Hello and advice please

[Fearn1972]

Hi all, first timer in need of a little advice.

I am an absolute beginner with astronomy, but after years of being interested in the stars and planets, Ive come to a point in my life where I want to take the plunge and buy my first telescope. I've spent the last few days researching and think I've narrowed it down to the Skywatcher 150P. I want to start with just observing to familiarise myself with the night sky, but am interested in doing some imaging at a later date. I am looking at the EQ3-2 mount with possibly adding a motor drive at a later date.

Do you think this is a good place to start in terms of portability, stability, magnification etc... I dont want to get out there and find tiny images of the planets and wish I'd spent extra money on a 200P

Also, what lenses should I be looking at to maximise magnification?

Any advice is greatly appreciated.

[bambuko]

Someone is very impatient - starting identical threads in two different places

see also duplicate

[x6gas]

Hi there and welcome to SGL.

Firstly, in order to know which scope might be best for you, you need to know what you'll mostly be using your scope for.

To view many deep sky objects (nebula etc) which are often faint but quite large, you need to have a lot of aperture to gather plenty of light and a smallish focal length which gives a wide native field of view.

For planets you need almost the opposite.  They are relatively bright objects and so you don't need so much aperture but it is helpful to have a longer focal length giving greater native magnification.

Hope this helps.

[Fearn1972]

Hi, firstly, my apologies for multiple threads. thought I'd done it in the wrong place. My bad

To answer your question x69gas, I'm not really sure. I suppose being a beginner I would like a solid allrounder (if such a thing exists) It would be nice to be able to observe nebulae, galaxies etc... but planets is most likely where I'll start. I am looking to do some imaging though at some point. My limited understanding is that the 150P would better suit this than the 150PL, and the 200P is quite lumbersome to cart around.

For info, I initially started looking at the SW 130P and Celestron 130M, but am thinking after doing plenty of reading that I need to at least be in the 150 apature range. Cost is factor although not I have room for maneuvre.

Richard

[Andy_E]

The 150PL would be better suited to planetary viewing as it has a longer focal length (without going in to detail this means you'll be getting more magnification with the same eye pieces).

[Qualia]

It's a Simple answer: a big refractor: they look cool, they look like proper telescopes and will do what you are asking them to do. Especially white ones

But hang on...!!

When looking around at your new potential purchase, the general precept is that aperture rules and so you'll find that if a beginner asks 'what should I buy?' 99% of the answers are always going to suggest the biggest Newtonian (reflector) you can afford and carry about, and more than likely a Newtonian which is Dobsonian mounted rather than GEM (EQ) mounted, simply because the former mounts are easier to use and set up and are a lot cheaper, so in effect you're putting more money into the optics and less into the mount.

Most beginners want to see a little of everything and at a decent price. If you are looking for faint DSOs like globular clusters, nebulae or galaxies you need aperture and low magnification, the former to get as much light as possible and the latter to get as wide a view as possible. Newtonians excel at all these factors and because of their light gathering capacity, they are also decent scopes for viewing the Moon and planets.

But lets suppose, you just want to get high detail of planets and want to split double stars and do some Lunar and Solar observations (with the correct filters in place). Well, now, you don't need big fields of view, nor maximum light collection, but perhaps some really tasty crystal clear views at higher mags. That's when the refractors enter the story. With this said, although many small aperture telescopes like a refractor come highly recommended, if you start small, say with a 3" or 4", you will soon be wishing you had gone for that 6" or 8" reflector.

I don't believe there are 'entry level telescopes'. At a given price, say around £200 to £300 for the sake of argument, there are good ones and there are bad ones, so what you'll have to think about is your budget and then keep on asking questions here at SGL about the telescopes you have in mind. Recall, a decent 8" dobsonian reflector is about the same price as an unmounted decent 4" achromatic refractor. So, not only think about your budget, but have a serious think about what you'd like to be seeing over the next year or so.

If you start to become swayed by refractors, seriously question this as a sensible choice for a first time telescope. I'm not saying a refractor is a bad choice - far from it (my 1st telescope was a frac) - for the first time buyer, but just one you need to contemplate and really understand.

After you've got your scope with its supplied EPs you will probably want to get a couple more eyepieces, but do that only after you've practiced a little. That way, you'll be able to make a much more informed enquiry and decision. But, if you do decide to buy a Newtonian, your telescope will require collimation. So, you will need a special tool to do this, so you ought to budget yourself for a Cheshire which I think are about another £30 - £40.

Another thing to look out for - and I think this is really important - are astronomy sketches. If you have a look at the type of telescope from which the sketch was made this is the kind of thing you will see when observing from a telescope of similiar aperture. From time to time folk do crop up here who are very disappointed with astronomy-stargazing, they thought they were going to see colourful swirling galaxies and nebulae, or those wide and super bright globular clusters seen in the photos, only to see a fuzzy in grey, a planet the size of a pea. So, make sure you're well informed.

If possible, try to get along to a local astronomy club and look through the type of telescope you think you may purchase and see if the view meets your expectations. Most stargazers will be only too happy to help.

It's probably not necessary to say, but just in case, I'd suggest that you buy your first set up from a specialist telescope shop that can provide advice and an ongoing service  – not from ebay and not from some supermarket or photographic store where the staff will generally have no knowledge of what they are selling. If you haven't already had a peek, First Light Optics comes highly recommended as one of Great Britain's top class astronomy shops and, of course, SGL can help out a lot.

I hope this helps and please don't hesitate in asking more questions

[Fearn1972]

Bambuko, thanks for the previous reply. Just read through the "what can I expect to see" thread, very helpful.

Andy, I have looked at the 150PL but from reading plenty of forums, I understood this to be less suited to astrophotography due to the longer exposure times? Or have I got that wrong?

[Fearn1972]

Qualia, thanks for the comprehensive response, and post about what I can expect to see. both very helpful.

In a nutshell, I want a good observing scope thats portable, suited to DSLR imaging and that I can increase magnification with additional lenses down the line. I understand that Dobsonian's are not great for imaging (or have I got that wrong also - lol) I'm pretty sure that its a Newtonian that Im after, just not sure how much difference there will be between the 150 and 200 I have read that the 200 is a large scope.

[Fearn1972]

OK, I hadn't even considered a refractor. What are peoples thoughts on the SW Evostar 120?

[Andy_E]

Yes for photography the shorter focal length will be preferable, but for observing the PL would be more suitable. I think the problem is there's going to have to be a compromise as a great photography set up isn't necessarily a good visual set up... would you be mainly interested in visual or photography?

[Qualia]

I don't want to appear pendantic but portable - as you'll appreciate - is a bit of an ellusive term.

Astronomy usually requires a fair bit of stuff, not just the telescope, for example, but also an eyepiece case, perhaps a chair, star atlas, maybe the mount itself and so on. So portable means different things for different people. I mean, carrying out gear to a car is a different kind of portable, than it is lugging your gear it onto a local bus as it is carrying stuff out to the garden. The best way to get a feel of the size and weight of the gear, then, is to get along to an astronomy club.

I'm strictly visual so have absolutely no experience but if you were serious about astro photography the way I understand it, is that it is without doubt the most demanding part of astronomy. It requires a lot of time and a lot of investment. From what I understand, you should be able to take photos of planets with a dob mount (and the Newtonian/reflector mirror based telescope) and with practice produce some good results, but if you go want to cheap/beginner for decent results, you'll probably need a HEQ5 or EQ6 GEM mount and a ED80 scope (refractor). Brand new this will be around the £1,000 range. Moreover, I'm not really convinced that those kind of mounts would fall under the definition of strictly 'portable'. I have a CG 5 and it is a weighty beast. Have a look at this primer and buy the book "making every photon count" to understand all the ins and outs.
 

[Sandancer10]

Hi Richard and a warm welcome to SGL. 

I was in the same dilemma as you wanting a scope that would allow me to do Astrophotography for both Planets and Deep Space Objects (DSO). I did a lot of research and decided for the me the best choice was an equatorial mount and a telescope with a short focal length. As you can see from my signature I ended up with the SW 150PDS and EQ5 Pro, and I'm very happy with my kit. I find the 150 very good as for me I cannot carry heavy equipment about, however the 200p whilst is a lot bigger would probably be okay for you as you probably won't have a problem with that.  Having said this you have to make sure your mount is suitable to carry the weight of the scope and DSLR. The EQ5 has a viewing load of 9kg with a AP load of 6kg, so make sure whatever you buy is future proof as far as possible. I got the EQ5 incase I do upgrade to a 200p in the future.

Hope this helps and good luck with your Astro Journey.

Brenda 

[Fearn1972]

The photography will come later, I am still debating the virtues of DSLR vs modded web cam. So initially it will be only visual. I'm soooo confused

[Sandancer10]

The webcam is only for Planets, you need a CCD camera for DSO - can be very expensive.  If you have a DSLR I would start with that if you do decide to go down the AP route. I only started in late September and I am writing this I am sitting indoors and have my scope outside and I'm using a laptop to control the scope and a programe to control my DSLR. You can progress quickly in this hobby if you want to, so just be sure what you want to achieve at the outset and you'll be fine.

 

[Fearn1972]

Brenda, your solution sounds about right for what I want to achieve, The EQ5 mount significantly alters the starting budget though. The reason I was leaning towards the SW150P with EQ3-2 was that its a reasonbly priced starting point that seemed to check the most boxes. I am now seriously considering the Evostar 120 for the grab and go convenience, although this again seems to require the EQ5 for acceptable stability.

[Andy_E]

Don't worry, we were all confused once (most of us probably still are!). I'd say the 150P is probably the absolute limit you could attach to an EQ3-2 mount for visual, but for photography this setup may struggle a little. If you can push to an HEQ5 you will have yourself a great mount that will take a 150/200p and also be well up to photography. I'd love to give some advice on refractors but sadly I don't really have much experience with them... it's newts on a dobsonian mount for me all day long! (all night actually).

[Sandancer10]

Okay Richard, I hope you get sorted soon. I can't help but add that I am absolutely delighted with my session tonight - I am photographing M31, the Andromeda Galaxy at the moment for the first time. I'm taking 20 x 1 minute shots and will try and work on the imaging tomorrow.

 

[Fearn1972]

Thanks all for your help, I guess I need a little more research and time to save for the EQ5 Brenda, It may be usefull if you could post or email an example of what youv'e achieved, it would cetainly help clarify whats possible.

Thanks again, I'll keep you all posted.

Richard

[Andy_E]

Just before you go, remember you can always take stunning photos with a standard telephoto camera lens

http://www.flickr.com/photos/fotopholio/8195483914/

NOT MY PHOTO

[Fearn1972]

Just found the SW 200P on an EQ5 mount for £415, seems resonably priced, although over budget.

[Pig]

Hello & welcome

Shaun

[swag72]

Welcome to SGL!!

You have mentioned astro imaging, and so I [removed word] my ears up at that. What I know about looking through a telescope you could write on a grain of rice - I have looked through one less than a handful of times, but I have learnt a little about imaging along the way.

Firstly, before you make any imaging purchase (including a mount) get hold of the book 'Making every photon count' available in the book section of the FLO website. It is a DSO imagers bible. Read it once, then read it again ............ then you will understand what will be best and why. Then you can spend your ££'s!!

AP and visual are not mutual partners sadly, and what is good for one is not relevant or good for the other. There is no all round good scope for both. For AP you ideally want to be looking at an HEQ5 mount. It sounds silly, but THE most important part of the AP setup is the mount. It needs to be able to guide and also be sturdy and vibration free. DSO imaging is all about long exposures, and so you need a mount to be able to track accurately and solidly for many minutes.

Scope wise, many in imaging use a smallish refractor, such as an ED80. This is probably the best plug and play solution you can get in a field where NOTHING is plug and play! It's shortish focal length will place minimal stress on the mount for guiding and you stand a fighting chance of getting some data. Of course, as has already been said you can do a lot with just a camera lens. There are many big DSO's out there!

Go and have a look in the imaging section and people will normally post their kit with their images. This will give you some ideas of what works well. Be realistic about your imaging goals and what you want to achieve.

One last thing that often doesn't get mentioned is that imaging certainly doesn't stop with the data capture. You can spend many hours processing your data just to make a pretty picture and that is the hardest part of all in my opinion. This hobby can take over your life!............ but it's great!!!

Hope all of that helps

[Charon]

Welcome aboard.

[JamesF]

Welcome to SGL

Visual, planetary/solar system imaging and DSO imaging really have different needs and ideally require different kit.  It's quite hard to find a scope that works well for visual and for imaging at a reasonable budget.  In many respects aperture really pays off for visual use whereas it isn't that important for DSO imaging, but for planetary imaging you ideally want lots of aperture and plenty of focal length.

People do use the 200P (probably the 200PDS for preference) on an EQ5 for imaging, but it's quite a tough job and you'll need to spend a fair bit more still to get something usable.

I would suggest going for something like a 150P or 200P dobsonian for visual use only and not worrying about imaging for the moment.  Such a scope could last you a lifetime or be easy to move on should you wish to upgrade in the future.  Also get a copy of "Making Every Photon Count" to get your head around what is required for imaging.

I really wouldn't try to buy a single scope that will do everything though.  I think that's almost inevitably going to lead to disappointment.

James

[Knight of Clear Skies]

Welcome to SGL.