Armoured Cable and Power Supply to Scope

[Davey-T]

When we were fitting peeps £20,000 kitchens we used to hide cooker switches and fused spurs in the cupboard then some jobsworth would come around when they sold their house and say they should all be wall mounted above the worktop.

Strangely folk weren't too keen on having rows of switches cut into their nice expensive wall tiles all with glowing neon lights so it looked like a pack of wolves if you went in the kitchen in the dark 

Dave

[SilverAstro]

7 minutes ago, RayD said:

Lol let's hope that was fed from next door 

and let us hope that next door isnt on one of the other phases !  (415v, give or take, away)

RCDs etc are not meant to stop giving one a tickle, they are meant to avoid killing one

Extension cables ( with removable plugs) dont have to be rolled up after every session, but it is advisable to switch off or unplug after each session. Indeed some can be left so long that they bury themselves in part , ,  , no dont ask !

 

[RayD]

2 minutes ago, Charic said:

Cheers RayD..............Spur........ just my terminology !

My washing machine with its 13 Amp fitted  plug  is connected to  a  wall socket  beneath the work surface, where the washing machine  sits with its associated water and waste pipes . Above the work surface there is a wall mounted fused wall switch which isolates the lower socket, and  switch itself,  is in turn, connected   to the  "sockets - ground floor"  system ( just checked the consumer unit) and if  were to test the RCD  the whole of my ground floor system should shut down, but Mrs charic is recording at present!!

My armoured cable is hard wired to the washing machines  lower socket, which now seems like a spur from the isolator switch? The Armoured cable  passes through the wall, exits above the DPM and buried for about 20 feet  entering the workshop into the consumer unit, From there I have two RCDs, Lights and RING.

Yes that sounds fine as the washing machine outlet should be a double pole breaker.  In an ideal world you would connect any outbuilding on it's own 20A or 40A MCB (depending on cable size) directly to the board, but that's not always possible.  Ring and lights off the additional board is fine, but making a ring for an outbuilding can be a little overkill as a radial is almost certainly enough.

It's a shame they've wired yours that way actually.  Good practice now would normally have the kitchen ring on it's own circuit, so if you have a lamp go, which with RCD's can take out the breaker, it doesn't take out the kitchen with the fridge etc.  Conversely you can change appliances without shutting down the whole house.  Doesn't really matter and isn't a compliance issue, it's just how most split load units are populated now.

[RayD]

5 minutes ago, Davey-T said:

When we were fitting peeps £20,000 kitchens we used to hide cooker switches and fused spurs in the cupboard then some jobsworth would come around when they sold their house and say they should all be wall mounted above the worktop.

Strangely folk weren't too keen on having rows of switches cut into their nice expensive wall tiles all with glowing neon lights so it looked like a pack of wolves if you went in the kitchen in the dark 

Dave

Yep know what you mean there Dave.  They all have to be accessible now, so all switches and fuses above, and outlets only can be under.  Looks awful if like my old Mum you have separate fridge and freezer and dishwasher.

It would be nice if they could agree a set of rules and just stick to them!!  Aaargghhhhhh

[Charic]

6 minutes ago, RayD said:

radial is almost certainly enough

Correct.......that's what I have.
You can tell who the sparky is?

Thanks again

[Charic]

On 1/4/2017 at 16:20, AlistairW said:

............minimise set up time................

Still thinking of burying a cable?

[Starlight 1]

I am still useing a fire made in 1937 with wire coved in coton.you lot scare me reading this.

[RayD]

1 minute ago, Starlight 1 said:

I am still useing a fire made in 1937 with wire coved in coton.you lot scare me reading this.

It's probably safer than some of the rubbish made nowadays!

[SilverAstro]

This house has one RCD at the input, where it comes through the wall from the meter box ,,,,, and it is a right pain when a fault throws it ! everything goes pitch black ( the nearest street light is miles away ). Much 'oww' 'gerroff' 'who moved the torch' ensues.

For 40y now I have been meaning to take off a lighting cct and reasign the sensitivities

One of these days, a tuit,  'cept that now I'll need a 'man' to do it for me cos although I have IEEptIII and CEIptII I believe I am nolonger considered competent do my own wires

 

[Davey-T]

9 minutes ago, RayD said:

It would be nice if they could agree a set of rules and just stick to them!!  Aaargghhhhhh

Then the folks that make up the rules and print all those expensive books would be out of a job.

I suppose we should think ourselves lucky we didn't have to change all our sockets to match the round German ones 

Dave

[Charic]

3 minutes ago, Davey-T said:

change all our sockets to match the round German ones 

lol.......check out their toilets too, I nearly sat facing the wall the first time round? but that's another thread

[RayD]

3 minutes ago, SilverAstro said:

This house has one RCD at the input, where it comes through the wall from the meter box ,,,,, and it is a right pain when a fault throws it ! everything goes pitch black ( the nearest street light is miles away ). Much 'oww' 'gerroff' 'who moved the torch' ensues.

For 40y now I have been meaning to take off a lighting cct and reasign the sensitivities

One of these days, a tuit,  'cept that now I'll need a 'man' to do it for me cos although I have IEEptIII and CEIptII I believe I am nolonger considered competent do my own wires

 

Yes it seems some sparks are so nervous now they are throwing in 10mA RCD's where they should really be using 30mA.  With the smaller ones a blowing lamp such as a filament, halogen or Dichroic can often take the trip out, which unless you have a split load will take out the whole house.

Unfortunately now no matter how qualified you are, you can't connect, test or certify, and unless you know the spark and he trust you, you won't even be able to do the cable runs.

[Davey-T]

11 minutes ago, RayD said:

Unfortunately now no matter how qualified you are, you can't connect, test or certify, and unless you know the spark and he trust you, you won't even be able to do the cable runs.

Depends how much you pay him 

Also helps to run the cables yourself then you don't end up having to replace half the floorboards and unwrap the cables from the central heating pipes 

Dave

[SilverAstro]

10 minutes ago, RayD said:

 won't even be able to do the cable runs.

Then that's all changed since ,,  last time I looked I could do the installation anywhere and have it approved by a sparkes , except the kitchen and bathroom,

I contended way back then when they started this nonsense and still do now, that it leads to a proliferation of extension cables and cables off of cables and three ways off strips and a right ol'hazzard to shipping and no aid to safety at all. But I'm just a dinosaur  

 

[RayD]

Just now, Davey-T said:

Depends how much you pay him 

Also helps to run the cables yourself then you don't end up having to replace half the floorboards 

Dave

Yes definitely true.  But all above board of course guv 

To be honest I'm glad I don't get involved in it now as it's all changed so much. 

It was actually interesting working with the sparks at my Mums as some of the newer regs were a total eye opener for me.

[RayD]

1 minute ago, SilverAstro said:

Then that's all changed since ,,  last time I looked I could do the installation anywhere and have it approved by a sparkes , except the kitchen and bathroom,

I contended way back then when they started this nonsense and still do now, that it leads to a proliferation of extension cables and cables off of cables and three ways off strips and a right ol'hazzard to shipping and no aid to safety at all. But I'm just a dinosaur  

 

Yep all changed now.  You can't do anything at all in a kitchen, bathroom or outbuilding.  If it's a new circuit with cabling anywhere else, the whole cable route has to be visible for inspection, so you couldn't chase and fill or run cable in conduit and then get a sparks to certify as he can't verify the route.

You can adapt an existing circuit outside kitchen, bathroom and outbuilding by way of changing socket outlets and light switches etc. but you can't change the circuit.

I can't personally see how it's fully enforceable, and I think that's why they brought in Part P so that any evidential mods when selling a house must be accompanied by a registration.

Good or bad?  Who knows, I'm sure it'll change again before long, it always does.

[SilverAstro]

All very interesting , thanks y'all, it has reminded me to check the torches, candles and matches. 3 torches - non were in their rightful places !

and the three 50m extensions going every which way in the garden have been unplugged   !

 

[Davey-T]

5 minutes ago, RayD said:

It was actually interesting working with the sparks at my Mums as some of the newer regs were a total eye opener for me.

Yes all sorts now, sockets have to be way off the floor in case there's a flood even if there is no chance of the place ever being flooded.

The silliest job we ever did was on a council estate that had metal door and window frames and we had to connect them all with a PME and the radiators.

I'm glad I'm retired too 

Dave

[SilverAstro]

2 minutes ago, RayD said:

I can't personally see how it's fully enforceable,

I'm sure it'll change again before long, it always does.

Yes me neither, I was going to say something to that effect, but would take too long

Yep, and psssst, if you dont tell about that replacement cooker cable over ther , then I wont neiver, ok pal ?

[RayD]

1 minute ago, Davey-T said:

Yes all sorts now, sockets have to be way off the floor in case there's a flood even if there is no chance of the place ever being flooded.

The silliest job we ever did was on a council estate that had metal door and window frames and we had to connect them all with a PME and the radiators.

I'm glad I'm retired too 

Dave

Extraneous conductor?  Nah, lets earth everything, including the metal toilet roll holder, just to give it potential and make sure you can get a belt off absolutely everything!! 

[Davey-T]

2 minutes ago, RayD said:

Extraneous conductor?  Nah, lets earth everything, including the metal toilet roll holder, just to give it potential and make sure you can get a belt off absolutely everything!! 

Made people jump when the stainless steel sink came live but it satisfied some reg' at the time.

Also worked in a block that appeared to have no earth on some circuits and it turned out it was originally wired in singles in iron conduit that was used to ground everything and stuff had been added but not earthed 'cause there wasn't one, they'd relied on the face screws earthing the original sockets but that was all right because they had 4 screws in them 

If this thread drifts any more the mods will be moving it to non astro 

Just to mention I'm sitting in front of my 40 year old gas fire with back boiler that would be condemned out of hand if a gas engineer clapped eyes on it 

Dave

[RayD]

1 minute ago, Davey-T said:

Made people jump when the stainless steel sink came live but it satisfied some reg' at the time.

Also worked in a block that appeared to have no earth on some circuits and it turned out it was originally wired in singles in iron conduit that was used to ground everything and stuff had been added but not earthed 'cause there wasn't one, they'd relied on the face screws earthing the original sockets but that was all right because they had 4 screws in them 

If this thread drifts any more the mods will be moving it to non astro 

Just to mention I'm sitting in front of my 40 year old gas fire with back boiler that would be condemned out of hand if a gas engineer clapped eyes on it 

Dave

Yes sorry mods, it has stayed on the electrical theme, just to emphasise the recommendation of not doing it yourself when it comes to outside power supplies (or sitting in front of 40 year old gas fires) 

[Davey-T]

Just now, RayD said:

Yes sorry mods, it has stayed on the electrical theme, just to emphasise the recommendation of not doing it yourself when it comes to outside power supplies (or sitting in front of 40 year old gas fires) 

It's allright as long as no one closes the door 

Dave