Pros and cons of mounting a dslr directly onto a Baader Hyperion ep?

[Gomtuu]

Thanks, Mark - I'm a little surprised! My BH 8mm lens (one of the heavier ones) weighs in at about the same at 370g (measured roughly), so it seems the zoom doesn't carry a weight penalty.

Sorry to bombard you with questions, but does the zoom really require the special Baader Zoom barlow lens, or can I use it with any standard 1.25" barlow? I suppose that also raises the question of what if you want 3x or 4x etc.?

Many thanks

Tony

I only have the zoom so I can't compare with single eyepieces, but I'm told that the penalty with the zoom is that there is a slight loss in image quality. I have nothing to compare with so I don't know, but I am certainly happy with the quality I get from the zoom and you don't have to keep swapping eyepieces!

I don't know if other Barlows will fit the zoom, but as the the Baader x2.25 will apparently fit other EPs with standard filter threads, I can't see why not. Perhaps somebody else out there has experience of this?

[Ant-33]

I only have the zoom so I can't compare with single eyepieces, but I'm told that the penalty with the zoom is that there is a slight loss in image quality. I have nothing to compare with so I don't know, but I am certainly happy with the quality I get from the zoom and you don't have to keep swapping eyepieces!

I don't know if other Barlows will fit the zoom, but as the the Baader x2.25 will apparently fit other EPs with standard filter threads, I can't see why not. Perhaps somebody else out there has experience of this?

Thanks, Mark. Your image looks great, so I'm sure the image quality of the zoom is pretty good. What I was wondering was whether the zoom can be used with a standard barlow instead of the special one that's made for it - It's hard to imagine any reason why it couldn't be used with a standard barlow, but I could easily be missing something.

Cheers

Tony

[lonebod]

This might help

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&ei=w_6ZU7eRC4WMO8jrgMgP&url=http://www.baader-planetarium.com/pdf/hyperion_brief_description_e.pdf&cd=4&ved=0CD4QFjAD&usg=AFQjCNECLFehfgdAK1fU_9WzNtG-XDiGUA&sig2=UN-Qnis-VSEfbgfkXPrknQ

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

[RikM]

Pentax XW eyepieces also have a thread under the eyecup for camera attachment. I can't remember the thread type and have never tried it myself.

[davefrance]

Moon shots using Skywatcher 80ED, Baader Hyperion 5mm,  43mm/t2 adaptor, t2 ring and Canon D600. Thin wispy cloud 7 June 2014. No processing apart from turning them right way up (as seen from earth that is  )

Pics on top line probably had one fining tuning ring on but cannot remember which one, probably 14mm but cannot be sure.

 

 

[pixelsaurus]

My GSO 30mm CPL 2" eyepiece not only comes with a T2 adapter thread but also, as I recently discovered, a built-in 50mm extension tube. I discovered this after I bought a cheap set of extension tubes. All I need now is some fine weather to try it all out. I'm not sure I would want to hang my older Pentax K10D body off this as it is rather heavy, however a Nikon D5100 looks like it might fit the bill.

[Tinker1947]

This is the adapter 42/43mm, Pentax are another EP that has the 43mm thread......

 http://www.firstlightoptics.com/baader-planetarium/baader-hyperion-eyepiece-t-adaptor-m43-t.html

[Ant-33]

This might help

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&ei=w_6ZU7eRC4WMO8jrgMgP&url=http://www.baader-planetarium.com/pdf/hyperion_brief_description_e.pdf&cd=4&ved=0CD4QFjAD&usg=AFQjCNECLFehfgdAK1fU_9WzNtG-XDiGUA&sig2=UN-Qnis-VSEfbgfkXPrknQ

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

That's quite an informative document - I hadn't seen it before. Thanks for the link.

Pentax XW eyepieces also have a thread under the eyecup for camera attachment. I can't remember the thread type and have never tried it myself.

That's good to hear. I just checked them out, and they look pretty pricey, but it's always good to know.

Moon shots using Skywatcher 80ED, Baader Hyperion 5mm,  43mm/t2 adaptor, t2 ring and Canon D600. Thin wispy cloud 7 June 2014. No processing apart from turning them right way up (as seen from earth that is  )

Pics on top line probably had one fining tuning ring on but cannot remember which one, probably 14mm but cannot be sure.

Nice pictures - great clarity and focus. I really need to give this a try

My GSO 30mm CPL 2" eyepiece not only comes with a T2 adapter thread but also, as I recently discovered, a built-in 50mm extension tube. I discovered this after I bought a cheap set of extension tubes. All I need now is some fine weather to try it all out. I'm not sure I would want to hang my older Pentax K10D body off this as it is rather heavy, however a Nikon D5100 looks like it might fit the bill.

It seems there are more eps with threads for t-2 adaptors than I realised. It still seems more common not to include the feature, but it's good to know which ones do.

This is the adapter 42/43mm, Pentax are another EP that has the 43mm thread......

 http://www.firstlightoptics.com/baader-planetarium/baader-hyperion-eyepiece-t-adaptor-m43-t.html

Yes, I have one of these - I just haven't put it to the test yet. It looks good, though, when you assemble the ep with the camera.

I'm now putting in my vote to have our clear skies back

Thanks, everyone, for your helpful, informative replies. As always, SGL Rocks!

[Astral Enigma]

I've found and bought the adapter to fit my DSLR onto my SCT through my 10mm Hyperion eyepiece - I already had the T ring etc to connect the camera direct so I decided that, for very small extra outlay, it gives me an option to experiment with. It may produce great results and it may not - I'll almost certainly get a proper barlow too (3x XCel LX or 2.5x Powermate in the running - though I found a 3x Televue barlow too for a lot less and know nothing about them...)

My question is how to calculate what level of magnification this gives me - i.e. what would it equate to in barlow terms? I'll be using it on my 9.25" SCT, which is f/10 and 2350mm long, the Hyperion is 10mm. Is that what I need to work out the equivalent magnification it should produce with my DSLR or do i need anything else - and can someone tell me the formula? Thanks!

When I've had a chance to try it, I'll post my thoughts.

[pixelsaurus]

I've found and bought the adapter to fit my DSLR onto my SCT through my 10mm Hyperion eyepiece - I already had the T ring etc to connect the camera direct so I decided that, for very small extra outlay, it gives me an option to experiment with. It may produce great results and it may not - I'll almost certainly get a proper barlow too (3x XCel LX or 2.5x Powermate in the running - though I found a 3x Televue barlow too for a lot less and know nothing about them...)

 

My question is how to calculate what level of magnification this gives me - i.e. what would it equate to in barlow terms? I'll be using it on my 9.25" SCT, which is f/10 and 2350mm long, the Hyperion is 10mm. Is that what I need to work out the equivalent magnification it should produce with my DSLR or do i need anything else - and can someone tell me the formula? Thanks!

 

When I've had a chance to try it, I'll post my thoughts.

http://www.saguaroastro.org/content/formulas.htm

[JamesF]

http://www.saguaroastro.org/content/formulas.htm

The difficulty that you run into when attempting to use these formulae with an SCT is that the focal length is only known at a specific position of the mirror, which isn't itself generally known.  Without empirical measurement therefore, it's impossible to know the actual focal length at all.   This happens because you're using at least two optical components together (the primary and secondary, which unlike the secondary of a newt is not flat).  The effective focal length of the entire optical system depends not only on the focal lengths of the components, but also the spacing between them.  The same is true, for exactly the same reason, of Maks.

By way of an example, if I put my 450D straight onto the visual back of my 127 Mak using a T-adaptor, the Moon (or Sun) just fits on the frame.  If we said that it creates a 13mm high image on the sensor, that would make the focal length about 1400mm, not the quoted 1500mm.  If I move the camera back 50mm the image won't even come close to fitting in the frame when it's in focus and the effective focal length is probably nearer 1750mm.  The optical components aren't changed in this process.  It's just that the primary mirror has been moved to get the image to focus at the new camera position.

James

[RikM]

When imaging, 'magnification' is an irrational term because the image can be viewed at almost any size on almost any sized screen. If you want more magnification, just zoom in a bit on the image.

[Astral Enigma]

I promised to update with my thoughts after I'd had a chance to test the Hyperion adapter, so here they are.

I had a chance on Monday  to try the projection imaging technique with the conversion ring with my Hyperion 10mm eyepiece onto my DSLR, and tried it with both scopes. Whilst the skies were clear-ish, they were far from great - hazy and wobbly! 

I aimed the 6" SCT at Saturn, got it nicely centralised with the 25mm eyepiece and then the 10mm for good measure and let it track for a few minutes and it was still pretty central, at least as far as the eye could tell. Attached the Hyperion EP with the adapters onto the DSLr, switched to LiveView and couldn't find anything. I tried re-focussing, many, many turns in each direction, but still couldn't find anything. I took a handful of shots anyway at different exposures and checked them on the PC next day - all were completely black. I did go back to the just the EP afterwards and Saturn was still central in the EP, so it wasn't that it had drifted away. So that experiment failed.

Next day (Tuesday night) was possibly marginally better seeing and I started an hour earlier, so Saturn was a bit better positioned, so I repeated the same steps but this time with the 9.25" SCT. All started off looking very much the same but eventually I found Saturn after turning the focus pretty much as far as it would go one way (don't remember which way!), however it was very dim. Nevertheless it was possible to adjust the position as it was not quite central (very close though) and took another handful of pics at different exposures.

Looking at those yesterday, whilst it was clearly Saturn, they were far from great, and no better than a digitally enlarged photo taken without the Hyperion acting as a barlow. At that point I concluded that this approach probably wasn't going to be one worth persuing.... For anyone thinking about it, I'd also say that getting the conversion ring off of the T-ring adapter is also a nightmare - you've got a milimetre or two to try and get hold of and it's really awkward!

I'd also tried a few daytime shots of a flagpole quarter of a mile away that afternoon, both with the Hyperion EP as a 'barlow' and without, from which I'd say (just looking at the images on the PC screen at native size) that a 10mm EP, at least on my 6" SCT, gives 2.5x magnification. The Saturn images looked about 2.5x bigger too but a lot smaller to measure.

Given all of that - the difficulty focussing even when I could find an image, awkwardness of the adapter, and the fact that it seemed to give a 2.5x magnification, then I'd do better getting a decent 'proper' barlow instead. So I've taken the adapter back and somehow allowed myself to be persuaded that that the sensible option is really the one I probably should have considered in the first place, a 2.5x Televue Powermate.... (costing more than 10x the price). But that should crack the focussing problem and give good optics, or so many people seem to say.

Now I just need a clear sky before Saturn has gone, to see if there's an improvement... there'd better be!!

[RikM]

Thanks for the feedback and sorry it seemed to be so much trouble. I tried afocal imaging using a compact camera and eyepiece holder back when I started and could never get the hang of it. If you are getting a 2.5x Powermate, you may find that a webcam type camera would give you better results than a DSLR due to (probably) smaller pixel size and the ability to take hundreds of frames to stack together.

[Astral Enigma]

Thanks Rik, yes a new webcam is also high on my shopping list. Currently I have a borrowed SPC900, but I'm looking at the NexImage5 or the QHY5L-II or ZWO-ASI120MC, or possibly one or two others, sometime soon. Decisions, decisions!

[Tinker1947]

This image taken a few years back i used a £5 webcam from Amazon, crushed the built in led's and removed the lens, stuck a 1.25 adpater on the front and placed it in the 10" Newt focuser, run a 1 minute video with Sharpcap and then Registax, think can be a lot better if your dedicated and spend a little more on a webcam......

[Astral Enigma]

Thanks - more for me to aspire to!

I see you use the Baader Clicklock - it's something on my 'for consideration' list. Partly because I wonder if it's a far superior diagonal to the 'bundled' Celestron ones I have and partly because of the security of and ease of use it offers - EPs not falling out because thimbscrews aren't as tight as I thought! Any views on this? Thanks

[Tinker1947]

Click-Locks are not cheap but that's all i use now, very safe and easy to use in the cold and dark.....