Mount upgrade, tripod weight, stability?

[parallaxerr]

I feel like I'm outgrowing my current mount - a Nexstar 6/8 SE. I have an ST120 refractor mounted on it which means I'm limitied in alt to about 60°. There are ways around this using extensions and counterweights but I don't want to do that as I feel I'm at maximum acceptable vibration levels already.

In time I'd like to upgrade to perhaps an ST150 and an f11+ planetary frac, or maybe an ED120 and a mak, maybe an F8 6" frac will find it's way in there too at some point. Whatever happens, I need something more capable. I'm really enjoying my litle ZS66 on a manual alt/az for quick sessions and really enjoyed it on holiday, using a star atlas to find my way around, so I've decided to lose the goto. I'm mostly DSO hunting so high mag & tracking aren't critical but when it does comes to planetary observing, I'll have to learn to nudge smoothly (or maybe stick a 127/150 mak on the SE?).

Having sold a few astro items this week, I ordered a Celestron CG-5 2" tripod today. Whilst I have been eyeing up a Berlebach, I have to be realistic funds wise and I've read the 2" Celestron is a solid performer, often let down only by the mount fitted to it.

Can anyone tell me what the 2" CG-5 tripod alone weighs?  Extensive Google searches have failed me and I'm interested to know what the weight is compared to my current setup.

I'll be looking to put another 3kg+ on top in the form of an alt/az head with ADM saddles. The current shortlist, in order of preference, being:

1. AOK Swiss AYO II (solid favourite & the red will match my moonlite, least counterweight requirement)

2. Altair Astro Sabre V2 (nice looking machining with matching saddles, probably requires counterweights)

3. SW Skytee II (don't like white stuff and don't really like the configuration, but it's capable)

4. 365 Astronomy GIAZ (old hat now, not sure the saddles can be upgraded)

The general concensus seems to be that heavier mount/tripod makes for more stability, with people often adding weights to the tripod. I tried this with the SE but it made no difference - the single fork arm is the weakest link.

Does the AYO II on the 2" Celestron tripod sound like a reasonably future proof setup? Anyone used this combo?

[Alan White]

Interesting questions Jon.

I am looking at similar mount options, you are ahead of me as you have ordered the tripod, which I was at the point of doing also over the berlebach for exactly the same cost reasons.

I really like the AOK mount as my favoured option, looked at the Skytee earlier today at Tring Astro and I liked it a lot, but it's not Swiss engineering.

Watching the answers and what you decide upon with interest.

Good luck with your quest.

[nightfisher]

Yes the CG5 is a decent bit of kit, one item i will not part with, i would weigh it but means stripping the EQ5 of, but its heavy

The AYO is said to be very good but comes at a price, to high for me (where is that lotto win when you need it)

Maybe we should club together and design a simple but heavy duty AZ mount head and get an engineering firm to run four or 5 of

[John]

I have a Skytee II with ADM saddles at the moment and a Giro II. The Giro II is really nicely finished compared to the Skytee II but there is no denying that the latter is more stable with my largest refractor on board (130mm F/9.25).

The 2" steel tripod makes quite a bit of difference to mount stability - much more than the .25" jump from the standard HEQ5 one would imply. Counterweighting is important with the heavier payloads as well.

With the right tripod I think any of the ones you list could do the job for your current scopes and the ST 150. If the 6" F/8 arrives (which will be around the same weight / size as my 130mm F/9.25) I think the mounts will be tested much more and the Skytee might pull ahead a bit. I've not used an AYO so can't comment on those. I've owned or used the others though.

 

[Dave In Vermont]

While you're seeking the Holy Grail of mounts for your scope, there's a trick you can try: Hang a weight from under the center-area of your vibrating-tripod - say about 15" below. Though it seems counter-intuitive to add more weight to an already loaded mount, the two weights will now fight over the vibrational-frequency. The effect: They cancel each other out. About 5 - 10lbs is what I use.

I used this with an over-loaded AZ-4 mount. The vibrations at my eyepiece vanished for all intents & purposes.

All the best on your hunt -

Dave

[parallaxerr]

2 hours ago, Alan White said:

I am looking at similar mount options, you are ahead of me as you have ordered the tripod, which I was at the point of doing also over the berlebach for exactly the same cost reasons.

I was really surprised  1) to find the tripod for sale on its own, and 2) by the price

I have seen CGEM tripods for sale around the £300 mark, so the 2" @ £120 I thought was very reasonable.

2 hours ago, nightfisher said:

Maybe we should club together and design a simple but heavy duty AZ mount head and get an engineering firm to run four or 5 of

I have often thought of this. I have a machinist on my books at work and he's very keen on making telescope parts, but he's too busy making parts for me for official work business

1 hour ago, John said:

The 2" steel tripod makes quite a bit of difference to mount stability - much more than the .25" jump from the standard HEQ5 one would imply.

This is good to know John, should be considerably better than the Nexstar SE tripod. As I sit here looking at it (SE), the legs look like no bigger than 1.5", but they must be....

[parallaxerr]

2 hours ago, Dave In Vermont said:

While you're seeking the Holy Grail of mounts for your scope, there's a trick you can try: Hang a weight from under the center-area of your vibrating-tripod - say about 15" below. Though it seems counter-intuitive to add more weight to an already loaded mount, the two weights will now fight over the vibrational-frequency. The effect: They cancel each other out. About 5 - 10lbs is what I use.

I used this with an over-loaded AZ-4 mount. The vibrations at my eyepiece vanished for all intents & purposes.

All the best on your hunt -

Dave

Interesting idea Dave. I've tried adding weight attached to the mount but I suppose that would just vibrate at the same frequency. Hopefully won't be necessary with an upgrade though

[CraigT82]

The 2" CG5 tripod weights 7kg, dead on (on my bathroom scales)

[parallaxerr]

20 minutes ago, CraigT82 said:

The 2" CG5 tripod weights 7kg, dead on (on my bathroom scales)

Thanks Craig

Interesting my Nexstar SE tripod and mount weigh 9.3kg, looks like the CG5 + AYO II will only be 1kg or so heavier.

I should imagine the stiffness is not only in the weight though, but the rigidity too, which the SE lacks.

[Ben the Ignorant]

All the hollow legs in my tripods are filled with aquarium sand (large-grain and clean). Several kilos heavier, costs no more than a few bags of vegetables, lowers center of mass, unobtrusive unlike a suspended weight, invisible, and the mod is reversible. It also dampens gong sounds when you touch the tubes, the assembly feels and sounds less toyish.

[parallaxerr]

Just now, Ben the Ignorant said:

All the hollow legs in my tripods are filled with aquarium sand (large-grain and clean). Several kilos heavier, costs no more than a few bags of vegetables, lowers center of mass, unobtrusive unlike a suspended weight, invisible, and the mod is reversible. It also dampens gong sounds when you touch the tubes, the assembly feels and sounds less toyish.

Does that stop them being collapseable or do you just fill the bottom half?

[Ben the Ignorant]

Only aluminum tripods (including the one I modded for a friend), the legs slide against each other, so I can fill them up to the top. If you have less volume to fill, use a denser material like lead, it's sold in foils in some tool stores. Plus, lead dampens vibration very well because of its pasty nature.

[parallaxerr]

Well the CG5 2" tripod arrived today. Much chunkier than I had imagined, makes the Nexstar tripod look puny! Just waiting on the Ayo II now...

[nightfisher]

The CG5 is a real keeper, very solid tripod, its one item i wont be selling

[Alan White]

You really are ahead of me now.

I ordered the CG-5 tripod but it was out of stock, you had the last one!

My tripod is arriving a Friday, looks good in your pictures.

So have you gone for the AYO then from your comments I take it to be so, lucky you, really want yo know what it's like, let me know please.

[parallaxerr]

Hi Alan,

It was out of stock for me too but it only took 4 working days in the end. Good service from RVO.

Yes I've ordered the Ayo II in red  Flo site says 10-20 days back order but it's been like that for a while. I'm hoping there's and order inbound now they're the official UK dealer. Also ordered an ADM saddle while I was at it.

I'll be sure to upload pics and initial impressions.

[John]

As well as a lot chunkier the CG5 2" tripod is quite a bit taller than the 1.75" HEQ5 one. Good for refractor owners

The AYO II should do very nicely on there.

My Berlebach Uni 28 arrived a couple of days ago - another fine tripod

[Alan White]

Thanks Jon, I await the AYO and feedback, I am very tempted but need to work out how to finance it.

Thanks John for the ongoing pointer to the CG-5 tripod, I am looking forward to seeing how it adds to the AZ4 for the minute.

[iapa]

On 26/01/2017 at 16:27, parallaxerr said:

Can anyone tell me what the 2" CG-5 tripod alone weighs?  Extensive Google searches have failed me and I'm interested to know what the weight is compared to my current setup.

The AVX mount look similar, that is 18lbs. from the manual

[John]

The Celestron AVX mount uses the same tripod (different head but similar) and that weighs 8.1kg.

 

[Alan White]

My CG-5 tripod has arrived, bit of a difference to the eq5 steel tripod.

As has been said the .25" increase is not the main difference, wider spread, solid build, with the pier riser and my AZ4 head on it's a different beast indeed. 

Clear sky please for a proper try?

[parallaxerr]

Which pillar are you using Alan?

[Alan White]

6 hours ago, parallaxerr said:

Which pillar are you using Alan?

The Skywatcher 16" one, sits just right with the AZ4, probab;y be spot on with the AYO as well.
I am still sorting out my pennies and seeing if they will add up to a suitably big number on the AYO.
Yours will be great when it arrives.

 

[parallaxerr]

1 hour ago, Alan White said:

The Skywatcher 16" one, sits just right with the AZ4, probab;y be spot on with the AYO as well.
I am still sorting out my pennies and seeing if they will add up to a suitably big number on the AYO.
Yours will be great when it arrives.

 

Sounds good, I've been eyeing this one up, same thing in black. Not that I'm OCD about colour or anything!

https://www.widescreen-centre.co.uk/astronomy-mounts-and-tripods/extension-tubes-and-pillars/orion-skyview-pro-eq5heq5-telescope-mount

Going to see how the ST120 fits first though, may not be necessary until I get a larger scope.

[Alan White]

My extension riser is a black one, a white one would upset me.

That Orion one looks good.