Which imaging scope? ED80 or 130 pds?

[Moon-Watcher]

Hi my friends,

I have read alot about the ED80 and 130pds.  Both have good write ups.  But is the (relatively cheap) 130 really as good as the much more expensive ED 80? - I understand that price is not ALWAYS a guide to quality...

Also if the Skywatcher Evostar 80ED DS-Pro is better, what about the Skywatcher Esprit 80 ED PRO Triplet?

 

Cheers,

Mark

P.S.  Please, no abreviations.  I am an absolute beginner...  

[lensman57]

Hi my friends,

I have read alot about the ED80 and 130pds.  Both have good write ups.  But is the (relatively cheap) 130 really as good as the much more expensive ED 80? - I understand that price is not ALWAYS a guide to quality...

Also if the Skywatcher Evostar 80ED DS-Pro is better, what about the Skywatcher Esprit 80 ED PRO Triplet?

 

Cheers,

Mark

P.S.  Please, no abreviations.  I am an absolute beginner...  

What is it you want to do? You seem to jump from a £160.00 scope to one costing nearly £900.00.

A.G

[Chris]

If you're completely new to telescopes then maybe the ED80 will be better as you don't have to worry about collimation. (Collimation just means making sure the optics are alligned correctly by tweaking some screws). You don't usually have to worry about this with refractors.

The 130pds is 'faster' than the ED80 (F5 vs F7.5). This just means you collect data about twice as fast with the 130pds. 

Reflectors like the 130pds are just cheaper than refractors inch for inch (reflectors are cheaper to make).

Refractors are easier for a beginner and they don't give diffraction spikes on images like a reflector does. Some people like spikes and some don't.

I'll leave someone else to talk about chromatic aberration which is why some people pick triplet apos over ED doublets as I'm trying to feed a baby with one hand and type with the other

[Moon-Watcher]

I'll leave someone else to talk about chromatic aberration which is why some people pick triplet apos over ED doublets as I'm trying to feed a baby with one hand and type with the other

And I've been told only women can multi task!  Thanks for info

Mark

[Moon-Watcher]

What is it you want to do? You seem to jump from a £160.00 scope to one costing nearly £900.00.

A.G

I thought the clue was in the forum's title...

Part of my enquiry should be read as:  Is the Esprit ed80 THAT MUCH better for the price (for imaging)?  People have raved about the 130p as much as people rave about the esprit ed80, yet the difference in cost is huge.  If the 130pds is THAT good, why go for the Esprit?

Cheers,

Mark

[MattJenko]

The Esprit is a fast scope, at F5 and has better colour correction than the ED80. This comes at a price. For starting out, it will not be a limiting factor in imaging results.

As for the choice between the ED80 and the 130PDS, both give about the same field of view (ED80 larger), and the 130PDS is certainly faster as mentioned. The 130PDS will require a little TLC to get it to perform as well as some of the 130PDSs creating the amazing images on here show on SGL. The ED80 will simply do what it does day after day without the need for adjustment (other than a probable focuser tighten). Both require some extra glass - the 130PDS may well require a coma corrector and the ED80 benefits enormously from the dedicated flattener/reducer, which is not cheap either. If you are on a budget, then the 130PDS can certainly deliver. I just love the refractor and the ease it provides.

[Chris]

(Babies are fed now )

Yes it's amazing but the 130pds is as fast and as well colour corrected as the Esprit at a fraction of the price. The refractor will give a bit better contrast and slightly tighter stars plus no star spikes and collimation worries. It's up to the individual to decide if that's worth the extra 700 odd pounds.

The ED80 is a good compromise between the two.

There are also some good little ED66 and ED70's about sub 300 pounds which are not quite as well colour corrected as the ED80 but are a bit faster at f/6. might be worth a look  

[lensman57]

I thought the clue was in the forum's title...

Part of my enquiry should be read as:  Is the Esprit ed80 THAT MUCH better for the price (for imaging)?  People have raved about the 130p as much as people rave about the esprit ed80, yet the difference in cost is huge.  If the 130pds is THAT good, why go for the Esprit?

Cheers,

Mark

Well the first step is to define what is " better ". The performance of a scope can not just be defined by its optical performance. Other factors come into it such as quality of the mechanics, the optical tube, the focuser etc. 130 PDS is certainly capable of imaging at a high level in the hands of an experienced imager who is prepared to put in quite a bit of effort sorting the scope out. It will not function out of the box to the same  level of an ED let alone an Apo. In its favour is a reasonably fast F5 and a lack of colour fringing due to the way a mirror focuses the rays of different wavelengths. The bad points are the flimsy construction, a less than ideal focuser as these are made to a price, possible problem with balance due to the tube length , collimation and coma. Diffraction spikes are subject to personal taste and they are acceptable on some targets and not on the others.

The ED 80 is a very popular choice as a first imaging scope, it has optics which have no right to be on such a cheap scope as it can rival some no so hot triplets. The FOV is versatile so a large range of targets are within reach using a DSLR and it functions straight out of the box. The bad points are a relatively slow F ratio and a less than ideal focuser but it is functional.

I can not comment on Esprit 80 as I do not own one and have not seen many images taken with one either but from the specs it seems to be a very high quality scope in a very competitive sector of the market. None of the above scopes are suitable for planetary imaging or galaxy hunting which was the point of my question in my post.

As to if a scope is better than the other or is £700.00 cost difference justified I am afraid that  is not answerable. Does a Takahashi FSQ 85 at nearly £5000.00 fully loaded perform that much better than an offering from APM or Astrophysics or even the Esprit 80 is subject to an individuals choice and priority. If you want scope for life then the cost of TAK , APM , Televue and the likes is justified but for a hobby that might just be passing fancy then you have to make your own mind.

A.G

[StargeezerTim]

My two pence worth,

I am a newcomer and have been using the 150 pds. Don't know if there is any difference between the 130 and 150 pds apart from the size of the mirror. I have enjoyed getting to grips with my scope and find that collimation with a laser collimater takes about two minutes. I think that it is good learning experience being involved in the fiddlier stuff!

My experience is that the scope and mount are just the start! Once you start getting decent photos, you will want to perhaps update your camera, go for guiding, etc etc etc. Some of these are large expenses, e.g. guiding, but even with that,things like filters, brackets etc seem to be an ongoing expense.nothing seems to less than £30.... (just ordered a light pad to help with flats...another £28...10% off so delighted!)

I don't know anything about other scopes, but the pds range is well regarded, is optimised for astrophotography (focusing should be a breeze...) and if you go for the cheaper option, you may have more to spend on the other stuff that you will quickly learn you need, or should it be 'want'.

Whatever you go for, enjoy it and stick close this these forums. people are mostly really helpful and supportive. Tim.

[Uranium235]

If I were starting out again, I would take the 80ED - then get the 130pds (or other reflector) once you are familiar with all aspects of imaging - and the problems you are likely to encounter. (my route was newt> frac> newt) 

However, you havent mentioned in the OP whether you already have a suitable mount, since without that you may as well be imaging through the bottom of a beer bottle

Edit: Although, some have taken the plunge, gone straight for the 130 - and done quite well. I guess it depends on whether you are comfortable with tinkering and collimation, some run away screaming, while others can get a bit obsessed with it all!

[Chris]

+1 for what Rob said, the mount is number one when it comes to prioritising funds for astrophotography.

It might be worth another thread for the mount if this hasn't already been sorted out and decided?  

[Moon-Watcher]

Thanks Tin an AG.

Hmm...  From what I can gather so far:  Reflector = Spikes in the image.  ED's = works straight out of the box.  If (IF!) I had the money, an Esprit may be the way to go.  An ED80 is a good compromise between the two and is excellent for imaging Galaxies etc and Planets.

At the end of the day, it really is all about taste...

Cheers,

Mark

[Moon-Watcher]

However, you havent mentioned in the OP whether you already have a suitable mount, since without that you may as well be imaging through the bottom of a beer bottle

Hi Rob,

That's a good point.  I recently bought an EQ5 pro Skyscan thingy.  Got a bit brain fuddled when the guy was explaining it (and showing how it works) to me, but I knew it was a good mount, so bought it anyway.  I had the intention of buying a 200PDS, but after advice in SGL, bought the 200p Dobsonian.  (The EQ5 mount comes in three boxes, man!)

Cheers,

Mark

[lensman57]

Hi Rob,

That's a good point.  I recently bought an EQ5 pro Skyscan thingy.  Got a bit brain fuddled when the guy was explaining it (and showing how it works) to me, but I knew it was a good mount, so bought it anyway.  I had the intention of buying a 200PDS, but after advice in SGL, bought the 200p Dobsonian.  (The EQ5 mount comes in three boxes, man!)

Cheers,

Mark

EQ5 is a good mount, I really enjoyed mine while I had it. It should have no problem with either the 130PDS or the ED80 with all the gear . I used to use mine with a twin scope rig.

A.G

[Moon-Watcher]

Hi AG,

The guy I bought the EQ5 off had a big twin scope thing going on.  He updated to an EQ6 and I bought his EQ5.

But first, I want to get the hang of my 200p Dob.

All good stuff.

Cheers,

Mark

[Uranium235]

The EQ5 will (comfortably) support nothing bigger than either the 130 or 80ED when combined with a finderguider to lower the overall weight. (yes, i know it can support a bit more if pushed, but we want to make things easy)

I'd reckon that with your mount, the maximum imaging payload is about 7.5kg (similar to a CG5). The lower you can get beneath that figure, the better the mount will perform. Remember to take everything into account (camera etc...), just pop it all together then put it on some digital bathroom scales to see where you stand weight-wise.

The 80ED and a 9x50 finderguider + CCD (314L+) and reducer weighed in at just over 5kg, if I remember rightly.

[MattJenko]

and is excellent for imaging Galaxies etc and Planets.

A little caveat here. It is excellent for imaging the larger targets and the larger galaxies. Planets will be a little small and the little fuzzy galaxies will be just little fuzzy galaxies as it simply does not have the focal length for that kind of imaging. 

[Uranium235]

A little caveat here. It is excellent for imaging the larger targets and the larger galaxies. Planets will be a little small and the little fuzzy galaxies will be just little fuzzy galaxies as it simply does not have the focal length for that kind of imaging. 

Well spotted there.... the 80ED is many things, but it certainly aint a galaxy scope (barring M31, M33, Bodes, and the odd few galaxy clusters).

It can do some planetary visual work, but thats only when its been barlowed to death.

[Uranium235]

Just fished out a direct comparison, the 80ED has nearly an extra hour exposure (but its slower at f6.38). And as you can see, both telescopes are more than capable of producing a decent image:

130pds, Atik 383L+, 2 hrs Ha/OIII:

80ED, 383L+, 3 hrs Ha/OIII:

Swings and roundabouts really   Whether you choose the 80 or 130, either one is a winner.

[Chris]

DSO imaging and planetary imaging are chalk and cheese.

If you decide you want to do mainly DSO imaging it's important to keep the focal length short to reduce tracking errors over the long exposures required, both the ED80 and 130pds are around 650mm which is reasonably short.

If you decide you want to do planetary imaging then very long focal lengths are better for image scale and you basically film the planet at say 60 frames per second therefore tracking isn't so critical with these short exposures. Something like an SCT, or Maksutov telescope of around 5-8" would be a better scope for planets to begin with, but the mount woudn't be so critical.

Maybe its best to decide which camp you would like to focus on to begin with? 

[MattJenko]

What glorious wispy goodness both those images are. I don't know that I would have revisited if I managed such a corker first time round

[Moon-Watcher]

A little caveat here. It is excellent for imaging the larger targets and the larger galaxies. Planets will be a little small and the little fuzzy galaxies will be just little fuzzy galaxies as it simply does not have the focal length for that kind of imaging.

So, 130p or esprit for general imaging?

Damn, this whole thing is involved!

Cheers,

Mark

[Moon-Watcher]

Just fished out a direct comparison, the 80ED has nearly an extra hour exposure (but its slower at f6.38). And as you can see, both telescopes are more than capable of producing a decent image:

Swings and roundabouts really   Whether you choose the 80 or 130, either one is a winner.

Thanks my friend.  This was the PERFECT post

Very happy

[MattJenko]

So, 130p or esprit for general imaging?

Damn, this whole thing is involved!

Cheers,

Mark

The Esprit and 130PDS are not great little galaxy hunters and planetary scopes either. As Chris said a few posts back, if you are after larger DSOs (and there are a lot of them), then any of these scopes works wonders. If you want smaller galaxies and the planets, then much longer FL scopes are in order, like an SCT, Mak or RCs! You are right, the whole thing is indeed involved!

[Chris]

So, 130p or esprit for general imaging?

Damn, this whole thing is involved!

Cheers,

Mark

Both the above scopes are best suited to DSO imaging. Would you like to focus on DSO's or Planets? I you would like one scope for both then we need to find some kind of compromise on focal length and aperture, something like a 150pds maybe?

Ideally you would want something like an ED80 for DSO and an 8" SCT for planets.