First scope - for a family and on a budget

[Torin]

Hi

Been looking at getting first telescope for family use (young children) and on a tight budget (<£150). After reading a few posts on here, looked in a couple of shops and generally internet searched I have come up with a couple of options:

Skywatcher Heritage 130p

http://www.firstlightoptics.com/dobsonians/skywatcher-heritage-130p-flextube.html

and

Skywatcher skyhawk 1145p

http://www.firstlightoptics.com/reflectors/skywatcher-skyhawk-1145p.html

I'm looking for a onewhich is a good all rounder (planets / stars / nebulae / comets (if we get any)) but is easy to use and relatively quick to setup - after all children get bored quickly! Oh and storage space is tight so a nice compact one would also be nice. However I realise that at this price range (which is my max so can't stretch to anything more) it's going to be a compromise.

Am starting to lean towards the 130p but is there a major drawback I'm missing with this scope (e.g. never use it for looking at the sun (with sun filters of course!).

Other scope suggestions would be welcome!

[dtr42]

130p decent all rounder , eq mount on the 114p can be finiky and the vibration effect on tripod again can be a pain especially with young kids . i am a dob base man so i would go for the 130. bigger is usally better imo and kids can have a great time setting up and having fun with a relatively inexpensive start to this reat hobby

[Naemeth]

The Heritage is a great scope, and very easy to handle (only about 7kg all assembled, tube is about 1.3kg of that). Only downside is the focuser, but it's definitely a great scope for the price.

Just like to add: Never view the Sun without a suitable filter - usually made with Baader Solar Film. Eyepiece Solar Filters are dangerous and if you use them, you risk melting the secondary mirror and your eye, it's really not worth it!

[Astro_Baby]

Well there are a range of issues here.

How old are the children is the big one and how tall are they.

An Eq mount is a learning curve for the rank newbie but it does have the advantage that its easier to keep stuff in the feld of view. An alt az is more simplistic and easier for young minds to understand but they can be a bit like chasing a chicken. When you get to see how fast the moon and planets move in an eyepiece its an education in itself.

Given the fact that almos whatever you buy in this price range will be somewhat limited I would go for an Evostar 90 on either an AZ3 mount OR a 120 pn the EQ2. The Evostar will be easier dor children to handle and a bit more robust. The 130 will give nominally better views but in my opnion is less hardy in the hands of children.

Another alternative would be to wat h ebay and try and pick up a TAL 1 which is a superb small scope and its bombproof which is no bad thing with kids aroun....these go for as little as £35 but dont let that put you off. Its a great small scope.

You should bear in mind that most deep sky objects, nebula, galaxies are tiny and faint things even through telescopes which are 10x your budget so the primary targets for a small scope are planets and brighter deep sky objects like the Pleiades and the Great Cluster in Hercules and the the Orion Nebula. Even these are unlikely to create excitement in younger children whereas Saturn, Jupiter and the Moon all have a lot of wow factor even in a small scope.

You also need to think about a few accessories, some beter eyepieces will make a difference. These needent cost a lot....budget for about £30 per eyepiece. The ones that come with the scope will be good enough to start with if cash is tight.

Small children have a very low boredom threshold usually, mine did, so stick with planets which are easy to find to start with.

Hope thats all of some help. I dont usualy afvise on what scope to buy threads...its very hard to know what would suit someone else. Give First Light Optics ....link at top of page........a bell and they will give you impartial advice and a good deal.

Wishing you clear skies.

[Daniel-K]

the 130p is a cracking scope which will revel the gap in saturns rings and moons, star clusters, some of the brighter galaxy's, the moon will be a firm fave with the kids being able to see the craters, my 4 year old loves looking at them.

[Torin]

Thanks for all the suggestions so far, certainly think I'm still leaning towards the 130p although I will certainly look into the Evostar 90 (120 is out of my budget...). I'm guessing though that the 130p would be better (whilst a little less robust).

With regard to looking at the sun an using Baader Solar Film Filter at the front - the fact that the 130p has no sides for around 1/2 the tube would this be wise to use it?

[Naemeth]

I just selopt

Thanks for all the suggestions so far, certainly think I'm still leaning towards the 130p although I will certainly look into the Evostar 90 (120 is out of my budget...). I'm guessing though that the 130p would be better (whilst a little less robust).

With regard to looking at the sun an using Baader Solar Film Filter at the front - the fact that the 130p has no sides for around 1/2 the tube would this be wise to use it?

I just selotaped some Neoprene foam around the inside to cover, and cut a hole for the secondary mirror. I did a cardboard holder for the solar film, it's not neat at all, but does the trick.

[jonathan]

I would definitely look at a refractor, anything else requires some form of learning curve for alignment of the optics (typically with reflectors this is referred to as collimation) or may be susceptible to dew (SCT / Maksutov), and will be a bit more delicate to handle. A refractor is the classic telescope design with big glass elements, it usually requires no maintenance and can easily be adapted for daytime use to observe wildlife or ships (the usual rule about not pointing it at the sun applies). Typically the view will be upside-down in astronomy telescopes, this is to aid light transmission by reducing the number of mirrors in the light path; a different star diagonal can be fitted to correct this for daytime use, containing what is called an erecting prism, for about £40.

Don't be afraid of the Skywatcher Startravel 80 on EQ1, it is a cheap and cheerful little refractor scope. The EQ1 is fairly robust, the tripod requires a little care as the plastic fittings can break if the leg clamps are screwed too tightly (I did this, but it was relatively easy to repair). You will see more through a Skywatcher 130 Explorer on EQ2, but it comes at the cost of robustness and a greater learning curve for maintenance. Personally I would choose either of these two over the flextube 130 or the Skyhawk 114 as they look a little... plasticy.

One to consider anyway. Good luck!

[Chris]

I think Astro_Baby is onto something with the Evostar 90. Not to take anything away from the Heritage 130p which is a lovely little portable scope with good aperture for low cost, however, as Astro_Baby points out its not going to be as robust as the Evostar. Secondly, the Evostar on an EQ mount might be better, although initially less intuative than the simple Heritage dobsonian mount, if you want to share what you find the EQ mount will track objects with a turn of a knob, also a cheap motor can be bought and easily fitted to automatically track objects. All this means you can share views without losing the target before the next person in line has had a good look, even at low powers objects move fairly quickly across the field of view!

The EQ2 isn't the most sturdy of mounts so I think the Heritage wins there but I think for 145 pounds the Evostar 90 EQ2 is a lot of scope for the money, and will give nice views of the planets, Moon, clusters, double stars, and some of the brighter DSO's like the Orion Nebula, the Dumbell and ring planetary nebs for example.

Mybe we should be recommending this scope more for family use?

http://www.firstlightoptics.com/evostar/skywatcher-evostar-90-eq2.html

[Torin]

Right so far seems to be Sky hawk out and evostar 90 in with the 130p still in the running. With regards to the robustness concerns of the newtonian dobson is there much hassle?

[todd8137]

Ring round a few shops first and get a group average do mot rely on one shop as thy all want ya money

[nederman63]

I am new to this, got the 130 and really pleased with it, takes seconds to put up and the views are great.

[Chris]

Right so far seems to be Sky hawk out and evostar 90 in with the 130p still in the running. With regards to the robustness concerns of the newtonian dobson is there much hassle?

The newtonian design is great in that its cheap to produce which means you get the most aperture for your money, however, Newtonians do need there mirrors collimating to keep the views at there best, its not a difficult process and theres plenty of guides on youtube and Astrobaby has a very good guide to collimation, also there are tools that you can buy to aid you such as a Cheshire collimator. Some scopes hold collimation well but if they get a big knock its definately worth re-checking collimation. Refractors like the evostar don't need collimating and its in a solid rolled ali tube rather than an open truss design which is going to be a bit more delicate, probably still strong enough if I'm honest but not as strong. The main reason I was recommending the evostar on an EQ mount is that you will be able to share what you see more easily. If you basically point the north leg of the tripod towards polaris the pole star and just make sure the declination is set to roughly the correct angle (52 degress where I am) then you can track objects by turning the right accension knob. The dobsonian will be a bit more tricky when swapping between poeple to keep the target in view.

Both great scopes for the money though so don't sweat too much over a decision, I'd be happy to have either:)

[Torin]

Thanks for all the info so far - it all helps a new person getting into this and the enthusiasm by everyone on this forum is certainly welcoming.

I'm not that bothered but just for the occasional camera snapshot (assuming I have the adaptor) I gather the dob would not be really suitable - would the evostar 90 be better?

[camoscato]

I've got the Evostar 90 on an EQ2 mount. I chose it as a first scope because I wanted something capable, but which wouldn't break the bank. My thought was if I didn't take to astronomy, I wouldn't have wasted a lot of money.

As I said, it's my first scope, so I can't compare it with others, I can say it's been great for getting started in astronomy. I've used it to see Jupiter, Saturn, the Moon, and the Sun (obviously with a solar filter). I haven't done much viewing of deep sky objects, but that's due more to the weather than anything else.

For a first scope for a family, I think it's a good choice.

[Torin]

Hi All

Well I went and saw a couple of scopes yesterday - sadly had to pull myself away from the 200 dob and all the other rather lovely out-of-my budget scopes! Anyway they didn't have either the Heritage 130p (very kindly said they would get one in though and ring me when it was) or have one of the Skywatcher 90 EQs out but did have the Celestron Astromaster 90EQ Telescope. Can anyone tell me how the Celestron compares to the Skywatcher?

Thanks

[jonathan]

The mount and tripod look better on the AstroMaster (just going by the photos, I've never actually used one) than the Evostar on EQ2, the telescopes are probably going to be very similar but I have a hunch that the Evostar may edge it for astronomy use, although the AstroMaster comes with an erecting diagonal so you'd be able to use the telescope during the day too. The erecting diagonal may be the thing that very slightly hampers the AstroMaster for astronomy as it is an extra few surfaces in the light path that the Evostar doesn't have. The Evostar also comes with a 9x30 finder scope, the AstroMaster has a 'star pointer' which I presume is either a simple non-magnifying sight or a red dot finder. The diagonal on the AstroMaster is also a 90 degree one, which are great for astronomy but rather awkward for daytime use.

I know from experience that the Celestron Omni CG-4 is a very nice mount, the AstroMaster comes with a CG3 so going by that I'd say the mount should be better than the EQ2, it certainly looks beefier (in the tripod too) which is an important factor for vibration.

My money is on the AstroMaster at the moment, just going by the specs and photos available online, and what you hope to use it for.

[Naemeth]

The mount and tripod look better on the AstroMaster (just going by the photos, I've never actually used one) than the Evostar on EQ2, the telescopes are probably going to be very similar but I have a hunch that the Evostar may edge it for astronomy use, although the AstroMaster comes with an erecting diagonal so you'd be able to use the telescope during the day too. The erecting diagonal may be the thing that very slightly hampers the AstroMaster for astronomy as it is an extra few surfaces in the light path that the Evostar doesn't have. The Evostar also comes with a 9x30 finder scope, the AstroMaster has a 'star pointer' which I presume is either a simple non-magnifying sight or a red dot finder. The diagonal on the AstroMaster is also a 90 degree one, which are great for astronomy but rather awkward for daytime use.

I know from experience that the Celestron Omni CG-4 is a very nice mount, the AstroMaster comes with a CG3 so going by that I'd say the mount should be better than the EQ2, it certainly looks beefier (in the tripod too) which is an important factor for vibration.

My money is on the AstroMaster at the moment, just going by the specs and photos available online, and what you hope to use it for.

As far as I am aware, a CG3 is the same mount as an EQ-2, a CG4 is an EQ3-2.

[Torin]

Okay brain hurts and I'm not up with the lingo yet - 'erecting diagonal'? what is it and why does it help in daylight?

[Astro_Baby]

I would go for the Skywatcher over the Celestron....heres why...

The mounts are essentially the same BUT the celestron is more plasticky and less stable. The skywatcher one is all metal throughout.

The finder scope on the Celesttron is their horrid fixed thing they fit on the Astromaster 130 refelector. Its horrid...the skywatcher has a small finder scope thats not perfect but its way better than the Celestron thing which is way too bright, tough to adjust and generally nasty.

[bingevader]

Okay brain hurts and I'm not up with the lingo yet - 'erecting diagonal'? what is it and why does it help in daylight?

Most 'scopes will flip the image one way or the other, or both!

Fine for the stars, once you get used to it, but will make your humble pigeon or pterodactyl appear upside down and possibly pointing the opposite way.

What the erecting prism or diagonal does is to invert the image through the vertical axis so that terrestrial objects are the right way up even if they are still pointing the wrong way.

Cheers

[Torin]

Most 'scopes will flip the image one way or the other, or both!

Fine for the stars, once you get used to it, but will make your humble pigeon or pterodactyl appear upside down and possibly pointing the opposite way.

What the erecting prism or diagonal does is to invert the image through the vertical axis so that terrestrial objects are the right way up even if they are still pointing the wrong way.

Cheers

Thanks for the explanation - that make sense! Learning with every post!

[Torin]

I would go for the Skywatcher over the Celestron....heres why...

The mounts are essentially the same BUT the celestron is more plasticky and less stable. The skywatcher one is all metal throughout.

The finder scope on the Celesttron is their horrid fixed thing they fit on the Astromaster 130 refelector. Its horrid...the skywatcher has a small finder scope thats not perfect but its way better than the Celestron thing which is way too bright, tough to adjust and generally nasty.

Ahhhh that will be the clincher - thanks for that Astro_Baby. Must admit the 70mm Skywatcher did look a better build. Also the Celestron was £35 more so if it's a better build then I'm quids-in too. Now just need to see a 130p dob and I might be able to make a decision!... Maybe

[Naemeth]

Ahhhh that will be the clincher - thanks for that Astro_Baby. Must admit the 70mm Skywatcher did look a better build. Also the Celestron was £35 more so if it's a better build then I'm quids-in too. Now just need to see a 130p dob and I might be able to make a decision!... Maybe

I've got some pictures of mine if they would help

Sorry about the tip, I would say it's gotten better since then (picture is about a month old), but it hasn't

[Cjg]

Hi Torin,

Before you decide, go and visit your local astro society at http://www.sheffieldastro.org.uk/ they have a beginners night on Monday.

You might find folks with similar scopes to the ones you are thinking of (I had a 130P Heritage and rate it), has been loaned out a couple of times. But the comments about the Evostar make sense.

There's a full list of local societies at http://fedastro.org.uk/fas/members/

Good luck,

Chris

Chris