SW Flextube 14" or Explore Scientific 16"...?

[jetstream]

I think that there has been some improvements made in coatings over the past couple of years which is great for us.The standard SiO coating gives about 87-89% and the enhanced Al coatings 96-97%.There are lots to choose from with coatings in the 91-93% available too.Its great to see companies use the better ones now,I think Orion USA does(Synta?).These processes look very high tech,OMI offers three grades and Edmund two http://www.edmundoptics.com/technical-resources-center/optics/metallic-mirror-coatings/ It looks as if ES,SW are closing the gap in performance.

[jetstream]

Mike sorry to here that about the focuser,mine had issues once too-the little bearings came off when I was out on the ice in -25c.They were kept inside the focuser though and were rescued.The little screws that hold them on were given a "toothpicks" point of weak non hardening sealer I had and no problems since.This focuser works very well though,no play.It holds the 21mmEthos no problem,I just tweaked that Allen head bolt a bit.Can't wait for your first light with the VX10

[AlexB67]

Emad, when all is said and done, no doubt you'll have a whale of a time with a 14 - 16 inch scope watever out of those option you buy. What more can we ask for in life

Kind of offtopic I guess getting sentimental towards my scopes, but the one thing I really admire, when you consider the cheap labour over in China what they can bring us for the cash is amazing, as much as I'd love an OO one day only because I feel it is a thing for life.

All that aside these Chinese  scopes often get criticised for lack of QA issues, perhaps I have been a lucky chap, but my 10 unch flexi feels solid. When I assembled it there was not one screw that did not go in smoothly, when I took the mirror out it went in and out without effort, the mirror clips felt just right, not too over or under tight.  The mount may not be OO quality, but the OTA feels like a house on those flexis to me. Mine holds collimation extremely well andit is not as if OO are known to not come with some issues from what I gather in some cases. Hopefully, in most cases  a second hand one will have that addressed.

I feel like a proud owner with a scope that will last me for some time before that OO upgrade arrives on the future, but living with one of those China made thingies is not proofing to a bad life so far   

[Dreadz]

Not tempted by the 16" revelation? £1299 from telescope house. Room for some accessories in your budget too

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk

[emadmoussa]

Not tempted by the 16" revelation? £1299 from telescope house. Room for some accessories in your budget too

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk

Yes, I considered that. But got turned off by the height of the eyepiece...

[crashtestdummy]

I would get the 16" as the 14" isn't really a big enough bump up from your 12" but the 14" is a fair bit bigger than the 12"

I had my 12" coated with OO hilux coating(badly coated in my case-read the review) and I couldn't tell any difference so don't think a hi lux 12" is better or as good as a 14" or you are likely to be disappointed,especially when the price of the hilux coatings is the same as the aperture jump between 12 and 14 in most cases.

I bought a second hand 16" Lightbridge and modded it.you can pick them up for around £1200 but they don't come up often.mine took about 10 mins to get out of the garage and assemble which is no biggy

[faulksy]

Mike was able to collect his as he did not have a big commute, I took a chance with a courier, as the seller still had the original packaging. My scope was sold compelte with the mount, I believe that Mike purchased his in addition.

spot on there iain with those details. emad i paid £1100 for my tube only originaly he had it up for sale for £1400 but i knocked him down, it had just had the primary recoated by 00 so that is as good as new, but there was no finder and the focuser was useless. so i bought a focuser finder, then i had to buy the mount which was 500quid, but now it is awsome realy lovely to use and the optics are ace, this is with the moonlite focuser, i now have the feathertouch

[faulksy]

My opinion differs from Gerry's, for DSO's I'd always go for the biggest light grasp I could afford even if it was a standard Chinese mirror. My 16" GSO mirror is 1/6pv and 93% strehl, exactly the same mirror from OOUK would cost an extra £1000 but it would be tested so you'll know exactly what you are getting unlike Chinese mirrors.

I had to cancel meeting the lads at Dobfest this week, we would of had Dans 14" SW, Mikes 14" high grade OOUK, my 16" Sumerian, Calv's 18" Nichol with high lux and Steves monster 20" with standard coatings. Now that would of been an interesting comparison!

shame you cant join us today mike

[emadmoussa]

spot on there iain with those details. emad i paid £1100 for my tube only originaly he had it up for sale for £1400 but i knocked him down, it had just had the primary recoated by 00 so that is as good as new, but there was no finder and the focuser was useless. so i bought a focuser finder, then i had to buy the mount which was 500quid, but now it is awsome realy lovely to use and the optics are ace, this is with the moonlite focuser, i now have the feathertouch

Lovely scope.  However, .I'm a bit dubious I will notice a lot of difference between the OOUK and, say, a Skywatcher Flextube. Is the coating worth the extra ton of bucks? I have hard time believe it is - unless of course I was blown away by what the OOUK can do.

I'm happy to invest in such a scope if everything was included (mount, dual speed focuser & finder) for around £1500...otherwise I'll find it financially unjustifiable. And why on earth the mount is worth £500?!! almost the price of an HEQ5

Did you have the chance to compare it with - as Alex puts it - run of the mill Chinese mirror?

[emadmoussa]

Don't rule out Orion USA either. Their truss dobs are also great!

As I see you want manual with no GoTo, you could look at the XX14i as well.

http://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p3567_Orion-SkyQuest-XX14i-IntelliScope-14--f-4-6-Truss-Dobsonian-with-Object-locator.html

I personally always liked the construction of that one better than the SW ones. Especially since the base is also easy to completely dissassemble / reassemble. Making it even more compact for Storage / Transport.

I also think the default supplied EP's are better. A 35mm widefield and 10mm, instead of the SW standard 25mm and 10mm.

But I Guess you still saved your "better" EP's and / or buy better ones quickly anyway. But still.

What I also like is, that you can get a Complete transport case set for these truss dobs for easy and safe transport to dark sites and star parties. Not cheap, but still a nice option to have.

I really like this video. The guy just relaxing with setting up the 14inch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LCvHx_skIs

I had a look at these, they are very nice indeed. In fact for me personally they're more practical and manageable than the Explore Scientific Dobs, but the issue stems from the fact I still need to take things apart and put them back together again. What I found very great about the Skwatcher Flextube Dobs is that they become smaller without the need to take anything apart...and knowing me and how awkward I am, it's s safer bet. However, I'm still comparing the pros and cons of all...let's see.

[emadmoussa]

I would agree, that is what my calculation had indicated but it was a quick job and that is not to say I am right, but what I believe to be the case. I've never even looked through one of the things that size.

With that mirror you got a nice sample there too Mike, that helps, I would be chuffed to bits considering their cost    , but even with the 1/4 PV assumption, which is sort of to be the common believe as an average for those scopes, the 16 inch china made inch would win over the research grade 1/10 PV 14 inch I feel for fishing out faint fuzzies, just not by as much as it would be if all things were equal , reflectivity, strehl, etc.

Gerry, coming back to the reflectivity I think 88%  is not a bad value for a used average Chinese made mirror from what I read, but the Hilux one will also degrade over time and not deliver that 97% , it will just degrade much less quickly, so as times goes on, a 5 year old GSO or synta would probably perform worse in comparison to a Hilux OO. I think John told me this once as well, new the synta ones are in that 92 - 94 range  IIRC, and the GSO explicitly advertise similar figures in many places.

As Mike said, Emad, get to a star party and ambush a few people to look through theirs

Tell me about it - I'm all over the place now. Ah well, I've got a couple of months to decide and it's nice to see what other people's experiences are/were.

[Naemeth]

My opinion differs from Gerry's, for DSO's I'd always go for the biggest light grasp I could afford even if it was a standard Chinese mirror. My 16" GSO mirror is 1/6pv and 93% strehl, exactly the same mirror from OOUK would cost an extra £1000 but it would be tested so you'll know exactly what you are getting unlike Chinese mirrors.

I had to cancel meeting the lads at Dobfest this week, we would of had Dans 14" SW, Mikes 14" high grade OOUK, my 16" Sumerian, Calv's 18" Nichol with high lux and Steves monster 20" with standard coatings. Now that would of been an interesting comparison!

+1

The priority should be on getting the biggest aperture you can (providing you can use it!), and then worry about optical quality if you have extra £££.

Work out a limit, say 24", then if you have spare funds get a better mirror - best of both worlds .

Emad, it's the 16" you should go for by the way .

[emadmoussa]

+1

The priority should be on getting the biggest aperture you can (providing you can use it!), and then worry about optical quality if you have extra £££.

Work out a limit, say 24", then if you have spare funds get a better mirror - best of both worlds .

Emad, it's the 16" you should go for by the way .

I think the best way to see the ES 16" in flesh and have a little play. Great aperture for the price, but I'm still concerned re the practicalities of assembling and all that...

[AlexB67]

+1

The priority should be on getting the biggest aperture you can (providing you can use it!), and then worry about optical quality if you have extra £££.

Work out a limit, say 24", then if you have spare funds get a better mirror - best of both worlds .

Emad, it's the 16" you should go for by the way .

For DSO work, and as you say as long as you feel happy with the size and handle it without getting frustrated the bigger the better. I think it if I were a regular planetary observer I don't think I would myself just bite at the largest aperture necessarily, I would pick a smaller aperture, longer f ratio, the OO VX12L would be a better option in that case I feel with a high grade mirror, refractors aside of course, another whole story, but for Dobs    As a good all round performer a VX12 with high grade optics would actually be a very good choice I feel.  I think Emad largely wants it for DSO though if I am not mistaken. 

Of course, we want the best of everything as you say, why not a VX16 high grade to put the high grade 14 inch versus standard grade 16 inch discussion to bed

[emadmoussa]

For DSO work, and as you say as long as you feel happy with the size and handle it without getting frustrated the bigger the better. I think it if I were a regular planetary observer I don't think I would myself just bite at the largest aperture necessarily, I would pick a smaller aperture, longer f ratio, the OO VX12L would be a better option in that case I feel with a high grade mirror, refractors aside of course, another whole story, but for Dobs    As a good all round performer a VX12 with high grade optics would actually be a very good choice I feel.  I think Emad largely wants it for DSO though if I am not mistaken. 

Of course, we want the best of everything as you say, why not a VX16 high grade to put the high grade 14 inch versus standard grade 16 inch discussion to bed

Yep, DSO is my aim. Planets are only for the Mrs.

[emadmoussa]

Does anybody have the Meade Lightbridge 16"? Height of eyepiece from the ground? How heavy to move around?

[cotterless45]

The 10" is bad enough. Lightbridges are delightful to transport and use, but lugging the halves around is a pain.

What you want

What you really want is a

6" frac,

Nick.

[emadmoussa]

The 10" is bad enough. Lightbridges are delightful to transport and use, but lugging the halves around is a pain.

What you want

What you really want is a

6" frac,

Nick.

I used to have a 6" frac...and will get it back at some point. But for DSO I need 12" plus .... 14" or 16"

Yeah, I was looking at the Lightbridge, and they even have the same focuser problem as the Skywatcher, the difference is the Skywatcher seems better built and cheaper and for the money you save you can always upgrade the focuser...

[todd8137]

Get the 16" takes me about 15 minutes to set mine up ,I reckon they all need to be checked for colamination every use so bigger the better ,if you get the 14" your going to be thinking about the 16" all the time with the flex tube at some point one side is going to get wear more than the others plus the 16 can be left just about set up you will not regret the 16".

Eps

Ou will get by with the ones you have but plossls will not cut the mustard after a while so keep,that in mind you will need mid/ high grade eps but if you had the 12" am sure your eps wil be fine

Pat

[emadmoussa]

Get the 16" takes me about 15 minutes to set mine up ,I reckon they all need to be checked for colamination every use so bigger the better ,if you get the 14" your going to be thinking about the 16" all the time with the flex tube at some point one side is going to get wear more than the others plus the 16 can be left just about set up you will not regret the 16".

Eps

Ou will get by with the ones you have but plossls will not cut the mustard after a while so keep,that in mind you will need mid/ high grade eps but if you had the 12" am sure your eps wil be fine

Pat

I'm certainly getting a coma corrector with either the 14" or 16"...but the EPs I have now are great and should do the job just fine.

[cotterless45]

On ebay just now, to enhance any garden,

[scarp15]

Perhaps in the meantime you could place a wanted add on ABS for an Orion Optics UK VX 12 or 14. I think that if you could get one of these, it would be ideal for your circumstances and will in addition provide versatility if you are ever occasionally able to travel with it. I think that each of your listed scopes are perhaps a contender though the ES16, based on the current accounts in other threads, may just require some general engineering skills, tools and facilities to get it up and running.

I faced a similar dilemma when I made the decision to sell my 12" flextube. At the time I was interested in the 16" Revelation Truss dobsonian. As there was scant information, I had directed my questions to Telescope House. However I had for some time been interested in OOUK and a few years back was intent on (very nearly) purchasing a VX10. When an opportunity occurred to purchase a VX14 (which I could never afford at retail) I gained a lot of very useful direct additional advice from four OOUK dobsonian user forum members. Since then, I have never looked back and I am very happy with this purchase, it works for my circumstances. It even looks great stored in its domestic setting.

The flextube was easy to use and functional, this solid tube is also easy to use and functional.

[AlexB67]

The nice thing about a VX14 is I suspect, without having lifted one but going by specs, If you could handle your 12 inch flextube you had before around the garden easily enough, when it comes to size and weight you'll be able to handle a VX 14 inch in the same way, their foot print and overall weight is notably less compared to the SW flextubes. 

[emadmoussa]

Perhaps in the meantime you could place a wanted add on ABS for an Orion Optics UK VX 12 or 14. I think that if you could get one of these, it would be ideal for your circumstances and will in addition provide versatility if you are ever occasionally able to travel with it. I think that each of your listed scopes are perhaps a contender though the ES16, based on the current accounts in other threads, may just require some general engineering skills, tools and facilities to get it up and running.

I faced a similar dilemma when I made the decision to sell my 12" flextube. At the time I was interested in the 16" Revelation Truss dobsonian. As there was scant information, I had directed my questions to Telescope House. However I had for some time been interested in OOUK and a few years back was intent on (very nearly) purchasing a VX10. When an opportunity occurred to purchase a VX14 (which I could never afford at retail) I gained a lot of very useful direct additional advice from four OOUK dobsonian user forum members. Since then, I have never looked back and I am very happy with this purchase, it works for my circumstances. It even looks great stored in its domestic setting.

The flextube was easy to use and functional, this solid tube is also easy to use and functional.

I found the 12" Felxtube a pretty good scope, and liked it a lot...sadly it had to go because of personal circumstances. Anyway, out of curiosity. how do you compare it ''optically and what you can observe'' with the OOUK?

Regarding the ES 16", I'm starting to gradually steer away from considering one. Like you say, it seems to be a high maintenance piece of kit and perhaps still got some issues the manufacturer still needs to address. The last thing you want is spend a lot of money on an instrument then realize you need few more bucks to get it working up to your  needs. Perhaps the main thing that I found attractive was the height of the eyepiece, for a 16" it was very thought of...but again, I can see myself getting fed up with setting up and shrouding.

For what's worth, I will keep my eyes open for a 14" OOUK, and if I weren't lucky finding one, the 14" Flextube will meet my needs. Who knows?!! I might end up getting back my 12" if finances were a bit tight...fingers crossed!!

[emadmoussa]

I was thinking maybe if I keep the 14" Flextube focuser and simply - to avoid the notorious thumbscrews - I could always get a 2" coma corrector to live permanently in the focuser and get 2" to 1.25" adapter to live in the coma corrector for when I need to use a 1.25" EPs. This way I won't need to tighten the screws against the eyepieces - the CC compression ring will do the job

Ah well, I guess for an f/4.5 scope a coma corrector will be a nice addition.