES Dobs can be a bit questionable in places, although, this is off course down to the price they knock them out for. I suspect the build will be better with SW.  

I would hope for diffraction limited 0.8 Strehl with both mirrors.

[Ricochet]

1 hour ago, Pingster said:

The cost of each brand differer a fair bit, and i assume the difference is in the cost of the mirror.

Bear in mind that from FLO the difference between the goto and non-goto versions of the Stargate 450p is £940.

34 minutes ago, Lockie said:

I've also heard that the build quality of the ES Dobs can be a bit questionable in places, although, this is off course down to the price they knock them out for. I suspect the build will be better with SW.  

The 300/400mm ES dobs are now listed as "GENERATION II - with completely redesigned and improved construction" so it is possible the previous issues have been resolved. I've not seen any new reviews though.

[Chris]

6 minutes ago, Ricochet said:

The 300/400mm ES dobs are now listed as "GENERATION II - with completely redesigned and improved construction" so it is possible the previous issues have been resolved. I've not seen any new reviews though.

I didn't know they had revamped them, I'll check them out, thanks.

[Pingster]

Hi Peter, so do you mean in the UK the theres no more resolution gain by going from 16 to 20in and that the gain wpuld.be purely light gather power, ie brighter DSOs?

The ES are on gen 2, and ive read about the various improvements including all Alu constrcution. 

 

The new ES 20in could well be a gen 3 as such.

[niallk]

Hi Pingster,

Personally at comparable cost, I'd definitely go for a Lukehurst ultra portable type 2 deluxe with >0.95strehl mirror, and forego goto compared to the SW 500p. Or his classic design scope if you aren't transporting it alone. Push-to (eg Nexus) easily added for a couple of hundred later if required.

At one time I would have considered a 20" from The Dobson Factory in France, but no longer.  I've followed many reviews of the 2nd gen ES 16" scopes on CN - I have to say that it wasn't clear to me that the production issues had been sorted before the long delayed launch in the US.  Also, have you watched the videos of a SW 450p being assembled? (- if you are planning to transport to an observing site and set up on your own) No fuss easy setup and teardown, with fully captive components with no tools required, is important to me because I have to drive 10mins to observe.

Best of luck -Niall

[FenlandPaul]

Whenever these threads come up, my wallet starts getting very very twitchy.....

[Pingster]

On 13/08/2017 at 08:37, niallk said:

Hi Pingster,

Personally at comparable cost, I'd definitely go for a Lukehurst ultra portable type 2 deluxe with >0.95strehl mirror, and forego goto compared to the SW 500p. Or his classic design scope if you aren't transporting it alone. Push-to (eg Nexus) easily added for a couple of hundred later if required.

At one time I would have considered a 20" from The Dobson Factory in France, but no longer.  I've followed many reviews of the 2nd gen ES 16" scopes on CN - I have to say that it wasn't clear to me that the production issues had been sorted before the long delayed launch in the US.  Also, have you watched the videos of a SW 450p being assembled? (- if you are planning to transport to an observing site and set up on your own) No fuss easy setup and teardown, with fully captive components with no tools required, is important to me because I have to drive 10mins to observe.

Best of luck -Niall

Yeah ive seen the video of the stargate setup... it really appeals to me as ill keep the mirror box and rocker pernamentally setup for extra fast setup.

I wished they had made it all from aluminium. 

[Peter Drew]

On 12/08/2017 at 16:22, Pingster said:

Hi Peter, so do you mean in the UK the theres no more resolution gain by going from 16 to 20in and that the gain wpuld.be purely light gather power, ie brighter DSOs?

The ES are on gen 2, and ive read about the various improvements including all Alu constrcution. 

 

The new ES 20in could well be a gen 3 as such.

The UK conditions affect the resolution more than the light grasp, a 20" should always be better for DSO's than a smaller aperture. I have a 20" F3.5 and this can give excellent lunar and planetary images on good nights.