Why does Andromeda elude me?

[sheenoco]

I've been trying to find it for weeks now, but just haven't been successful. Is it very difficult to find?

That said, I've only really looked at the moon and the Orion Nebula so far, as I'm slowly getting used to the nights sky really.

Is there anything else that's easy to find that you can recommend to look at?

[Kropster]

Jupiter is very bright and high in the sky..... difficult to miss and well worth a look.

[rory]

in my experience the orion nebula is a brighter ,easier target ,combined with the easy starhop to get there. however the Andromeda galaxy isn't difficult really even from a light polluted sky.

 the better the skies the more you'll see of it. generally youll get the central core if your viewing from an average uk town or city. it looks like a smudged star or small grey cloud.

 to get  a real look of her you want to get out to a dark sky.

 much of the problem sometimes lies in expectation.  beginers ( me included) sometimes expect to see spiral arms sweeping out like photographs. not so.

 id say for a realistic expectation have a look at some astro sketches, they tend to give a realistic view as opposed  to the all singing dancing images.

something like this is what I see from a orange zone sky.

theres a number of ways to starhop to the galaxy . for me I found firstly locate mirach ,then move up to mu , and imagine that line continues , I follow that line a similar distance as from mirach to mu , and that should put you in the area.

 once you locate it , like other objects , you tend to find them easier the next time.

keep at it ,youll get it.

clear skies...

[Northern Soul man]

Hi Sheenoco and welcome to the SGL, glad to see your getting out under the stars, its all a little overwhelming at first and a lot has to do with how dark your sky is where you observe.  Its not that the objects are hard to find its just that the skies may not be dark enough for the objects to stand out that well, if your looking from a town there's a lot of light pollution with stray light shining up into the sky and causing the sky to be bright, these objects that we look at are very faint - this and a bright sky washes out all but the brightest objects, galaxies are very faint and through the scope are like "misty" patches of light.

You've seen the Moon and the Orion nebula - so there's a start.  Other things to look for are open star clusters like M45 (the pleiades), M35, M44 (the beehive Cluster) - these are the brighter star clusters, but remember, if your looking up at a town sky, then you may only see the brighter stars in each cluster, a few more are M36, M37 and M38 in the constellation of Auriga - these are a little smaller and fainter than the first lot but should be visible.

What scope are you using and have you got Stellarium downloaded (for free) or are you using a Star Atlas - both of these will show you where to look for the different objects, but remember, if your using a finderscope, move the scope to where the objects are and then with a low power eyepiece (it will have the higher number in mm on the side of it) just scan around.

You can set Stellarium up to show light pollution and set it to how your skies look - just stick to the Messier objects (M45, M42, M35, M44, M36, M37 and M38) - you can do a search in Stellarium, just put these in and they will show you whereabouts in the sky they are.

Remember, if you have a really dark sky away from the towns and street lights, these objects would be much easier to see, but from the towns, the sky is much brighter, the Andromeda galaxy is just a smudge of "mist", nothing like the pictures show with the dust lanes and spiral arms, just a patch of "mist" and from town skies its just noticeable.

Keep at it and don't get frustrated remember the night sky is going to still be there long after we have all gone!!!.    Paul.

[ronin]

For M31, Andromeda, work out where it should be, you may half glimpse a ghostly patch, then point binoculars at it.

It is very large and in a scope you do not see all of it, binoculars manage to fit it all in and so is is easier.

[Johnny4365]

It took me a while to find Andromeda, to be honest it was initially disappointing when I did find it.

Small grey blob, but then realised this was just the centre of the Andomeda galaxy and the whole thing covers the width of 4-6 full moons depending on the scope used.

The distance of Andromeda (2.5 million light years) is what makes it impressive for me.

[paulastro]

If you take rory's advice and use the chart he kindly supplied you shouldn't have an problem in finding it with 10x50 binoculars - but take yourself away from any bright lights and wait until there is no Moon in the sky.

The best views I've had have been with wide field refractors in the 90 - 120mm aperture range, though something a bit smaller is fine too.

You don't say what telescope/instrument you've been using to find it, but it may be that if you are using too narrow a field and too high a power in poor sky conditions you may well struggle to find it.

My first law of astronomy NEVER give up!  Good luck.

[IVAN TAPIA]

Remember, if you are using a reflector telescope like the dob that I have, I don't know if refractors do the same, but my view is backwards so you have to follow directions opposite when looking without a diagonal adaptor.

Call me Desdinova.

[cantab]

I likewise tend to find it by locating Mirach, then hopping to Mu, Nu, and the galaxy's in view. When I've had trouble, it's usually been because I misidentified another star as Mirach! Delta and Pi Andromedae and HIP 2942 do a nice impersonation of Mirach, Mu, and Nu that left me baffled for a good few minutes the other night - same area of sky, similar colours and relative spacings and angles, but smaller and fainter overall and of course with no M31 at the end of them!

[acey]

At a dark site M31 is an easy naked-eye object. At a light polluted site it may be impossible to see with any sort of scope. If you can't see M31 then there are four likely reasons:

1) Sky is too bright.

2) Looking in the wrong place.

3) Object is too low in the sky. Best time to see M31 is autumn - it is highest in the sky when it is due south, and at this time of year you need to catch it as soon as possible after dark before it sinks to the west.

4) Expecting too much. At a light polluted site M31 should still be visible, but you will only see its small bright centre - a fuzzy blob.

Solutions:

1) Find somewhere darker.

2) Use a decent map, and make sure you've got it the right way around. Objects in the telescope move east to west (entering the field at east, leaving it at west). North is 90 degrees anticlockwise from west (i.e. west is on the right when north is at the top). Star maps have north at the top (and west on the right). If you are using an odd number of mirrors (e.g. a refractor with star diagonal) then the view is left-right reversed, otherwise (e.g. a Newtonian, or its finder) it's just rotated, so you simply turn the map. (The amount of rotation will probably differ between the finder and main scope). It should be easy enough to find M31 just by hopping along the bright stars in Andromeda, but if you're having difficulty then use map and finder. Use lowest power until you find it, then see if it will stand higher power. At a dark site it will, at a light polluted site it might just disappear.

3) Leave it for later in the year.

4) Make sure your eye is adapted as fully as possible by avoiding bright light and giving yourself at least half an hour in whatever darkness you've got.

[sheenoco]

Thank you, I'll try again when we have another clear night.

I have an 8 inch Dob and 25mm and 10mm eyepieces. No binoculars though.

[Kropster]

AN 8" dob and 25mm eyepiece should get it...the core at least.

It may be just that you have been off target.

It should also be visible in the finder.

[M4lcs67]

I found it once a few years ago through my 127 Mak. It was a fuzzy patch in the sky with no definition, but I was told that is what to expect alot of the time. Obviously if the conditions are good, you are in a very dark place with lots of apeture then the structure of it becomes visible.

[Kirscovitch]

If you aren't sure what you are looking for it can be hard to find. The first times out with my scope I failed to find it. Even with goto. But in hindsight I didn't really know what to look for.

First time I saw it was with a pair of 10x50 bins. And the best way to describe it is a smudge. I thought maybe there was something on the bins lens. But after looking around a bit, the smudge didn't move. 

After that, anytime I used the scope I had no problem finding it. 

Could be a combo of where to look and what to look for.

[brantuk]

Imagine a line from Markab in the Great Square of Pegasus that goes diagonally through Alphertaz (Peg) and extends a short way.

Take another line from Schedar in the direction of the "arrow" shape made by the pointy bit of Cas and extend till it crosses the first line. You'll find Andromeda in the area where the two lines cross.

Do this with binoculars first and pan slowly round that area - the width of view provided by the bins will find it easily. It's better from a very dark site - but can be seen and found by eye even in a moderate light polluted area like a village with street lights on the outer edge of a city.

Once you are sure of the object position - ensure you're dark adapted and point your 200P dob using a low power eyepiece like 20mm or 25mm - it's a beautiful sight and the more you scrutinise it the more you'll see. Use a hood to shield any interference from street lights. Hth

[Rockrae78]

I must admit that I use brantuk's method of finding Andromeda, rather than using the conventional way of using Mirach, and Mu. 

I live in an area with lots of LP, but can usually make out the fuzzy white patch with the naked eye, using averted vision, once my eyes have fully adjusted to the dark.  Once I've done that, its easy to use the red dot finder to get the scope in the vicinity of M31, then pan round and get it in the EP. 

I also agree to try and shield yourself from LP whilst looking through the EP.  It's amazing the difference it makes.  I use either a coat over my head and EP, or a black pillowcase (which I bought very cheaply from a textile shop - presumably because no one else buys them that colour!).  The longer you sit at the EP once you've found it, the more detail you'll see.  Even with my 5" scope, you can clearly see the central mass - in bright white, but I can also make out some lanes that make up the arms of the galaxy (although you can't see the entire length of the arms - its just too big!)

There are loads of other good things to see at this time of year.  Do you have a copy of Turn Left at Orion? It's a fantastic book, which has excellent guides for star hopping to lots of incredible targets.  It also has sketches to show you what objects will look like in smaller scopes, so you know exactly what you are looking for.  I found it essential when starting out. 

Planets are always a good thing to look for too.  Jupiter is very bright and high in the sky at the moment, so you shouldn't be able to miss it.  

Good luck! 

[Robbo AR]

Really interesting thread. 
I'm planning on having a look at Andromeda myself (if the clouds ever go away) and this thread has been really helpful, both in where to look and also in what to look for. 

Cheers !

[Killie]

I wish this thread had been here when I was first trying to find Andromeda.. I fell into the newbie mistake of thinking I would see some wonderful galaxy structure visible from my light polluted back garden. :-)

[Kropster]

If you have binoculars then it is a good idea to find it using them first to get a feel for where it is and what you are likely to see (fuzzy blob) before trying with the scope and finding a slightly brighter fuzzy blob.

I think you will need very clear, dark skies to pick out any structure with most amateur scopes.

[wolfpaw]

Thank you, I'll try again when we have another clear night.

I have an 8 inch Dob and 25mm and 10mm eyepieces. No binoculars though.

An 8'' scope will show not only the core but also the two companion galaxies, M32 and M110, as well. M31 is one of those weird things that can be hard to find the first time but once you know where to look it's really obvious. With averted vision it's visible to the naked eye even in fairly light polluted areas.