ES Maxvision 68 20mm differences ?

[AlexB67]

Apart form what is mentioned in the adds regarding the newer 68 series such as enhanced coatings, purging etc, has anyone had first hand experience using the following 2 eyepieces,

http://www.optical-systems.co.uk/maxvision-68deg-okular-20mm-p-25561.html

and

http://www.optical-systems.co.uk/explore-scientific-68deg-eyepiece-20mm-125-p-22938.html

How do they compare ?, clearly there is quite a bit of difference in price, and looks, but other than optically how they compare ?   I presume I am right in thinking that cheaper is one of the ones in the once gone batch, they are gone at that price and well regarded around here, whereas the second more expensive types are just sold at standard price ? 

I think I'd like to get the 20mm, also the 28mm 2 inch potentially a bit later if they still have them, but I think I would use the 20mm a lot more for actual viewing of certain targets, so I think I may well get that first since I have a big gap between my 15mm and 25mm right now .  A  20mm tv plossl is also still there in the back of my head competing

Many thanks in advance

[Naemeth]

The Maxvisions 'come from a large order that didn't happen' so they are getting rid of the stock at really low prices (compared to what they are worth), they are the same as the ES / Meade 20mm 68 degree eyepieces

[AlexB67]

Yes, that is my understanding too, the cheaper one I quoted is the same as the Meade one  sold at around 200 or whatever normally, depending on where you look, but roughly in that sort of price range.

[Naemeth]

Yes, that is my understanding too, the cheaper one I quoted is the same as the Meade one  sold at around 200 or whatever normally, depending on where you look, but roughly in that sort of price range.

I'd say go for it, they won't be around for long .

[John]

I'd say go for it, they won't be around for long .

Only as long as JOC keep making them. Which could be a long time if they keep selling well. 

The price could rise though.

[AlexB67]

I'll be gobbling up the 20mm on Monday almost certainly I think, and the 28mm before Xmas possibly. Pretty set after reviews  and much reading at that price I'll take my chance , unless someone will  force the green label on me and try to convince me otherwise a 20mm TV plossl is a better option in this sort of money range, the TVs will be around at the sort of prices they go at quite often,  and can always be bought at some stage, but 50 versus 68 is a big diff, and by all accounts these things work well at f/4.7 reading around with a CC, something I'll want in future. Any residual minor aberrations are not going to bug me on the outer edges anyway.

My gut tells me this will be a nice eyepiece for me at this time for a 20mm at that price anyway.

[John]

Whichever ever you decide to buy it will almost certainly be an interim arrangement (judging by the path that many on here go down) so go for whatever i) you will enjoy and, ii) you can re-sell and recover as much of your investment as possible in due course.

With an F/4.7 scope you will certainly be wanting to have some "black and green" in your eyepiece case at some point I reckon 

[Pig]

I have only had one Maxi and it was a very good performer  I have since been struck down with green & black fever

[AlexB67]

Whichever ever you decide to buy it will almost certainly be an interim arrangement (judging by the path that many on here go down) so go for whatever i) you will enjoy and, ii) you can re-sell and recover as much of your investment as possible in due course.

With an F/4.7 scope you will certainly be wanting to have some "black and green" in your eyepiece case at some point I reckon 

You are a bad man and are doing a very good job of chiselling that green label under my skin    You are probably right, or should I say you are right, but since that cheap offer goes I'd probably not be even thinking about it believing that 20mm is a steal and at that sort of money almost fodder, even if an interim solution to fill a gap say worse case scenario.

Okay Dokey  John, if you had the choice tv plossl 20 or the Maxi  I got the cash to buy it new either way or could wait anyway, TV aint running away, the Maxi offer could end at some stage.

[Reeny]

I have the 24mm on a 200p Dob and it shows all of the double cluster in one go.

With Andromeda centred, both of the adjacent galaxies can be seen in the same view.

At 50x magnification, the 68degree wide view shows slightly more than a 35x Plossl would at 52degrees.

The 24mm focus is easy and forgiving, and the stars really sparkle.

Forum recommendations to go for the 24mm were spot-on.

I also have the 16mm barlowed to 160x magnification.

Focus is a little bit tighter, and the light capture is slightly reduced due to the higher magnifications.

I can probably go down in price for a 42mm 2" eyepiece and still get excellent results.

However - a high mag eyepiece around 5mm will need to be punching above it's weight.

The 24mm and 16mm have significantly raised my expectations of what can be achieved with good EP's.

[John]

I've never used a Maxvision or the Meade equivalent. My comment was more an observation of what seems to happen rather often, ie: a somewhat rapid migration along the lines of:

 Supplied eyepieces --> BST Explorers (or similar) --> Maxvision / Meade 5K / ES --> Tele Vue / Pentax / plus a few quality orthos

Not all make all the steps and some choose not to follow the above path but many do seem to follow this general pattern from what I've observed. I ought to add that I believe the final "step" is pretty small in performance terms but a surprising number of people are prepared to take it, even some who swore that they would not at some earlier point.

Being a devils advocate   you could argue for picking up a few decent but low cost used plossls to keep you going now and saving up to get where you (might) ultimately want to be. It could actually cost less in the long run ?

I'm really not trying to be "wicked" here as it's just what I've observed from regular (too regular probably !) perusal of the threads on here over the past 5 years or so

[AlexB67]

Thanks Reeny. The focal length I have in question is not really in doubt that I want, I assume or get the impression the 16, 20 would all perform similarly though I'd imagine in the Maxi range. That being said your 8 inch Dob has a somewhat more forgiving focal ratio. The thing is the BST I already have will do fine enough for time to come, so when the day comes to replace them, it would have to be something substantially better, and that is no rush and can wait, because in truth the BSTs get the job done for now, so probably that will be the  green label when replaced :0)

I would not be looking for a  16 or 24mm right now anyway.   I would however expect, or from what I hear is that that the maxi is somewhat better than a BST, seeing in any case all these eyepieces will be limited by coma caused by the scope and without a CC the outer field will be compromised, even a plossl at 50 degrees. 

[AlexB67]

I was teasing John a little but I understand and appreciate what you are telling me, hence I ask because I respect that  .

I think I want a 20mm sort of badly, after that I don't see myself expanding and instead saving anyway. Perhaps one wider angle eyepiece as much as it is tempting, but that can wait easily if need be.

Right now I have a massive gap from 15 to 25mm that could do with filling as the most urgent measure I feel, and I don't feel 59 quid or whatever for that maxi is a break my bank deal as a filler, and would still be rather very good in any case by all accounts. Even the small 1.5 adapter on my barlow is not that bad  and useable I find in the interim too on the 10 inch Dob, it is quite  bit better compared to using the entire barrel as a 2x.    

[Reeny]

I haven't noticed coma on the Maxvisions.

It could be there - I just haven't noticed any in the week I have been using them.

The 68 degree MaxVision is 8degrees more than the BST's.

But will it massively out perform the BST's - I doubt it.

I agree about keeping the BST's

I would be putting the money off some high magnification TeleVue's or Pentax instead.

[AlexB67]

The 68 degree MaxVision is 8degrees more than the BST's.

But will it massively out perform the BST's - I doubt it.

I agree about keeping the BST's

I would be putting the money off some high magnification TeleVue's or Pentax instead.

To  be honest, it does not even have to be a leap, something 20mm usable is good enough. The nearest less ideal 18mm BST would be £49s anyway.  10 quid more, for what is effectively a meade at a much higher price, it ought to be somewhat better  I would think.  On the coma front, I can see it easily when I look for it in my scope at f4.7, but only seldom is it an issue or annoyance, depending on target, but the 25m BST is less then perfect in other areas too, so all in all the total combination on wider bright star fields it shows up.  Since Coma will be induced by the parabolic mirror, I am not expecting an improvement in coma reduction, since the eyepiece cannot be blamed for that, but for example astigmatism or other field distortions, the maxi should win I imagine.

[AlexB67]

I would be putting the money off some high magnification TeleVue's or Pentax instead.

Don't get me started on the gap between 8 and 15mm, gaps galore but since I have a fair amount of options with 2x an 1.5x barlow adapter for the time being.   The 8mm BST I use a lot and like a lot, but a 12mm would not go astray for example, but before deciding on the 20mm I actually went through a fair amount of targets debating this with myself. I agree for sure the high power I want to spend good money on later, Delos seems tempting.  In the interim the 20mm would also give me 13.5mm with my 1.5 barlow combo as a plaster that will do.   I doubt I'll end up doing that much anyway, but as I said the 1.5 adapter in particular is not all that bad,  and I have the stock SW super plossl 10mm still as well, so actually I'll have a fair working range at least for the time being.

[AlexB67]

I've never used a Maxvision or the Meade equivalent. My comment was more an observation of what seems to happen rather often, ie: a somewhat rapid migration along the lines of:

 Supplied eyepieces --> BST Explorers (or similar) --> Maxvision / Meade 5K / ES --> Tele Vue / Pentax / plus a few quality orthos

Not all make all the steps and some choose not to follow the above path but many do seem to follow this general pattern from what I've observed. I ought to add that I believe the final "step" is pretty small in performance terms but a surprising number of people are prepared to take it, even some who swore that they would not at some earlier point.

Being a devils advocate   you could argue for picking up a few decent but low cost used plossls to keep you going now and saving up to get where you (might) ultimately want to be. It could actually cost less in the long run ?

I'm really not trying to be "wicked" here as it's just what I've observed from regular (too regular probably !) perusal of the threads on here over the past 5 years or so

After digesting what you said overnight, today and so on I am going to go with a two step approach John i.e. buy the bigger stuff starting next year, since I'll also have a few less financial burdens  on my edifice by then, that will help

BUT

I also decided to buy that 20mm MV ( plus a 1.25 inch UHC also) , seeing it is so cheap in total, it would probably have been another BST anyway for a tenner less, and next month I''ll bag a 10 - 11mm or something cheapish around that focal length. With that I'll have a good travel set for the Heritage and plenty good enough reasonable quality for the 10 inch in the mean time to keep me busy, and I'll not be feeling rushed to get more. 

Traditionally  I've been good once I make up my mind on something to save for it and wait. It is not as if I need to drive to the shops in a Red Ferrari tomorrow when my Ford Ka will just do fine and gets me there, the same for seeing DSOs and I am fully aware of that 

To put it in perspective, the price of 4 BSTs and that 20mm MV would buy me one Delos, , I'd rather have something now/soon like a minimal set that is say 70 - 80 percent functional over a range of focal lengths that is not at all bad to keep me busy instead of adding one Delos in my current situation.  I do like something that is somewhat better than stock eyepieces though ( IMO the BSTs are a good leap ahead compared to stock SW plossls, when I look through my 8mm BST I have smiley, when I look through a 10mm SW plossl I don't :0) ).   In the scheme of things I'd still consider that a cheap initial investment, versus waiting for months to get one extra Delos, and then another and so on in addition to what I have currently and not even complete a fairly cheap basic set first.

To sum up, it will essentially be a 2 step ladder approach in the way I see myself going forward.

1. Complete a minimal set at level 2 in your flow chart, basically almost there with that.
2. starting next year jump to step 4 and save for it, by that time I'll have also gained some more experience  and will probably have had the opportunity to look through a few green labels if I can get the chance at some stage.

Good enough ? :0)

[wayneh]

i have just got the 20mm my self cant wait to get out with it ...

[Paul73]

I'm confused.

The BST have been lauded on this forum - now inhabiting spots 1 through 3 on my Christmas list.

In a fit of "rave review blindness" I surcomed to a MaxVision 24mm 68deg the other day. Great eyepiece. Thoroughly recommend.

Should I replace The BST's on the list with MV's on my list??? 5mm 8mm and 18mm

Paul

[Reeny]

The 1.5-inch MaxVision range is 24mm to 16mm only

They don't do higher than 16mm

To match the MV's performance, you would need to find an equivalent 68-degree range of products.

Or do what I did and Barlow the 16mm down to 8mm.

24mm = 50x / 2x 24mm = 100x / 2x 16mm = 150x

[YKSE]

I'm confused.

The BST have been lauded on this forum - now inhabiting spots 1 through 3 on my Christmas list.

In a fit of "rave review blindness" I surcomed to a MaxVision 24mm 68deg the other day. Great eyepiece. Thoroughly recommend.

Should I replace The BST's on the list with MV's on my list??? 5mm 8mm and 18mm

Paul

If you don't have problem with tighter eye relief, I'd recommend MV16mm instead of BST 18mm. But MV doesn't have shorter FL than 16mm,  IIRC.

[Paul73]

Thanks Reeny and Yong

Christmas list edited! 16mm MV and 8mm BST.

Paul

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

I might be getting an MV 20mm 68deg shortly (for the Dutch "Sinterklaas" celebration on December 5). The ES might be a gnat's whisker better but the price difference is too large to ignore. At the current price, I might even snap up a second one for (future) big binocular or binoviewer use. Down to F/6 the MV 24mm EPs I have are essentially indistinguishable in performance to my TVs, except for FOV. The MVs are used in my 1.25" solar set-up, and I will allow the kids to use them on occasion in their mini-Dob.

[AlexB67]

I might be getting an MV 20mm 68deg shortly (for the Dutch "Sinterklaas" celebration on December 5). The ES might be a gnat's whisker better but the price difference is too large to ignore. At the current price, I might even snap up a second one for (future) big binocular or binoviewer use. Down to F/6 the MV 24mm EPs I have are essentially indistinguishable in performance to my TVs, except for FOV. The MVs are used in my 1.25" solar set-up, and I will allow the kids to use them on occasion in their mini-Dob.

Join the club, (it's  my sinterklaas pressy also  -  more than likely) ,  I  hope the package is small enough for it to go down the chimney, Zwarte piet may have some problems fitting it through there  :0)

[alan potts]

If I were in England I would buy either the 20mm or the 24mm, I know how good they are, I would use it in my finder scope. I am sorry to say at the moment I use a 24mm Panoptic and for doing that I should be locked up, possibly for life.

Alan.