New Refractor choice #DoingMyHeadIn

[souls33k3r]

Hi All,

I've been in the market for a refractor to compliment my already 8" EdgeHD scope. 

Now i think i've read just about every single detail about every single refractor scope within the £1000 budget and truth be told i'm still none the wiser here.

I initially went out to look for an ED80, but soon realised that it's a doublet and should really look at a triplet APO. Had to up my price range, started to play around with different FLs so ended up with having my heart set on a 65mm quad scope (TS, Primulace, Technosky) but then i realised that maybe 420mm FL is going to be a bit too wide so maybe i should look at a 480mm FL or even a 500mm but then i realised that i will have to get a FR/FF (because some targets won't fit which quiet understandably it won't and also my CMOS camera not going to give me flat field on the native FL)  and the FL will drop down to 380mm Back an forth i go. 

I'm still none the wiser and here are my concerns

1) SW ED80 DS Pro - Good doublet, a lot of people use them, a 600mm FL - Focuser will need to be changed. I know some of you will say i just can't go wrong there

2) SW Equinox 80ED - No longer available any more

3) Orion ED80T CF - Every retailer has pulled out on doing business with the supplier of Orion, good scope (maybe) but not great service

4) WO GT81 - To be honest that is just going to be a bit too much

5) TS Optics Photoline 80mm f/6 - R & P focuser, some who have this love it and some hate it. Mixed bag really

6) TS Optics Photoline 80mm f/6.5 - Exactly the same as (5) but with Feather Touch focuser

Please help me with this decision. I'm not limiting myself to only these scopes but ideally i would like a scope which has a good focuser that i would not want to change, good optics, good quality build and most importantly will not give me any troubles (pinched optics or even trying to troubleshoot silly mistakes)

Price range? If i can limit it to £800 that would be awesome, anything over, i will have to really think about it and only if it is "worth" every penny. Oh and i am thinking of Lakeside Focuser to go with my 8" EdgeHD, so something that will work with that focuser.

Sorry about this, i'm just too frustrated because making the right choice just isn't easy in this hobby.  

Thank you for listening. Much appreciated.

 

P.S: Sorry forgot to mention, i have an ASI1600MM-C camera

[xtreemchaos]

id have to go for the sw ed80, the focuser isnt that bad, with proper adjustment thay work fine, but I did upgrade my just for comfort " case of go fast stripes if you know what I mean" and you would have a nice wad of cash left over from your £ 800. charl.

[MARS1960]

All good scopes you have there. 

I know its only 420mm but hey, what more do you need really, except maybe the reducer giving a fast F4.8 

It would certainly be in my list and TBH i think i'm going to get one in a couple of months.

https://www.telescopehouse.com/telescopes/telescopes-by-brand/altair-astro/starwave-70-ed-triplet-apo-travel-refractor.html

[souls33k3r]

16 minutes ago, xtreemchaos said:

id have to go for the sw ed80, the focuser isnt that bad, with proper adjustment thay work fine, but I did upgrade my just for comfort " case of go fast stripes if you know what I mean" and you would have a nice wad of cash left over from your £ 800. charl.

But if you upgrade to a nicer focuser, that brings you towards a nice R&P APO triplet price range any way so why not choose a triplet?

 

14 minutes ago, MARS1960 said:

All good scopes you have there. 

I know its only 420mm but hey, what more do you need really, except maybe the reducer giving a fast F4.8 

It would certainly be in my list and TBH i think i'm going to get one in a couple of months.

https://www.telescopehouse.com/telescopes/telescopes-by-brand/altair-astro/starwave-70-ed-triplet-apo-travel-refractor.html

420, maybe livable but when adding a reducer it will drop my FL significantly which is maybe ok for some but not my thing. I can not live with a 350mm FL as an example.

How good are starwaves in general? i've been dismissing them if i'm being honest because the only series which is of something to talk about are the Altair "Wave" series. 

[MARS1960]

1 minute ago, souls33k3r said:

But if you upgrade to a nicer focuser, that brings you towards a nice R&P APO triplet price range any way so why not choose a triplet?

 

420, maybe livable but when adding a reducer it will drop my FL significantly which is maybe ok for some but not my thing. I can not live with a 350mm FL as an example.

How good are starwaves in general? i've been dismissing them if i'm being honest because the only series which is of something to talk about are the Altair "Wave" series. 

Fair point, for me it will fit nicely with my ED120.

I have no experience with them but i've heard and seen on here that owners have spoke about that particular scope with reverence.

[xtreemchaos]

the new focuser was only £120 ,brought by my son for birthday last year and ive got a triple all ready had it for near 10 years ES.

[souls33k3r]

Nice one, i will most certainly put these on the list to research on as well. I just don't know which one to go for really. It's such a mine field out there.

What would you guys see in a potential new refractor purchase? 

Anyone used Primulace Lab or Technosky? Apparently PL, Tecnosky and TS all are the same with different badges

[souls33k3r]

1 minute ago, xtreemchaos said:

the new focuser was only £120 ,brought by my son for birthday last year and ive got a triple all ready had it for near 10 years ES.

If you don't mind me asking, what focuser was this and if you had to choose it again, which focuser would you upgrade it to?

[xtreemchaos]

just the upgraded sw one, it works well it holds the weight good, its a crayford heres a pic. charl

a far as focusers go , a well adjusted cheap one is better than a bad adjusted pricey one. id probley pick the same ,its as good as a moonlite just not as prity.

[ronin]

Ask FLO when they expect the ES 80mm FCD100 APO to be available and the expected cost.
Never yet heard anything poor said against the FCD100 units, If I wanted an 80mm (ish) they are one I would look at, but I have a WO already.

Could also check out the ES web site direct.

The ES site for the UK says it is 998€ at this time so somewhat up at the top end of the bugets. I also see that the FLO site only refers to the carbon fibre version whereas the ES site is the aluminium version also.

Will ask if it has to be 80mm?

[souls33k3r]

6 minutes ago, ronin said:

Ask FLO when they expect the ES 80mm FCD100 APO to be available and the expected cost.
Never yet heard anything poor said against the FCD100 units, If I wanted an 80mm (ish) they are one I would look at, but I have a WO already.

Could also check out the ES web site direct.

To be honest, to me the numbering or the types of glass don't really matter, it is the quality and CA that i do not want to fight with. Funny you should mention the FCD100 units because i've been looking at the Orion ED80T CF as well and was trying to compare one with another. Only reason i haven't given much thought to the ES yet is because there is no price point on this bad boy yet.

[ronin]

I recall the Alu essential getting good reports, then they brought out tis FCD100, and that was sort of universally considered better, and the Essential was no slouch.

As on their site ES give a cost of 998€ so at 1.13 that is around £900 - we need a stronger £ Damn this hobby is getting costly.

I am waiting for notification of a small scope to be ready for shipping.

[souls33k3r]

1 hour ago, ronin said:

I recall the Alu essential getting good reports, then they brought out tis FCD100, and that was sort of universally considered better, and the Essential was no slouch.

As on their site ES give a cost of 998€ so at 1.13 that is around £900 - we need a stronger £ Damn this hobby is getting costly.

I am waiting for notification of a small scope to be ready for shipping.

Where i am in this hobby right now, wish i here a year and a bit ago. £££ certainly needs to get stronger or else we won't be able to buy anything (truth is, we still would lol)

With the strehl value of 0.979, you really can't go wrong with this scope now can you. 

To CF or not to CF is the question i suppose. But then why am i leaving TS out of the contenders race? Altair is another brand so many people trust. So confusing

[CraigT82]

4 hours ago, souls33k3r said:

i would like a scope which has a good focuser that i would not want to change, good optics, good quality build and most importantly will not give me any troubles (pinched optics or even trying to troubleshoot silly mistakes)

I think to get all that within your budget you should be looking at second hand... you might find an ED80 with an upgraded focuser which would probably be ideal really!  Second hand scopes usually have all the kinks ironed out, just be sure to get it from someone trustworthy!  Theres a WO GT81 on ABS there for £750, it's in spain though.

I've just been looking at imaging fracs myself (picked up a nice little WO ZS66 SD yesterday from the classifieds).  What I learnt from my admittedly brief research is:

You shouldn't underestimate the optical performance of the SW ED80.... it's often said a well designed doublet will have better colour control than a cheap triplet.

You don't need to reduce, you can get a field flattener that doesn't reduce the FL.

Beware of carbon fibre scopes, there can be associated problems with lens cells in CF scopes.

Edit: Just realised you can get the esprit 80 for less than £1000 new!

[geordie85]

This may be worth a punt if you can get it for the right price.

http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/Skywatcher-80mm-ED-Pro-Series-telescope-kit-with-case-eyepieces-accessories-/332256863395?hash=item4d5c0d64a3%3Ag%3AbkEAAOSw1BlZObXs&_trkparms=pageci%3Af43cacdc-5150-11e7-afc1-74dbd180cd42%7Cparentrq%3Aa8b9fa0315c0a9c472b7b997ffff8918%7Ciid%3A10

[ollypenrice]

There is no 'right' focal length. Whichever one you choose will be optimal for some targets and not for others. I wouldn't do too much agonizing over this. You can either crop or mosaic when necessary. You'll get a nice pixel scale across a wide range of shortish FLs with this camera.

Most of my scopes have entered my life second hand. It's the obvious way to get more scope for less money. One which would certainly tempt me at this price would be a used TeleVue 85 with flattener. It might well appear on budget.

Olly

[RichLD]

The SW ED80 - in my opinion the best bang for buck in AP. The stock focusser can be tweaked and shouldn't have any problems holding your camera etc.

Get the SW x0.85 FF/FR and a SW Autofocus and you're sorted ?

[souls33k3r]

All very great advice on SW ED80 and second hand scopes.

The only issue that i've got is that i want to have that piece of mind with my purchases that if something was to go wrong, i still have the vendor to support me. I do take very awesome care of my kit, some people don't (trust me i've seen people make a table out of their 8" SCT). 

Like olly mentioned, the only way to continue in this hobby is to go secondhand but there's always that risk involved with you trusting your money with someone elses say so that they will post the kit unless you live close by to them.

TV 85 would be something really sweet but unfortunately people do not want to part with such beautiful little thing.

Am still debating which brand to go with? Everyone's had a good or bad run with the ones i've mentioned so it's pot luck really? 

[knobby]

So ... have you decided ?

No pressure 

[souls33k3r]

1 hour ago, knobby said:

So ... have you decided ?

No pressure 

Hahahaha don't !!! I thought I had but now I'm not sure again lol still very much undecided and am exactly where I was a few days ago lol. God thing is, I'm in no rush whatsoever so am willing to listen and make the right decision, one that I won't regret.

[knobby]

Does it need to be a frac ...

Devils advocate time ...

www.firstlightoptics.com/reflectors/skywatcher-explorer-130p-ds-ota.html

www.firstlightoptics.com/coma-correctors/baader-mpcc.html

And you get pretty little star spikes for free !