First scope that is child friendly

[AstroJon]

My nearly 6 year old daughter is showing an interest in astrononmy so I am in the process of looking for a suitable telescope. Although I am no stranger to astronomy I've never bought a telescope before but after doing some research I've come across a few possibilities.

SkyWatcher Heritage 76 mini dob

SkyWatcher Infinity 76

I'm also interested in the Heritage 130p and there is also the possibility of a 3" or so refractor. I don't want to go much over £100 at this stage and ideally it should be something that is both easy to use and robust enough for the kids (especially if my 4 year old get her hands on it) but also something that I could happily use as well (at least until I can afford a 10" dob ). As for where it will be used, we are lucky enough to have a reasonable size garden with reasonably dark skies (how dark I am not sure, but on a really clear night structure is visible in the milky way).

Any comments or alternative suggestions are most welcome!

[Zuben Elgenubi]

Hello, of the two scopes you have listed I think the Heritage 76 represents a better buy. They are similar in price but the Heritage has a 'proper' focuser and you can use different eyepieces with it. I found this thread:

http://stargazerslounge.com/topic/57310-help/

My niece was 6 last week and I bought her the Heritage mini dob. I was able to have a quick look through it and fairly easily found the Andromeda galaxy and the double cluster in Perseus. The image was small and not as clear as in a larger scope but it is child friendly, simple to use and definitely a 'real' telescope. The moon was not visible at the time but I would expect that it would provide the wow factor.

I've never used a Heritage 130 but it is a very popular scope. The extra aperture would be a significant step up from the 76, but it does exceed you budget.

Gareth

[HIP3802]

I, too, would support the Heritage 76. Earlier this year I bought one of these for  my nephew, aged 8. Not only does he love it, but he can also see that it is a smaller version of my 250PX.

The scope itself needsvery little setting up.The mount and scope are already attached, and the only preparation is the allignment of the finder scope. The scope takes standard  1.25 eye pieces - so it is easy to upgrade the ones that come with it.

You do need a flat surface to use it from - we found a patio table to be ideal.

What can you see? Surprisingly for such a small scope, quite a lot! The moon is quite impressive - and brought lots of "wow can you see that?" (My nephew was also impressed!!!!). Star clusters also showed up well - in particular The Double Cluster.

If you are near a telescope store I would recommend going and looking at a couple of the scopes including the 130. As I said, this is child friendly, and is not a lot of money to spend if they don't continue interest in astronomy - but you would have to find out if it would also suit your needs.

Hope that helps,

Martin

[AstroJon]

Thanks for the replies. Looks like I will probably go for the mini-dob. Although I don't mind going a little over £100 for the 130p I need to remind myself it is primarily for the kids and not myself! It will still easily outperform my old tasco 60mm and should keep me going until I can get my own scope.

[Bizibilder]

I would suggest the small refractor - say 90mm.  It will have a longer focal length and give better views of the Moon.  Also it will not need collimating like the Dob (optically aligning from time to time) and refractors are just that little bit more rugged than a reflector.  Just my tuppenceworth.

[Schorhr]

Hello,

I have a 70/700 on eq/astro3, a clone of those 76/300 dobsonians, and the heritage.

All observations will be much, much better with the heritage, the aperture is a great compromise between portability and weight, too.

http://www.zudensternen.de/Teleskop%20Skywatcher%20Heritage%20Dobson%20130.html

It's still easy to handle by a child, but not a toy.

Also f/5 aperture ratio is. Not as critical regarding coma and cheap eyepieces.

Only you know how deep her interest is, and the small dobsonians just don't cut it for serious observations. The bresser 76/350 sells for 20-25£ at eBay at the moment, new & buy it now.

But still without decent eyepieces they are not too good. A decent eyepiece like the hr/tmb plantary alow 100-140x views of moon and planets, stunning for such a simple telescope, but not worth it as the eyepiece costs as much as the telescope; 40£ or so.

Also some sets lack of a finder scope.

So to sum it up, for 20£ a 76mm dob is not bad, but the Heritage 130 beats most entry level telescopes, especially since many sets are with a way to weak eq2 mount!

Other possibilites are the astromedia cardboard newtonian, but probably too complicated at 6. It does teach a lot though.

But then, a reading glass telescope does too and all that is needed is black cardboard and a dollar store reading glasses pair as well as a jewlers magnifying glass

perhaps you can get the larger heritage cheaply used? Sometimes people don't know what they are selling.

[LukeSkywatcher]

The Heritage 76 will be good for the kids. Very easy to use at their age without having to fuss around setting it up. The 130P will be great for yourself.

[AstroJon]

Thanks for all the advice. I am not sure how deep her interest is but she is really interested in looking at the moon and saturn. I'm actually thinking of getting the Heritage 76 now and either the 130P or perhaps something like the Evostar 90 refractor for myself towards the end of the year.

[Schorhr]

How about her focus of interest? Planets or galaxies, nebuae?

For deepsky there is really no alternative to aperture, and also the planets at 100-170x still look quite small.

Don't invest too much in a 76p unless you can get it or it's clones on sale :-)

70-100mm are nice for the moon and okey for planets, larger telescopes just have a certain wow-factor.

Good luck finding a suitable telescope.

[AstroJon]

At the moment it is mainly the moon and "the planet with rings" so as long as it can show these she will be happy. I've seen the 76p for around £40 or so, I seem to remember my 60mm tasco refractor costing more than that over 30 years ago! If it turns out she isn't that interested after all I would still happily use it while I work out my budget and requirements for a larger scope later.

[Schorhr]

with the 76p and the stock eyepieces Saturn will be not very spectacular - and the low and short visibility of the planet at the evening makes it even more difficult to observe.

Without a finder scope it's quite a challange, so if you buy a 76p for 40£ + 15-20£ finder scope + 30£ eyepiece... That's just another step to the Heritage.

But I don't want to push you or anything, I'm just saying that the 76p is probably a nice toy, but not much more. Ideal for moon and maybe Orion and Andromeda, as well as Jupiter's moons - but not Planetary detail.

Slightly cheaper then the 130mm telescopes are 114/900 reflectors - 70£ but on a WEAK tripod.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/OPTICON-900-114-DISCOVERY-Teleskop-FILTR-BARLOWx2-DVD-2KARTE-HD-FILM-/130936226595?pt=DE_Foto_Camcorder_Teleskope&hash=item1e7c684323

This is exactly THE major problem of telescope kits. The telescopes are not bad at all, but the manufactors save on mounts and accessories to a point that the kits are not usable.

If you know what side of a screwdriver is Up, you could build a own dobsonian rockerbox for about 4£, but of course it's best to buy a ready-to-go telescope.

There are variants of the 114/900 and 130/650-900 on eq1 and eq2, or "fake" eq3 (=>Astro 3) mounts for 90-130£, but for kids the 130p Dobsonian is best as it's rock solid stable and easier to carry.

Saturn with a 30-40£ eyepiece - 76/300 dobsonian (76p clone), 2.5mm eyepiece = 120x

At the sidewalk infront of our house, earlier this year, light polution but clear skies

Quick sketch

Saturn with the 76/300 http://www.ringohr.de/tmp6//2013-05-04_Saturn-h76p_contrast.jpg

With the 130/650 http://www.ringohr.de/tmp6//saturn_small_130p_260x.jpg

Jupiter@76 http://www.ringohr.de/tmp6//2013-05-05_Sketch2_76_jup.bjpg.jpg

jupiter@130 http://www.ringohr.de/tmp6//2013-05-04_Jupiter130p2_sm_str.jpg

Note that the difference is not just the lower magnification but the higher resolution and light-gathering-power of the larger mirror. The 76 just can't magnify any higher without the image turning too dark and blurry.

Galaxies with the 130p from the edge of our city

http://www.ringohr.de/tmp6//2013-05-05_invertDoodle_crop-galaxies.jpg

With the 76p they are either not visible or just small dots.

The ring nebula is actually a ring with more aperture, and star clusters show quite some stars and don't appear as a solid cloud anymore.

Sorry for the quick & dirty doodles, I don't have anything better scanned at the moment.

//Edit: Links corrected.

[Qualia]

+ 1 for the advice given by Bizibilder.

From my limited experience, I'd expect there wouldn't be much to choose from between good examples of a achromatic 4" frac, and a 5" Newt and perhaps even a 6" newt. Each type gives each other type a decent run for their money. In fact, you may find so little difference that factors other than aperture become more important.

A decent 4" achromatic frac such as the Tal 100rs (which can be picked up for around £125 to £150 secondhand) will give lovely planetary, lunar and solar views (making sure proper filters are in place for viewing the sun in white light!). It is really nice to look through and is a cracking telescope punching way, way above its price bracket. Being an f/10 it will be extremely kind on cheaper eyepieces, will reach decent magnification for planetary viewing, will need scant attention, if any, in terms of collimation (and so you don't need to spend extra money on the necessary Cheshire tool) and is an extremely rugged instruments. The downside with any such system is that you will need a mount for it and a frac on a mount and tripod is sometimes tricky to place the eyepiece in a comfortable position, especially when viewing the Zenith.

The Skywatcher Heritage range also get a really nice look in and again, just like the Tal 100rs, it is difficult to find a bad word about them. Views will be very nice, they will need very little cooling down time, and you won't need a mount (only a table to stand it upon). Nevertheless, being a newt based system you will have to budget for a special tool called a Cheshire to maintain collimation and being a 5" f/5 it won't be an ideal planetary scope. Being of such a short focal length, it will rely on very short focal length eyepieces to gain significant magnification. If you wanted to enjoy Jupiter, Saturn, some Lunar features at around 150x, for example, which isn't really a great deal of magnifying power in such objects, you'll need an eyepiece of around 4mm. Now, unless it has decent eye-relief it may be very uncomfortable to look through and unless it has a decent field of view it may be tricky to track your object. Needless to say, such eyepieces are quite expensive and can set you back anything from £50 to ££££100s a piece.

As can be seen from the other suggestions, I don't really believe there are 'entry level telescopes'. At a given price, say around £150 to £300 for the sake of argument, there are good ones and bad ones, so what you'll have to think about is your budget and then keep on asking questions here at SGL about the telescopes you have in mind. Although many 'small' aperture telescopes like a refractor or the Heritage range come highly recommended, if you start small, say with a 4" or 5" scope, you may soon be wishing you had gone for that 6" or 8". So have a serious think about this.

If possible, try to get along to an astronomy club or star party and take a look through the typpe of telescope you have in mind and see if the view meets your expectations. I'd also suggest you buy your first set up from a specialist telescope shop that can provide advice and an ongoing, after sale service - not from ebay and not from some supermarket or photographic store where the staff will generally have no knowledge of what they are selling. Here I would recommend F.L.O which is generally considered one of the UK's top class astronomy outlets and, of course, SGL can help out a lot, so keep on asking questions.

Hope this helped.

[Schorhr]

Hello Qualia,

A film canister will be sufficient for collimation, or on-the-go even eyeballing (idealy through a lid with hole) will work for good-enough collimation ;-) All modern eyepieces have decent eye relief and are available down to 2.5mm, plus there's allways the barlow option;

But I agree, 6 or even 4mm Plössl are horrible and nearly useless due to the difficult view.

Tracking something at 200x is not hard as the dobsonian mount of the Heritage is pretty smooth. But of course a equal size refractor would be a nice device, similar to the longer dobsonian, more difficult to handle for a young child due to the equipment's size and weight.

Sorry, I did not mean to start nit-picking :-) Sorry.

Astronomy seems to be all about compromises in some way. I really wish there was a 114mm dobsonian or something like that in between.

[Macavity]

I think, to "look at the moon and saturn", a MAK 90 (OTA = £116) would be best. 

Child (bomb!) proof, has a closed tube, collimation (should be) unneeded etc.

A narrowish field, but no smaller than a typical "Dad's (or Mum's) Dobsonian"

The main merits being: Freedom from false colour, can use cheaper eyepieces

(will take higher magnification) etc. I have never been overly impressed by the

Saturnian view through small aperture refractors. A 90mm MAK grabs more light

than 70mm. A shorter length places less demands on a lightweight tripod etc.

I suspect a performance akin to Sir Patrick's much fabled "Three inch refractor".

(Presumably an 80mm achromat and also a "fairly slow" scope - ~F12 or so?)

[Schorhr]

We have a 102mm (4") Maksutov (1300mm Focal length). Those really are great and work well on a stalbe camera tripod.

Though the 130/650mm dobsonian does have a few advantages, even though at f/5 it's secondary mirror has a (almost) similar large obstruction compared to a Mak.

At 650mm there are no issues regarding a narrow field, and 6" or 8" dobsonians take 2-inch eyepieces, while most small maks don't. At 1300mm foclan length a 30mm Plössl won't show all of larger nebulae for example.

Compared to a refractor the larger obstruction of a Mak is somewhat a downer regarding planetary observation, but their size and overall performance are great. Even the 4" fits into small backpack. Sadly their prices kind of went up, from around 100gbp to 160gpb if I remember correctly.

[nicks90]

slightly out there option - what about a simple/cheap zoom spotting scope?

plenty to be had second hand, nice 45 deg eyepiece for easier head position for the child, simple alt/az mount, very rugged, no collimation, simple zoom, plenty around for under £100. If you go second hand you can even pick up some nice branded high quality 80mm spotting scopes from ebay etc.

plus it has the advantage of having a genuine dual role for when you go out during the day birding etc.

Nick

now sorted my little girls christmas pressy, as she is always wanting to look through my big dob!

[AstroJon]

I must admit I do like the idea of a Mak, looking around it appears I could get a used skywatcher 90 EQ1 or 127 (autotracking alt-az) for £100.

[AstroJon]

It has been a while so I thought I would update this.

Ideally I would have gone for a Mak127 but realistically this is out of my price range. This therefore left me with 4 choices. A 80-90mm refractor, a Mak90, the Heritage 130p dob or a 130 newtonian on an eq mount. Taking into account that my daughter wants to see "lots and lots of planets" and appears interested in nebula (galaxies not so much) and I would need something that is easy to use and quick to set up I have put an order in with FLO for the Heritage 130p.

I have also been looking at options for eyepieces. I've got an idea of what I would like (BST starguiders) but for now I will see what the telescope is capable of before purchasing anything. On the plus side I was going to get the skywatcher 2x barlow but I decided this probably wasn't a good idea at this time.

I apologise in advance for the weeks of cloudy skies... At least I can get familiar with stellarium and work out what objects to look at when we finally get the chance.

[happy-kat]

Very happy with ours, so I hope you will be too.

Stock eyepices are OK and I still use them even with the new odd one bought since.

Best other thing, sticking a red quality street wrapper over my torch! (I have them saved from years ago)

[Schorhr]

Hello AstroJon,

great choice, I am sure it will give you nice views of both moon & planets and some deepsky objects.

A BST is a good idea but depending on the budget many choices are valid;

The 66degree wide angle eyepieces seem to be available for 19gbp (china) and 27gbp (UK) but of course the BST or HR Planetary will perform better on f/5...

For now you can get good results with the stock eyepecies and wory about replacing them later :-)

Due to the Heritage's short focal length some more magnification is a plus though especially on small nebulae (such as the ring nebula) or on planets... But even with the kit eyepieces a lot is to discover!

Orion nebula is hard to miss, hχ star cluster looks amazing, Plejads and Andromeda of course are easy to find too...

Check out some astronomy beginner websites as they usually list a lot of objects that are great with 5" scopes.

[happy-kat]

And my latest finding is SkyEye pro on Android which has a push to function which I hope to use to find comet ison, but might make it quicker to find stuff faster with your daughter. Otherwise I enjoy taking time and finding stuff myself using Turn Left at Orion.

[Schorhr]

Astro Tools is great too, but a red transparency sheet would be required to somewhat preserve night Vision, as even red mode astronomy Apps are never truly red&black, Displays will emitt some white light.

for planets this won't be so problematic, but on the other hand, Jupiter and Saturn are among the brightest objects in the sky and hard to miss

[Optical Dob]

Hope you all have a lot of fun with the 130 Dob Jon its easy to use and holds collimation very well. There are many users of the scope on here that will be pleased to answer any questions you have. The 25mm that comes with the scope is OK but the other one I'll leave that up to you to decide.

[frugal]

The one thing I would keep in mind is that kids want to be able aim and focus the scope themselves. Having dad get it all set up and then just looking through the lens doesn't cut it. So male sure you get a scope that she can adjust it by herself.

The routine we use which seems to work quite well is that I loosen the clutches; she slews it around to point at what she wants to look at; gets the target in the middle of the telrad. Then I tighten the clutches back up and she does the fine adjustment with the ra/dec knobs.

Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk

[AstroJon]

It has arrived! Ordered Tuesday, turned up around lunch time today which I think is pretty good.

Initial thoughts...

There is a rather deep scratch on one of the tube extending rails. This appears to be just cosmetic however as I can't see any other damage and it doesn't affect performance in any way, I presume this must have been there during assembly otherwise I would have expected to see further damage. I forgot to get a collimation tool but inspecting as best I could with just the naked eye it appears fine. The only assembly required is to attach the red dot finder. I took it outside to align the finder, using a TV arial on a nearby house. Although I've never used one before I found it very quick to align. I only used the 25mm eyepiece which gave lovely sharp views. The scope itself is surprisingly stable yet easy to move around.

I'll probably have to wait a while for clear skies, there was some sun today but it is rapidly clouding over... I'm looking forward to seeing how this performs but overall impressions are positive so far