Just a beginner question

[serbiadarksky]

Hi,

I'm new to this forum and I'm new to astrophotography,too.

I'm about to get a Nikon D3300 with 18-55mm kit lens for beginning.

I was wondering about lenses and I was the 50mm 1.8 are so cheap.

So,my question is if I buy an D3300+50mm 1.8 lenses will they work with eq-1 motorized mount for longer exposures withouth startrails?

I don't have a big budget, all I have is money for the D3300..what can I do,I'm only 17 so I will save money to buy the 50mm 1.8 and later the eq-1 motorized mount if it can work for long exposures

And yeah I almost forget to mention that I want to photography the Milky Way at 50mm long exposures for some nice pictures (and Orion and those closer visible nebulae and nebulas in the Milky Way Center)

The D3300 have the APS-C sensor so the 50mm will work like 75mm so its better in my opinion

Thanks for help!

[Mr niall]

The 50mm won't be a huge step up from the kit lens imho, you'd get wider field with the 18mm. The big advantage of a 50mm is that it mimics the field of view of the human eye so apart from the smaller f stop I'd be inclined to hang on to my money if it's just for astrophotography. The trick is to get your mount polar aligned as closely as possible. You should be able to get 45 secs without too much trouble at those focal lengths. With my 18mm I can get almost 2 mins with no noticeable trails on a fixed mount.

but perhaps someone more knowledgeable than me could give an opinion!!

[serbiadarksky]

Just now, Mr niall said:

The 50mm won't be a huge step up from the kit lens imho, you'd get wider field with the 18mm. The big advantage of a 50mm is that it mimics the field of view of the human eye so apart from the smaller f stop I'd be inclined to hang on to my money if it's just for astrophotography. The trick is to get your mount polar aligned as closely as possible. You should be able to get 45 secs without too much trouble at those focal lengths. With my 18mm I can get almost 2 mins with no noticeable trails on a fixed mount.

So with 18mm on fixed mount you get 2min exposures w/o startrails?

And than will the eq-1 motorized work for tracking w/o star trails?

And I like th 50mm becouse of its 1.8 aperture

[ollypenrice]

It's best to forget about the idea of 'crop factor' in astrophotography. Stick to the real numbers, which are:

Focal length and pixel size which give you your resolution in arcseconds per pixel.

Focal length and chip size which give you your field of view.

Focal ratio which at a set focal length governs exposure time. (It is really the aperture size which does this but, if the focal length is fixed, the F ratio is proportional to the aperture. Each single drop in F stop halves the exposure time. When telescope focal reducers are brought into the story F ratio stops being so simple.)

I really would keep the FL short for starters. It will be more forgiving of tracking accuracy.

Fixed focal length lenses are far cheaper to make and, as a rule of thumb, work best for astronomy. Old ones, provided you can physically fit them, are often excellent value.

Olly

[gnomus]

The 50mm lenses from Nikon and Canon are cheap, but they are also good quality.  50mm was/is the 'standard (or normal)' lens back in the 35mm film days.  As such there were economies of scale.  I would take a fixed 50mm over a 18-55 kit lens any day.  

But, if money is tight, why bother with a kit?  Why not get body only?  Why not buy used?  This chap offers some used 'astro-modified' cameras.  http://cheapastrophotography.vpweb.co.uk/Available-Cameras.html  (You may have to scroll down to the used section).  Or look around this site for good used cameras.  You may find that most folks using DSLRs for astro work use Canon.  There may be some reasons why Canons are better than Nikons for astro work.  But the fact that there are more Canons around means that the software available might be more 'Canon-friendly'.  Things could have changed, of course, its been a couple of years since I did any DSLR astro work (with a Nikon).

As to mounts, if I was looking to do Milky Way (and beyond) widefield work, I would probably be looking at something like this: https://www.firstlightoptics.com/skywatcher-star-adventurer/skywatcher-star-adventurer-astronomy-bundle.html  They seem to get reasonably good reviews.  And you don't need to buy the whole kit to begin with, of course.  Once again these occasionally come up used.

In AstroPhotography, it is very easy to make the mistake of buying the wriong thing because it is a bit cheaper.  And this leads to buying twice ......  I have done this too many times, myself.     

[serbiadarksky]

Just now, ollypenrice said:

It's best to forget about the idea of 'crop factor' in astrophotography. Stick to the real numbers, which are:

Focal length and pixel size which give you your resolution in arcseconds per pixel.

Focal length and chip size which give you your field of view.

Focal ratio which at a set focal length governs exposure time. (It is really the aperture size which does this but, if the focal length is fixed, the F ratio is proportional to the aperture. Each single drop in F stop halves the exposure time. When telescope focal reducers are brought into the story F ratio stops being so simple.)

I really would keep the FL short for starters. It will be more forgiving of tracking accuracy.

Fixed focal length lenses are far cheaper to make and, as a rule of thumb, work best for astronomy. Old ones, provided you can physically fit them, are often excellent value.

Olly

The kit lenses are f/3.5 and thats produce pretty dark Milky Way pictures

[Mr niall]

1 minute ago, serbiadarksky said:

So with 18mm on fixed mount you get 2min exposures w/o startrails?

And than will the eq-1 motorized work for tracking w/o star trails?

And I like th 50mm becouse of its 1.8 aperture

Totally ignore me! I just checked and it turns out I'm not to be trusted. Yes I am getting star trails at those lengths! But you should fare much better on a motorised mount! Also, as for the 50mm - yes you go for it if it's what you like, a 50mm 1.8 is abfab lens to have in your armoury I was just thinking about your budget! Below is a 60 sec exposure of the ISS and a 4'30 sec exposure for reference on my fixed mount (both with kit lens at 18mm)

[serbiadarksky]

2 minutes ago, Mr niall said:

Totally ignore me! I just checked and it turns out I'm not to be trusted. Yes I am getting star trails at those lengths! But you should fare much better on a motorised mount! Also, as for the 50mm - yes you go for it if it's what you like, a 50mm 1.8 is abfab lens to have in your armoury I was just thinking about your budget! Below is a 60 sec exposure of the ISS and a 4'30 sec exposure for reference on my fixed mount (both with kit lens at 18mm)

Than the 50mm 1.8 and eq-1 motorized will work for me for no star trails?

Nog to long just max 1mi exposure than stacking the images.

[Charic]

I have the Nikon AF-S Nikkor 35mm 1:1.8G which is probably more of todays standard with regards to the human eye's field of view whereas the 50mm was primarily the standard set back in 35mm Film days.

Single lenses are generally preferred, but zooms are convenient. If the price is right for you, a 50mm is still a good eyepiece.

[gnomus]

11 minutes ago, serbiadarksky said:

So with 18mm on fixed mount you get 2min exposures w/o startrails?

And than will the eq-1 motorized work for tracking w/o star trails?

And I like th 50mm becouse of its 1.8 aperture

There is something called the 600 or 500 rule.  Take 500 and divide it by the focal length of the lens used.  This gives you the supposed maximum exposure time (in seconds) before you will see trails.  (So for a 50mm lens that would be 10 seconds.)  Of course, this will depend on how fussy you are.  

Also note, that you may not be able to use the lens wide open for astro work.  In daytime shots, you won't see the minor aberrations in the corners, but they will stick out like a sore thumb on astro shots - your corner stars turn into ugly 'seagulls' very quickly.  So always come down a stop or two from wide-open.  You will need to test this for yourself, of course and, once again, it will depend on how fussy you are.  I have tried untracked milky way shots a couple of times (including once from a dark sky site) - I have always been a bit disappointed.  

[serbiadarksky]

Just now, gnomus said:

There is something called the 600 or 500 rule.  Take 500 and divide it by the focal length of the lens used.  This gives you the supposed maximum exposure time before you will see trails.  Of course, this will depend on how fussy you are.  

Also note, that you may not be able to use the lens wide open for astro work.  In daytime shots, you won't see the minor aberrations in the corners, but they will stick out like a sore thumb on astro shots - your corner stars turn into ugly 'seagulls' very quickly.  So always come down a stop or two from wide-open.  You will need to test this for yourself, of course and, once again, it will depend on how fussy you are.  I have tried untracked milky way shots a couple of times (including once from a dark sky site) - I have always been a bit disappointed.  

I saw that,and the best solution was to set the f to 2.8 where the image is sharper too

[serbiadarksky]

3 minutes ago, Charic said:

I have the Nikon AF-S Nikkor 35mm 1:1.8G which is probably more of todays standard with regards to the human eye's field of view whereas the 50mm was primarily the standard set back in 35mm Film days.

Single lenses are generally preferred, but zooms are convenient. If the price is right for you, a 50mm is still a good eyepiece.

Thats why I want them the price is for me,also I like your profile picture

[gnomus]

Just now, serbiadarksky said:

I saw that,and the best solution was to set the f to 2.8 where the image is sharper too

That sounds about right, but you will need to see what your own lens is like.  If you track, of course, you will manage longer exposures.  

[serbiadarksky]

2 minutes ago, gnomus said:

That sounds about right, but you will need to see what your own lens is like.  If you track, of course, you will manage longer exposures.  

Thats what make me worried,will the eq-1 motorized track nice and accurate for only max 60sec?

[gnomus]

As I said before, I'd take a look at the Star Adventurer package.  There are plenty of reviews on You Tube you could take a look at.  

[serbiadarksky]

8 minutes ago, gnomus said:

As I said before, I'd take a look at the Star Adventurer package.  There are plenty of reviews on You Tube you could take a look at.  

I dont have money for that 

[ollypenrice]

29 minutes ago, serbiadarksky said:

I dont have money for that 

Then try what you have! It costs nothing to try. If you find it is best to use a fixed tripod just do that. There is so much to learn in astrophotography that you can begin learning even with imperfect equipment. Buying second had is always a good way to save money.

Olly

[serbiadarksky]

18 minutes ago, ollypenrice said:

Then try what you have! It costs nothing to try. If you find it is best to use a fixed tripod just do that. There is so much to learn in astrophotography that you can begin learning even with imperfect equipment. Buying second had is always a good way to save money.

Olly

I agree with the used=saved money,but my parents dont allow me that i dont know why.. :/

[ollypenrice]

9 minutes ago, serbiadarksky said:

I agree with the used=saved money,but my parents dont allow me that i dont know why.. :/

Well, I run commercial observatories and most of our equipment has been bought second hand. This has saved maybe 40,000 euros and everything works...

Olly

[gnomus]

I agree with try what you have first.  Have you done a search for 'barn-door trackers' - these are things that you make yourself and will cost pennies.

Best to save and get the right thing, rather than just what you can afford.  At your age, you have less time pressure than us oldies!!!

[Red Dwarfer]

2 hours ago, serbiadarksky said:

The kit lenses are f/3.5 and thats produce pretty dark Milky Way pictures

The f/3.5 is the kit lens at 18mm and you won`t notice much difference in brightness in long exposures with 50mm f/1.8 ...

I have both lenses ( the Canon version ) and always found the kit lens far better and sharper at f/3.5 plus you get a better wide field shot at 18mm ...

This is a quick 25 second exposure I took a couple of nights ago ( 18mm f/3.5 ISO 800 ) ... 

[Red Dwarfer]

3 hours ago, Mr niall said:

noticeable trails

On flickr they say 25 seconds is the acceptable limit on a fixed mount ... I`ve heard on the grapevine that anything over 70mm will start to show noticeable star trails too , even at shorter exposures ...

[swamp thing]

I don't do any astro imaging so cannot advise you on that, however......

Please bear in mind the following.

If you are looking at the 50mm 1.8 D (this is the cheapest 50mm lens) auto focus will not work if used on the D3300. If you only intend on doing astro imaging this is fine but bear it in mind if you wish to use the camera terrestrially as well. No Af is a pain.

The D3000 and D5000 series of camera's do not have inbuilt servos to power these older cheaper design of lenses. You will need to buy the more expensive 50mm 1.8 G version of the lens as this has its own inbuilt servo that your camera will require.

The more expensive camera's have inbuilt servos to drive these older lenses and is a better reason to buy a SH camera.  

 

 

[happy-kat]

The eq1 tripod does not the ability to polar align, so you could research and see if you could fashion a way to do this DIY or learn how to drift align. 

[serbiadarksky]

2 hours ago, swamp thing said:

I don't do any astro imaging so cannot advise you on that, however......

Please bear in mind the following.

If you are looking at the 50mm 1.8 D (this is the cheapest 50mm lens) auto focus will not work if used on the D3300. If you only intend on doing astro imaging this is fine but bear it in mind if you wish to use the camera terrestrially as well. No Af is a pain.

The D3000 and D5000 series of camera's do not have inbuilt servos to power these older cheaper design of lenses. You will need to buy the more expensive 50mm 1.8 G version of the lens as this has its own inbuilt servo that your camera will require.

The more expensive camera's have inbuilt servos to drive these older lenses and is a better reason to buy a SH camera.  

 

 

So thats mean that I cant use the 50mm onthe D3300?