getting an image

[Andrew*]

I can tell this is going to be a long, hard slog!!

In my observing report I explain how I couldn't see anything on the screen with my Atik 1-HS in the ED80 looking at M45 (I thought this would be an ideal first "DSO" to try).

I had exposure at 1/25 sec, brightness right up, and I fiddled about with everything else, including focusing. To no avail

I've managed to get Vega on the screen before tonight, so why oh why not M45? I swung round to Capella but still no joy. Just a liney grey screen. 5-10 seconds also revealed nothing.

Any suggestions?

I thought maybe someone with a toucam (same chip?!?) and ED80 could let me know roughly whereabouts the focus position is, which might help me a bit...

If it's this hard just to see an image, maybe I should give up or stick to star trails. I'm kidding - I NEED an image, but....

Cheers

Andrew

[barkis]

Not being an expert Andrew, in fact your knowledge on the subject is probably greater than mine. I have not yet pointed any of my scopes or cameras to the sky. Sorry, I lie. I did use my DSLR on a mirror lens last year.

I think image acquisition is a subject all on it's own, and has to mastered like many other aspects of digital imaging. It seems ludicrous that you can't see any of the M45 stars on your laptop screen. I am sure it can only be a pointing or focusing problem.

I shouldn't worry about it, some of our resident experts will appear like a genie out of a lamp to help out. Just bide a wee while, as you might say in your land.

Ron.

[blinky]

Andrew, Get yourself a hartman mask. Awesome bit of kit to have.

[MartinB]

I can feel the frustration from here! Did you line up visually first?. Are you using K3CCDtools? Sometimes it is a bit funny about linking up with the camera. A while since I used it and I don't have the program in front of me but under the file menu you have to make sure the appropriate preview mode is selected. If no joy it is worth rebooting with the camera connected. Next thoughts are - leave the brightness midway but crank the gain right up. then go in and out, set the focus at around 2 seconds and move the focuser through its full travel.

Something I've done a good few times is to forget to take the lens cap off :shock:

[legion48]

It can be difficult to get an image on screen at times. Here my procedure:

1. Get your image capture software ready, gain and gamma up high.

2. Center object in 6mm lens

3. Pop in camera. The image should be on screen somewhere. You may have to adjust the focus before you can see anything. Sometimes, if an object is very dim, you wont see it on screen until it's close to focus. It can be very easy to go pass the point where the image becomes visible, especially if you adjust the focussor too quickly. Slow and steady does the trick.

4. If no image is found within 10-20 seconds, repeat from step 2. The object may have drifted out of the fov or you may have been a bit "enthusiastic" with the focussor and moved the scope a bit.

[moondog]

Andrew

I have an Atik 16iC and use it with the ED80. Don't know how similar the 16iC is to your 1 HS but it's probably close(ish).

To get focus with the 16 iC I need about a 35 - 50mm extension tube between the focuser and the Atik. It won't focus without the extension - I just get a grey liney screen - like you.

I do an initial focus on a reasonably bright star. It sometimes takes a fair bit of racking the focus first in and out very slowly to get focus. Presumably your Atik is set to loop the exposures without saving them so you can do this?

If you see the start of a darker grey part circle you've usually found the star. It just needs focussing. If the circle grows you need to turn the focus the opposite way. It's not easy, we all have to spend a fair bit of time getting the initial focus right. It can take me a good 15 minutes sometimes to get reasonable focus.

Once you manage to get focus, mark the focus drawtube with a marker pen. Then next time it will be easier.

Hope you manage to sort it soon !

MD

[Andrew*]

Thanks a lot for the help, Chaps

Andrew, Get yourself a hartman mask. Awesome bit of kit to have.

I'm gonna make one, but first I've got to actually get something to focus on! Closing up the aperture is not gonna help get me focus!

I can feel the frustration from here!

Actually, I was quite cool. Even when the computer died spontaneously I didn't scream! I'm just taking it patiently cos I know it's not gonna be easy!

Did you line up visually first?.

Yup. Got it nicely framed visually without a diagonal. The RDF was correctly aligned too, and I used that afterwards to make sure it was tracking okay.

Sometimes it is a bit funny about linking up with the camera. A while since I used it and I don't have the program in front of me but under the file menu you have to make sure the appropriate preview mode is selected. If no joy it is worth rebooting with the camera connected.

I had this problem before. The laptop has a webcam built in to the monitor, which is usually picked up first by the computer and I have to find the Atik, but this time the Atik image was shown on startup.

Next thoughts are - leave the brightness midway but crank the gain right up. then go in and out, set the focus at around 2 seconds and move the focuser through its full travel.

Do you mean exposure?

I'll try that. I was only using 1/25 sec, but later tried with longer exposures. I'm sure another half hour of laptop time would have revealed the answer

Something I've done a good few times is to forget to take the lens cap off :shock:

Now that I did remember!

Sometimes, if an object is very dim, you wont see it on screen until it's close to focus. It can be very easy to go pass the point where the image becomes visible, especially if you adjust the focussor too quickly. Slow and steady does the trick.

Thanks for your help, Legion. I may have missed the focus point, or never even reached it. I just remember it being quite far IN before, and I didn't explore very thoroughly the end of the focus travel.

I have an Atik 16iC and use it with the ED80. Don't know how similar the 16iC is to your 1 HS but it's probably close(ish).

To get focus with the 16 iC I need about a 35 - 50mm extension tube between the focuser and the Atik. It won't focus without the extension - I just get a grey liney screen - like you.

I really don't think I needed an extension last time - thought the focus point was quite far in, but of course I may be all wrong! The SLR focused only right at the very end of focus travel though

Once you manage to get focus, mark the focus drawtube with a marker pen. Then next time it will be easier.

I focused on the moon no probs before. Next time it's up, I'll do that procedure which will help me in the future.

Bits of gunk on the monitor kept on showing up at certain angles and I kept hoping they were stars I think I'll use the 0.5x focal reducer next time, which might facilitate things somewhat. I must have been using a 100x "magnification", which now that I think about it wouldn't have framed much of M45...

Ach well, try, try and try again. Hopefully once I've got it, that obstacle will be over with and I can start on the next one! :insects1:

Cheers again guys

Andrew

[MikeP]

I'm with Moondog on this - I definitely need an extension tube in place of the diagonal to get focus with a 16HR attached to an ED80.

Mike

[Andrew*]

maybe that's where I'm going wrong...

[Andrew*]

or maybe this is:

In case you can't read it, the second smallest box is the image scale with the Atik straight in the ED80. Even with the reducer i'm only just getting over half a degree, and I need at least one degree field.

EDIT: sorry, here's the image:

What now? :insects1: Do I just stick to small targets? Do I trade for a WO66? Can I use two FRs? or an f/3.3 one? Or shall I just not bother imaging with the camera and use it as a guider?

cheers

Andrew

[CELESCOPE]

Its been a while since i used my atik 1hs and 2hs , seem to have forgot everything , ,it is frustrating Andrew but easily overcome , but get an extention 1 and a quarter by an inch and a half , Bern has them , this way you have full options for focus ,get it centred on a bright star for this , and see if you can focus on that ,if not then u need more back focus slip in the extension tube , and try now , i,m sure then u will get focus ,, if that works , then use kccd Tools for long exposure , i always run a 9 sec exposure to enable pin point focus,gain 50% and brightness 50% , but remember that turns on the focuser should be very fine else you will run right through the focus point,

Cheers

Rog

[Andrew*]

Rog,

thanks for going through that so clearly. I'll try with the extension. I'll try with longer exposures. I'll try with the reducer. And I'll use the IR filter next time (forgot).

Cheers

Andrew

[Andrew*]

I don't believe it - still no luck

Used Vega, focal reducer, racked right in, and all the way out with 50mm extension. just one messy liney screen

Can't see for the life of me what I'm doing wrong! I'll wait for the moon and get the drawtube marked. Then I'll have a registered focus position to start with next time

Cheers

Andrew

[MikeP]

Andrew,

I had a problem with a modified Toucam a while ago - I know you are using an Atik, but just in case ...

I was using the Astromomiser supplied cables to convert from serial/parallel to USB. First time I tried it, I looked to see which COM port had been allocated and set that in the software and it worked OK. Subsequently I had a similar sounding problem to you and discovered (eventually) that the COM port allocated changes each time.

Can't think of anything else to try.

Good luck.

Mike

[Kaptain Klevtsov]

Have you tried it during the day Andrew? I test most of my camera kit by pointing them out of the window at the hill opposite.

Kaptain Klevtsov

[Andrew*]

I took this the day I got it to make sure it works. It clearly does the job:

But these leaves were only 100ft from the scope and the fact is that my house is surrounded on all sides by trees, and I have to bring the scope quite a way before I can point to objects distant enough to be of any use.

And thanks Mike, I'll check the com things.

I'll try it in the daytime again and check it's all still okay.

Cheers

Andrew

[legion48]

Andrew,

I had a problem with a modified Toucam a while ago - I know you are using an Atik, but just in case ...

I was using the Astromomiser supplied cables to convert from serial/parallel to USB. First time I tried it, I looked to see which COM port had been allocated and set that in the software and it worked OK. Subsequently I had a similar sounding problem to you and discovered (eventually) that the COM port allocated changes each time.

Can't think of anything else to try.

Good luck.

Mike

Same thing happened to me the other night. My SC1 had been using comm 8 forever and then it suddenly changed to comm 7! I wasted a whole evening before I figured out what was wrong. Mind you, this only affected LX mode. 1/25 still showed an image. :?

[daz]

Remember that the chip is damned small and any deviation from being spot-on centred will cause the star to be off the chip.

Be as accurate as you can with centring - get a reticule eyepiece if possible - saves HOURS of frustration

Whack up the gamma, slow down the exposure and push up the gamma as well

I still think you've not got enough extension on the focuser - have you tried with a diagonal in place? If not try it. If you get a star using this, then its definitely a back-focus issue.

Fun innit??!

[Andrew*]

Fun innit??!

oh yes!

maybe i remember it focusing quite far in because I was using a diagonal...

I'll try that - cheers.

And I'll work on that centring thing...

Cheers

Andrew

[Andrew*]

I'll try that - cheers.

And I'll work on that centring thing...

Tried both. Still no luck

Didn't get a chance to try it in daylight yet (get's dark sooo early!) but I tried without the diagonal on the moon tonight and my biggest success was a focused straight vertical line. I don't know what this was, but it was definitely something to do with focus. There was another less defined line parallel to it, but they seemed too straight to be the limb and terminator of the moon, and there was no detail to be seen between them. The camera "focused" (with reducer) about half way through the focuser travel without the diagonal, although I did try both. I made sure the target was on the chip using a 6mm eyepiece, which I think gives half the FOV.

Then the laptop battery died before I could further investigate the lines :insects1: :rolleyes: :lol: :lol: :D

Of course I screamed this time! So close...

I'll use an extension lead to power the laptop next time - no excuse :nono:

Andrew

[Andrew*]

SUSSED IT!!! :clouds1: :clouds1:

not fully solved yet, but I got an image

I removed the parallel port and just used usb. The vertical lines were only present when the parallel was in . For a shot of the moon, of course, I only needed the short exposure, but what's going to happen when I want to go dso, i just don't know

I'll process it and put it up later tonight.

What a bl**dy relief!

Andrew

[daz]

So, when you plug the parallel cable in, your image disappears and you get vertical lines appearing??

This sounds like an issue with the parallel port shorting out somewhere.....

[Kaptain Klevtsov]

Or the port settings are wonky. Does the free version of K3CCD come with the port commander (which you can use to change the state of the port outputs I think)?

Kaptain Klevtsov