Delos 14mm Pentax XW 14mm and Ethos 13mm

[alan potts]

14mm Delos and Pentax XW for main course, and an Ethos on the side.

This started as the rumble in the jungle and end up as mayhem in the mid power range.

I should have put these two against each other long before now. I actually sold the Pentax back in February and was awaiting it being picked up, guess what before I had time to complete the punch up it was collected but I still got enough done with it for it to be useful.

Sorry I cannot enter a photograph due to the card reader being in the bin.

The eyepieces.

Delos 14mm is a short barreled member of the range and the longest focal length one I own, it’s quality is obvious from just a look and it comes in a well made but not over the top box with the same caps that we have come to expect from Telvue. It weighs in at 400 grams on my very iffy scales and as I said is a little shorter than some from the same range. This is good news for Dobsonian users, as some of the Delos range with a Powermate in the mix do start to become rather lengthy. I always feel that you could almost open a window and observe from indoors with them, not a bad idea in winter. All in all a quality package.

Pentax 14mm XW.

I have had this eyepiece for about a year or so and it is like all the other Pentax XW range, it oozes quality. It comes in a very nice box with a bullet case that fits the eyepiece snuggly. The eye-guard is a little different from the Delos, it is a twist up type and is in stark contrast to Televue. I prefer the latter, however this is only personal taste and does not reflect on the eyepiece one bit. I feel the XW would suite a Dobsonian user more because it is short and fat and sits much lower in the focuser, though it is still a fair handful. It is a bit lighter than the Delos at 360grams, according to my Argos special offer scales.

13mm Ethos.

This eyepiece takes the length and weight titles and is starting to get into the too long area for many people, at 550 grams and 145mm in length it could cause Dobsonian owners to be out looking to buy magnetic knife racks. This is of course a superb accessory to any scope just incase you need to do a spot of midnight cooking on the barbeque and that steak is a bit too big. No surprises from theTelevue Company here, in the box and caps department, they are the same design. There is no twist up or click stop eye-guard with the Ethos, just a rubber flip up type. I never use it personally. This looks and is a very expensive eyepiece even with a bit of on-line discount you will not see much change from 500 pounds. Something to really think of as the Delos is now about half that price and the Pentax about the same.

Telescopes.

I am using a number of scopes for these three fine eyepieces but the one thing I cannot do is subject any to a really fast scope test, I just don’t have one.

Telescopes I am using will be; 190mm M/N, the GSO RC 150mm, the 115mm APO and the 12 inch LX 200. This will give a range of magnifications and a fair spread of speed from F5.26 with the Sky-watcher to F 10 with the Meade.

Targets.

I have tried to pick a different set of targets this time and have included some deep space objects. I have to say Globular clusters are a bit of a favourite of mine, there are some very nice ones on display at the moment. I did not view every target with every scope as the magnification would not do them any favours,

Targets are,

Saturn.

The Moon,

Messier 22, 12, 10, 80 and 107.

Messier 17.

Antares.

The double double

Sky-watcher M/N 190mm.

This was used on 5 nights, was in very good collimation and checked before use.

This time of the year for me it is a case of warming a scope up rather than cooling one down. I have a weather system for outside the house and in and thermometers in most rooms. I find this scope needs a good while to reach thermal equilibrium, though most nights only it has a 5-6 degree difference to overcome. I never use this scope for anything other than visual work due to me buying the wrong mount for it, I foolishly believed a Skywatch advertising photo clearly showing it perched on a HEQ 5 pro. Many folks will say it is under mounted, I agree but it can be used and is stable enough.

The 14mm selection are giving a power of X71 on this scope and the Ethos a little more at X77, personally I cannot see a difference when swapping them around but I am sure there is one. The very fact makes it easier to make direct comparisons between all of them.

Messier 17.

First up, late on in one evening session was the Swan or Omega nebular, well it was late for me with being up at 5.30 in the morning. This is a lovely site on a moonless night but I guess it is always a little low from any part of Great Britain, it would be nicer overhead for me but we can’t have everything. The view is a bit disconcerting for me with this scope because everything is upside-down and I never have got used to it, but I like the scope.

Switching back and forth between the three eyepieces is no mean feat with this telescope as the focus system is far from the best I have ever used. It has a sleeve that moves in and out as well as a Crayford focuser and you have to guess where the point of focus is and remember. As a fairly good trumpet player years ago, though no Maynard Ferguson, I found it easier playing the trombone than using this focus system.

I can’t say I saw a great deal of difference between the 3 images that I had before me, seeing was good and the air was clear for this time of the year on the night I studied this. I just got the feeling the Delos was a tad better in all areas it was a little better than the Pentax which has always had a superb reputation for light transmission, though I could not detect any difference in brightness between any of them, even with the Ethos in effect magnifying to a greater degree.

The Swan nebula is one of the best in the sky, for me it is almost up there with the Orion nebula and of course one where small instruments can see a good deal of nebulosity. I am not sure what the best power is for this type of object, it is very much a personal thing, though I could not object to this X70ish magnification, no doubt I am sure others will have their own ideas. The more I looked at the wisp of nebulosity the more I was drawn into though of, if only I had a 24 inch scope, but if I had one I would only be calling for more, are we ever happy bunnies.

Antares.

Having cracked this double the week before using a 5mm Pentax at X200 I thought I would try my luck at a much lower power with the same scope. All 3 eyepieces gave a clean and very nice airy disc with some diffraction rings too, well while the star was still. With it being low, even for me only getting 21 degrees above the horizon at best, the scintillation still kicks in at times even on good nights, on bad nights it’s best to look at something else. I just had a felling the Ethos was trying it’s best to show me two stars though I would not claim this as seen. I also liked the way the 13mm showed so much more sky, this is not really fair on the other two as they can both claim much better eye-relief, I am not sure a glasses wearer could use an Ethos.

M 22,

This is without question one of the best globular clusters in the sky, it is a fair size at 17 arc minutes and shows up well in even small telescopes. The only criticism of it is the height it gets in the sky, for me it is not too bad. However it is always going to be better from a dark site in Southern Mexico with a bowl of chilli. The 190mm scope was resolving the outer stars very well indeed and I could see a good way into the central mass but at no time did it look as good as in my 12 inch, but that is just stating the obvious. I just got the impression that both Televue combatants were just showing that bit more, a little cleaner on axis and sharper. With the Delos it don’t seem to matter where you view objects, as far as I can see any part of the field of view will do the job, something that again Dobsonian owners should find appealing. Both were sharper than the Pentax towards the edges but believe me I am being hypercritical here, this eyepiece is being compared to two absolute pearls and would I am sure wipe the floor with most others on the market. The XW is also often pulled up for field curvature, well yes there is some but I only notice it on things like the Moon and even some Televue eyepieces have this and I don’t see too many astronomers moaning. I got so enthralled with looking at this collection of suns I forgot about the constant onslaught of the mosquitoes, they seem to be in love with my blood. I could not help wondering what it would be like to be on a planet in the middle of this cluster with a big wide field scope, something we will never know, well not this week anyway.

M107.

This is a very delicate globular with 4 star making the shape of a cross and there is something about it that really appeals to me, I often look at with the LX and normally use a power of X150, it is very much a larger scope target and would be disappointing in anything less than 6 inches in size.

The cluster did not appear as good as with my larger scope which I knew was always going to be the case. The 4 stars I spoke of are all around the 11^th magnitude so within the scope of the M/N 190mm. The Delos made a beautiful job of this as did the other two, though I had to wait for moments of perfect stillness to get the best from this target, more magnification would also have helped. All four stars standing out very well against the dark sky, though I would have said it was not as dark as it could get, still only being 10.30pm and a slight glow to be seen looking towards where the Sun had disappeared earlier. Again whilst I was not going to rubbish the Pentax I thought the two Televue oculars were a little sharper and showed just a few more individual stars. This sounds terrible but I reach these conclusions after swapping eyepieces around for 6-8 times per target and spend about 90 minutes on this one target over what was two nights. I firmly believe that just given these eyepieces and 10 minutes in any scope on a given night it would be almost impossible to tell them apart, I have the added advantage of having used them a good few time before this as well.

M 80.

This to me is a globular that needs a large telescope and whilst my scopes are not small they pale into insignificance when I see the telescopes that some of our American friends use. I wanted to try an experiment on this globular that is a little off the wall but I think worth a try. Setting up the Goto on the mount which is always fairly good now I know how to use it ( only took a year, good for me). I set the coordinates using Antares as the last star, then set the mount to find other stars near by so I could see where they were in the field of view. Then as it was not full dark sent the scope to M 80 and tried to see which eyepiece was the first to show it. This was a very difficult thing to do at first as I could not see a fainter star to focus on so was having to use Antares and slew back to where M 80 should be, all this takes time but I soon got the hang of it. I don’t really know if this totally unscientific method will ever catch on but I saw the faint blob with the Pentax XW first, but a few minutes later the other two were seeing it as well. I should point out that when I saw the cluster for the first time I was able to focus on near by stars and was not wasting the battery power in my pack slewing back and forth.

I didn’t feel any of the eyepieces really did this small tight globular any justice, I wouldn’t go so far as to say that I was able to resolve any stars and the word blob seems about right, though I did view this on maybe the worst of the nights, seeing wise. It is of course another object that would be better if it was overhead and again is only going to be low and difficult from England and I guess for some of our members living in places like Norway would be almost impossible. I also viewed the double Graffias while I was playing around and would say the each eyepiece should the double as the same, the Delos could have just been a little tighter with regard to scatter, but really nothing in it.

115mm APM.

This is my one of my smallest scopes but it is sharp as they come and cools down or should I say warms up much faster than some of my collection. Some nights the 180mm Maksutov takes an hour to adjust just a few degrees. The eyepieces here were giving fair low magnifications for globular clusters but the ones I choose were larger than some. The 14mm eyepieces gave X57.5 and the 13mm X61, so no chance of seeing a difference.

The double double

This is one I like to look at with this scope, Firstly it is about the lowest power I can see the four components as separate stars and second it is almost overhead, so no better time. It could also be leveled that this is a better test for such a telescope than globular clusters, but I like to try to include something for all. Sure enough the two sets of double stars were splitting into four and the best rendition of this was with the 14mm Delos, it just looked clearer than the other two though there again was not that much in it. This is a good test of optics and I believe someone on site has seen this with a power under X45. I can’t lay claim to that myself.

M22,

This is a nice target for this scope and a doable globular. All the eyepieces showed the outer stars though nowhere near as good as the Mak/ Newt did and the center was more confused though still a nice object and is one that you all should try if you have not done so already, just use a bit more power than I did here. For me the Delos was the eyepiece of choice here and it did the best job but deciding this was no where as easy as writing it down as I just have. The Ethos would be a better eyepiece in an un-driven scope as you would have much longer to view the object before having to move the scope, or should I say nudge. In truth any of these would be a fine addition to a collection of eyepieces but I have to try and pick a favourite on this target and the Delos gets my vote here. At this point I cheated and put the Powermate in to double the magnification, the views were so much better, showing so much more in the way of individual stars. I would normally use around X130 for this cluster with this scope.

M 12,

There are a number of very nice clusters in the constellation of Ophiuchus and it is more northern and will appear higher in the sky from all of Great Britain being somewhat above Scorpius. Messier 12 is a fairly bright globular cluster at a magnitude of 6.1 with a size of 16 arc minutes, so says Sky-map pro. I waited until it was nice and dark which is always a problem at this time of the year, even here, I imagine in northern Scotland it never really becomes dark enough to look at these clusters at this time of the year.

The cluster was nice to view with outer stars visible as separates and all eyepieces showing a speckled and dusty core, very much giving you the, what if I bought a bigger telescope feeling. On this one I would call a draw between the two Televues as I couldn’t see a difference between them, both were just a fraction better than the Pentax, especially if I placed the cluster to the edge of the field of view, something that seemed to have little effect on the others but with a driven scope that seem a bit nonsensical, the things you have to do to see differences.

M 10,

Just a bit down the road from M12 and just a little fainter at magnitude 6.6 but bigger than even M22 at 20 arc minutes, this is a fine cluster and again one you should all try to find, it is easy enough from my site in the 8X50 finder but this could be a different story given loads of orange street lamps. This was viewed on a different night and the Pentax had gone to a new home, the sky was extremely clear with the Milky Way visible down to below the Antares area was which was about 20 degree above the horizon at the time.

Messier 10 looked fabulous with this telescope it was clean, sharp and outer star were easy to see. I would say that even on this telescope a magnification greater than around the 70’s would do the cluster greater service, if this were the case I would be sure I could see more individual stars. There is no real winner here with regards to which eyepiece is best but the Delos did just frame it that little better but I could also say the Ethos showed a tiny bit more, must be the extra magnification kicking in here or more likely my imagination moving into top gear.

GSO 150mm RC,

I wanted to use this scope as it gives a very good colour rendition to all objects and has a longer focal length. The power on this would be X98 and X105 for the 14mm and 13mm respectively.

Antares,

Wikipedia tells me you can glimpse the double star of Antares with a 6 inch scope under good conditions, so I thought I will have a slice of that and have a try. After about 60 minutes of swapping one eyepiece for another and trying all sorts of averted vision and both eyes I gave up. Alpha Scorpius is one of the reddest star in the night sky and I always enjoy looking at it, I believe the name means rival of Mars. I would say here the redness was best seen in the Pentax, it just seemed that bit deeper than in the other two. On this occasion though not even the Pentax XW 14mm who’s stable-mate (5mm XW) gave me my first view of the double the week before, albeit in a different scope, was able to help me to a second victory.

Messier 17

I thought it was time to revisit this as the Moon would be putting in an appearance in the next few days. It again was a straight fight between the two black and green eyepieces as the Pentax had gone. I have to say that after at least an hour of viewing this and swapping them about and ensuring that focus was spot on, the Delos could just, and I do mean just claim to have shown a little more nebulosity. This was again something you would never have picked out with a quick 2 minute sneak peak, if you could then I have to say you are a better man than me, or have better eyes. There really is nothing in it between these quality eyepieces, they are both absolutely excellent.

Saturn

I just wanted to try Saturn though the magnification was going to be something of a limiting factor here. I could see the Cassini division with all three eyepieces and the planet was very bright at this X100ish power. I wanted to see if I could pick up any of the fainter moons at such a low power. Titan was there as bold a brass as you would expect. After a while at the scope I able to see Rhea and Dione with all the eyepieces but was unable to see Tethys at first but thought I could see it in the Delos 14mm, I change eyepieces to check at a higher power and it was indeed there. This suggests to me the transmission of the Delos is just a little better than that of the other two, but it is not by much. It was a bit of a surprise as Tethys is brighter than the other moon Dione, I can only surmise that it was down to position of the moons in relation to the main body. I did not see Enceladus but again didn’t really ever to expect to.

I could also see a little bit of ring detail in so much as I could see different shades either side of Cassini, there was also a shading of the polar region but at such low power this was all I could see. It may be of interest that with the X2 Powermate being used all the moons could be seen with ease, Dione Titan, Tethys and Rhea but not the others.

Meade 12 inch SC with coma free optics

It is a while since I have had this one outside and that alone should drive me on to finish the observatory. It is just getting a bit on the heavy side to lump up and down stairs in and out of the basement; I keep seeing an accident waiting to happen and don’t want to be there if one does. The eyepieces here are giving much more power and the scope is a friendly as you can get at F10, the 14mm giving X217 and the 13mm giving X234, so this is maybe the first chance to see a magnification difference.

The scope is in very good collimation and the front collector and mirrors are clean.

Saturn

I viewed Saturn two nights here and I must say there was little to choose between the 14mm eyepieces as far as I could see, I would have said seeing was better the second night though then I sadly no longer had the Pentax to test.

The 13mm Ethos for me gave the better view of the gas giant, though no one would have been up-set with the two 14mm view offerings. I could see the Cassini division very clearly and a good deal of belt detail when the air was at its stillest, it was almost like a photograpy at times. The rings were sharp and crisp, so much so I was worried they would jump out and bite me on the nose, they had teeth. The different shades between the rings A&B were clear though I have yet to see the other division the name of which eludes me.

All the main Moons were there to see including Enceladus and Mimas I tried to see the outer Hyperion but could not track it down against the background, something I thought would be easier with the Ethos having such a wide field of view. All the eyepieces showed the Moons that I mentioned and either one would be difficult to better, but for me it was the Ethos that won the day as a planetary eyepiece giving that bit better view. I am sure the 12mm Delos would be the eyepiece of choice here if I had one, with the larger scope and extra power. The other thing I have is an advantage over most that will read this as Saturn is fairly high in the sky, even towards mid-night it is still higher than you see it in the England.

Messier 107

This is a fine cluster in a large scope and one I really do like, it it almost worth the effort getting the scope out just to look at this alone. All the eyepieces showed it well the stars are fainter and more delicate than say M13 which really stands out and is in your face. The four cross stars showing much better than in the smaller 190mm. I urge anyone to have a look at this that has a similar sized instrument.

No real shocks here as I would say the Delos again was that bit better than the Pentax and the Ethos was just pushing too much power. I dropped the power to the 17mm Ethos and it was sublime, what an eyepiece that one is to.

Messier 80

If I was ever going to get a good look at this cluster it was with this scope, though there was just a little bit too much power for this work in my opinion. This was very easy to find with the Meades much better, in my view Goto system, M 80 landed smack bang in the middle of the field of view, some achievement at such power. This is a small globular at 10 minutes and not that bright, though it is given at magnitude 7.3, it seems fainter. I was able to resolve some of the outer stars but Lord knows what sort of scope would be required to really see into this, the VLT maybe. This is a cluster that I always feel is trying to hide from me as it seemed very reticent to give up any of its detail, it makes you work for every scrap. The winner for me on this glowing powder ball was the Delos as the magnification was just a little less and though I would have been happier at X180 believed this did the better job.

Antares,

If I had a pound for the minutes I spent looking at this red giant with this scope I would be rich, if I had ten pounds for every time I had seen the double I would be pot-less. Antares seems to put on a display of Bulgarian folk dancing every time I look at this star with this telescope, to look at it seems still to the eye but through a 12 inch, it’s another matter, jumping all over the place. It is difficult to understand the size of this star being larger than the orbit of Mars by some distance; they all look the same this far away. It goes without saying this was yet another total waste of my time and the double was not seen, still it will not stop me from trying again but with the orthoscopics this time.

The Moon,

Yes it is that time again and I now cannot just ignore the fact it is there as it pretty much wipes out deep sky views, well looking south anyway. I have to say that by now the Pentax was not with me which is disappointing because I could have studied the field curvature to see how bad it really was. In my opinion it is not as bad as some make it sound but it may account for the reason that the Pentax 14mm XW is the only one that Teleskop Service in Germany, still has on stock, the others having gone some time ago.

Both the Televue eyepieces gave an excellent Moon, with lovely bright images in view from both, showing a very sharp line of craters with bags of contrast. It really is a very much a case of which one you like the most here as apart from the field of view difference I could not split them. For me though I would use the Ethos the most as it just gives that bit extra that no matter what the Delos cannot due to design. I think the Delos had a little brighter image but that is most likely due to lower magnification given by the scope.

Post mortem.

Well I have spent a long time looking through these and had too many late nights this week, my neighbours cows cannot tell the time and do not understand having a lay in, neither do the birds come to that.

Three very fine eyepieces though it has to be said one that often gets criticism for field curvature and yes this is true but I don’t see it as bad as some. I think the Pentax 14mm XW is not as good as the others I have used, that is the 5mm XW and 7mmXW, both are absolutely excellent in all areas. That said for me it is still a very good eyepiece and has few rivals in this area, you have to remember it was developed a good few years back, long before Delos and Ethos were even at a design stage, though I don’t know that for sure.

The Ethos 13mm, totally brilliant eyepiece and the only thing I can hold against it is the cost new, but secondhand, well that is a different kettle of fish. Though still very costly the Ethos range must be the best secondhand eyepieces on the market, I think once bought they are keepers, it’s just the buying that stings a bit. The 13mm offers top draw views of all subjects I have viewed and is said to be the best of the Ethos range, though how one draws that conclusion I am not sure.

Delos 14mm, I can’t say a bad word about these either, for me it is better than the same from Pentax and I am sure can hold its head high against any on the market from any manufacturer. It may even be the best eyepiece in this 12-16mm range, it’s sharp, has masses of contrast excellent control all around and no aberrations I can detect on my scopes. It would be a fine addition to any collection or a dam good place to start one, I am pleased this came my way from a site member.

So which one would I pick if I had a rope around my neck and was standing on a wooden platform with a door in it. In view of the discount, if it is still on I would buy the Delos at 250 pounds, however if I were able to buy a secondhand Ethos around 330 pounds that is where my money would go. Finally if money was no object then again it would be the Ethos, only because you would always wonder, ‘what if ‘. It is not really an answer is it, maybe I should hang. Either Televue will be very very difficult to better and whilst a site member rightly pointed out the Zeiss abbe ZAOs are the benchmark in the eyepiece world I think these win hands down in other areas and probably cost less.

Hope you enjoyed it,

Alan.

[John]

Another very enjoyable, comprehensive and informative read Alan - great stuff !!!

[Damo636]

Yep, another fabulous report Alan, thanks very much for taking the time and effort to write it up

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

Great report Alan. I think I will go for the Delos 14 then

[rowan46]

your reports just get better and better a great read thankyou

[jetstream]

Alan,excellent,objective report.And now my decision is made.Thank you for all the work.

Gerry

[Stu]

Lovely report Alan, enjoyed that one a lot :-).

Think I'm pretty much set with my ep's now and have the 13 ethos so nothing more to consider.

I have ended up with Ethos from 13mm upwards, and a selection of Delos below. Somehow, at the higher powers I enjoy the eyerelief more and am less bothered about fov. Doesn't mean I won't get a 3.7 ethos SX when my numbers come up though (note to self, buy a lottery ticket!

[Pig]

Alan,

Great review, it just goes to show that you will always get a lot out when a lot of effort has been put in. 10 out of 10.

Its all the more satisfying knowing some of the testing was performed on an f10 when you own one , I also love my 14mm Delos and totally endorse your findings

[Dunkster]

Another great report of 3 great EPs, so thanks for all your effort Alan

Totally agree with you about the 17mm Ethos in a big corrected cat, it's a killer combination, so I think you have persuaded me that the 13mm is one to enjoy too

[alan potts]

Thanks for the kind words, I hope it helped some people, I know Gerry over in Canada was keen to see what I had to say, though why he should take any notice of of I don't know.

Maybe it would be nice if one of the Moderators moved it into Equipment reviews. I know I should post it there in the first place but putting it here first seems to get more attention , when it takes so long to put them together it is a bit of a downer if it goes un-noticed. Hope I am not being selfish.

Alan.

[Naemeth]

Great review Alan - very informative.

I know I said I wasn't tempted by ultra-wides... but I simply can't rule out a Delos in the next few months .

The uses of now having better focusers .

[alan potts]

Stu,

Thanks for that, I knew it began with E but that was all, I have never seen it. I think you need a fair size of scope to see it, maybe it's closed up. I agree with the Ethos for wide and Delos for short too, my we know how to spend cash.

Alan.

[SimonfromSussex]

Lovely report Alan and very informative. I own the 12mm and 17.3mm Delos and in my reasonably fast 16" lightbridge (F4.5) they are very very good.

Beautiful contrast and sharpness with a richness to the view I've not experienced with nay other glass.

If my lottery numbers come up I'd love to upgrade to the Ethos but in the real world for £250 (at the mo) I think the Delos certainly offer really excellent value for money.

[John]

Maybe it would be nice if one of the Moderators moved it into Equipment reviews. I know I should post it there in the first place but putting it here first seems to get more attention ....

No problem Alan - done plus link left in eyepieces section

[alan potts]

Simon,

I have to say I am thinking of the 12mm myself and a 16 inch LB, I would move away from the Nagler T4 that is in this slot. It would be nice to read a few words on the 17.3mm if you ever get a chance, it seems one that few have bought.

If my numbers came up I would cover all bases and just buy the lot and then get a set of Zeiss ZAO's, I wonder which will cost the most.

Alan.

[SimonfromSussex]

Thanks Alan, with my focal length of 1830 I've found the 12mm very good on planets, gives me x153 mag which is good when the seeing isn't great.

I've also used it for smaller planetary like the ring nebula.

On good nights if I want to push it further I barlow the 17.3 which takes it to 8.65 or x211, had some cracking views of Saturn recently at this power, such detail.

I think the 17.3 delos is superb value (I paid £250 from the widescreen centre).

I've used the 17.3 on the veil and the dumbell recently with an oiii and I'm seriously amazed at how good it is. Crisp to the edge and as I say a richness to the view. I could see detailed structure with the veil and the apple core appearance/contrast of the dumbell was really clear.

That said, the only comparison I've made to an eyepiece of similar power is a Vixen LVW 17mm which I tried before I purchased the Delos.

To my eyes the Vixen was very good but not a patch on the Delos. The Vixen gave a nasty outer edge (probably because of the lightbridge speed I think at F4.5) and the field wasn't as rich.

I've not seen the ZAO's? Are they good then?

Lets hope those numbers do come up!!!!

[John]

...I've not seen the ZAO's? Are they good then?...

There are 2 generations of these Zeiss Abbe Orthoscopics, the ZAO and the ZAO II. Both out of production now, individual eyepieces come up for sale very rarely and go for high prices - a ZAO II 4mm recently sold for around $600 in the USA.

[alan potts]

John,

Is this the set of 4 eyepieces that Zeiss did that come in a polished solid walnut case, I think I saw a set before I came to SGL on Astro B&S, I think the ask was 1600 if my memory is any good.

Alan.

[John]

Yes, there was an option for a nice wood case and a matching barlow I think. I believe these retailed for around £1,700 originally but a boxed set would go for more than that now I reckon.

I did have a quick peek through Andrews 4mm ZAO II at an SGL star party but it was so brief that I can't recall how it performed really. I imagine them to be rather like Baader GO's but with slightly better light scatter control and planetary contrast.

[Andrew*]

Yes, there was an option for a nice wood case and a matching barlow I think. I believe these retailed for around £1,700 originally but a boxed set would go for more than that now I reckon.

I did have a quick peek through Andrews 4mm ZAO II at an SGL star party but it was so brief that I can't recall how it performed really. I imagine them to be rather like Baader GO's but with slightly better light scatter control and planetary contrast.

Yes, I've only seen one set for sale since they sold originally.

If I remember right, we were looking at Saturn through FLO's 180mm Mak, or was that a different part of the night? A 4mm would have been seriously high power!

Indeed scatter is virtually non-existent. I once also saw a more vivid rendering of Albireo's colour contrast compared to a Circle T ortho.

Andrew

[Andrew*]

Here it is Alan in its walnut glory:

Oh, sorry, this is a topic about Delos'.

Alan, that's a terrific report on the Delos and Pentax. A little bit surprised to see the Pentax panting a little to catch up.

Thinking of getting a 17.3mm to add to my 10mm.

Andrew

[alan potts]

What can I say, very nice indeed you must be proud of them, I would be. This is the first I have ever seen a photo of them. I had the 10mm Delos and changed it for the Ethos, can't make up my mine if it was the right thing to do. I know someone here that tells me the 17.3mm Delos is the best of the lot, but he only has two so read into that what you want, I think they are all brillant, wide field, eye-relief, contrast, good control and very sharp. I look forward to a test in the dark with your collection.

Thanks for sharing the photo.

Alan

[Naemeth]

What can I say, very nice indeed you must be proud of them, I would be. This is the first I have ever seen a photo of them. I had the 10mm Delos and changed it for the Ethos, can't make up my mine if it was the right thing to do. I know someone here that tells me the 17.3mm Delos is the best of the lot, but he only has two so read into that what you want, I think they are all brillant, wide field, eye-relief, contrast, good control and very sharp. I look forward to a test in the dark with your collection.

Thanks for sharing the photo.

Alan

Alan, not meaning to hijack the thread, but personally I wouldn't get rid of either. From what I've read of both eyepieces - the Ethos and Delos both have their strengths and weak points (none that can seriously be called 'weak points' though). The Ethos has less eye relief for example, and there may be nights when you want a very relaxing view, others when you want slightly less comfort, but still quite a bit (Ethos), and those when performance is your main aim (very good quality orthoscopics etc.).

Not sure if that helps, and it's only really from 2nd hand experience - but I've noticed there are nights when I prefer my LV 7mm to my TV 8mm plossl because of eye relief, and nights I just don't care about the eye relief.

HTH

[alan potts]

Just before I go to bed, Yes a good point you make, I may well get another 10mm Delos and another 6mm for that matter. I fully understand where you are coming from, there are nights when I use the 10mm E on the LX, this gives X304, at that power the Delos is a better option, but on say the M/N 190 where the magnification is X100 it is the reverse.

Alan.

[Naemeth]

This Astronomy lark certainly isn't cheap...

Do think about it though Alan - don't just get a 10mm Delos because I suggested it - it needs to be what you want to do because it does get expensive (you of all people should know that )

HTH