Skywatcher 300P Synscan V 400P Manual

[Astronolee]

I am still struggling to make my decision and this forum although excellent is making me even more confused lol...I have worked it out after adding on the cost of a decent power pack there is only about £250 difference between the skywatcher 300P synscan flextube and the manual 400P flextube...I am 99.9% sure I am going to buy the 12 inch on Wednesday but here I am asking more questions and I apologise if I am going over topics already discussed...what do I want from a scope?...I want the best observational experience I can get mostly from my mildly light polluted back garden. Saying this though I also want to take it to dark sites and I will be joining an astronomical society therefore I DO want to travel with the scope...I have read conflicting views on here on the 16 inch portability...at present I have a fairly large car and I am buying a 7 seater people carrier later in the year so I guess I can get both scopes in the car...as for weight I have bench pressed and shrugged over 80kg so I believe the weight is hopefully not a problem...as for width I understand that the base comes apart fairly easily so can be assembled each time if there are door frame problems...I also read that the best scope is the scope you will use the most but am I wrong in thinking that 16 inch views are therefore worth all this effort?...the only difference is the sysnscan goto I would get on the 12 inch...so unless I am wrong in what I have typed here it all comes down to a straight choice between Synscan or apperture...I am new to this and my knowledge of the sky is limited but it does excite me to learn and I love it when I am just out at night and now able to pick out some random objects and tell people what they are...I find most people are genuinely interested but I also guess a GOTO system will also help with your knowledge and learning...another issue I have is the time I can spend doing this. I have 3 young kids and sometimes very limited time to spend on myself so I guessed this is where a GOTO may help...if anyone can shed some final light on my first light choice I would be very grateful. What shall I buy as I really dont want to have to upgrade in a hurry. Oh and yes its my first scope and I know they are massive for a first timer but thats just the way I roll, all or nothing its just the way I tend to do things...I would really appreciate some help in making my decision from you experienced peeps...many thanks...Lee

[pallas15]

Just my own opinion.apperture is king. both scopes mentioned are big beasts,take a look on you tube at the videos available,i personally wouldn't want to lump a 400p dob around.gotos have to be realigned if moved which takes time.With no knowledge of the sky a goto will help learn but its a high price to pay when stellarium is free.A well set up goto will help you find objects quicker but looking at the threads they can be troublesome if not properly aligned.Portability for the 300 or 400 may be an issue,two people are recommended,but again thats your choice,its not so much the weight but the size of them .Think also of the extras in your budget ,red light torch,collimator, etc...id get the biggest i could afford and manage.Take into account observing,if your looking overhead with the 400 you may need steps to reach the eyepiece as dobs dont have the luxury of being able to spin the tube like a G.E.M.good luck and welcome to the rollercoaster

[John]

I'd definitely try and take a look at these scopes before deciding. There is a really large difference between a 12" and a 16" scope in physical size and handling. I can manage a 12" (non-GOTO) but even a 14" can be a 2-person job having seen one "in the flesh". I've used 16" and 20" dobs too and they seemed seriously large instruments to me

[Patrice Lanteigne]

My young daughter is getting interested in the hobby and we often have two scopes set up, both with GOTO functionality but one is an SCT and the other a fast refractor. These give very different views of the various objects being observed ("looking at" is a better description of your shared time). The GOTO is very much appreciated during those evenings, especially the tracking, because there is a lot of "Hey Dad, come look at this!" and having to recenter or loose the object from the FOV can be a problem during the switch between scopes.

[mitchelln]

Check out this thread. It has lots of useful advice.

The conclusion I came to is the 16" is just too big. It has to be taken completely to bits to get it through doors and definitely needs 2 people to lift the tube (it weighs over 30kgs!) You run the risk of spending more time wrestling with it than using it. Also, you'll need a step ladder to reach the eyepiece and your young children will struggle with this.

There's a great review of the 16" here:

It's huge!

At the end of the day, they best scope is one you use

[Sarah]

We went from the 12" FlexTube to the 16". Hubbie is just over 6' 5" and can manage the 16" tube on his own. It is probably close to the limit of what he could manage. He carries it down a couple of steps when going out into the garden. We have the GoTo version, so no doubt the base is heavier. We usually carry the base out together through our double doors, but otherwise it is easy enough to take apart into sections and put it back together. Doesn't take long at all, only a few minutes. I am about 5' 10" and need steps for most of my viewing whereas hubbie can get way without needing them. The 12" was lovely and we took it to quite a few star parties. We haven't taken the 16" to a star party yet, but hope to next month! At the end of the day, the 12" is a more manageable size/weight, but the extra aperture of the 16" makes any extra effort well worth it! But it will come down to whether or not you can manage the 16" tube. Either option would be a great scope!

EDIT: I forgot to say, we prefer the GoTo as we are constantly taking it in turns to look through the eyepiece, so having the tracking is really helpful. The first night we tried the 16", we used it manually and I found that after hubbie had found an object, by the time I got the steps in place and I was up at the eyepiece the object had almost or had drifted out of the field of view.

[kirkster501]

Hi lee, as a newbie I think you are already stretching yourself getting a 12" never mind a 16". Are you familiar with handling telescopes and optics of this size? You can always upgrade to the bigger scope later after you have more experience and higher quality eyepieces. There is no rush to go ultra big that quickly mate. Steve

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[John]

Another thing that is worth bearing in mind is not to blow the whole budget on the scope. These big dobsonians really benefit from good quality eyepieces to perform at their best and those don't come cheap. Personally I think you would need to budget around £500 for some nice eyepieces, assuming that you would want at least one 2" one and well corrected, wide angle views, which are so nice with these large aperture scopes.

[Moonshane]

see my thread aimed at just this quandry http://stargazerslounge.com/topic/174263-when-scopes-start-to-get-big/. as said above, there's a world of difference between the bulk and weight of a 12" and a 16" scope.

a 16" Skywatcher base is very large indeed but the flex nature helps a little with the OTA bulk.

that said, the views from my garden (9 miles from Manchester) are very much more impressive through the 16" than my old 12". the jump is definitely worth it if you can handle and store/transport the weight.

as john says, good quality eyepieces are useful with large scopes but in all honesty I use my TV plossls just as much as my nagler and Ethos so you don't have to buy the top bucks eyepieces.

[scarp15]

Think also as to each scenario in which you will use the scope, I only use mine (300 flextube) on trips to dark sky locations to get the most out of the aperture. Portablilty of the 12" flextube is managable by one person into a compact hatchback, the 14" and 16" would be desirable, as the bases can be dismantled, but I would not like to say if two people will be required to handle the weight of the ota.

Certainly try and get to see these scopes to appreciate fully the scale, by visiting a star party, an outing with an astro group or at a retailer. However once you own a larger dob they do tend to 'shrink' with time as you get more use to them.

[kirkster501]

Also don't forget it is very easy from the comfort of an armchair looking at specs and weights and buying the very biggest you have budget for. That's a dangerous game for a novice astronomer and you could end up with something so big it's not usable for you. A 8" or 12"" Dob that gets used is a lot better investment than a 16" that after a hard day at work you just cannot be bothered to take out. Many have been burnt by that one, me included.

Not being negative Lee and I too am after a large Dob. But I now know how large telescope are and how tricky they can be to handle and store (what's THAT she says...!). I am a big chap, can bench 20 reps of 100kg+bar easily. I even have easy and cooled storage by way of a large garage. But I am going for the 300p, I simply would not use the 16 as much. And that I know from experience.

Just some thoughts to add before you decide for final.

[Moonshane]

in reality most astronomers have more than one scope. I have three. a 16" f4 dob (main scope and I use this as much as I can), a 6" f11 dob which I use as my grab and go / planetary / lunar scope (cools a lot quicker for those nights when it looks clear now but conditions worsening) and a 12" f4 dob which will eventually be a travel dob.

[kirkster501]

If you ignore the stupid music - put computer on silent since there is no talking at all - this is a quite interesting video showing what this chap is up to with his 300P. Great idea the trolley! Could do soemthign similar with a couple of cheap sack trolleys from B+Q.

[Moonshane]

it looks well built but would you want to do that every time you observe? I'd sooner have my sack truck

[kirkster501]

Cool - that's an idea I had as well Moonshane. However, in the thread you linked to. I particularly like the hinged ramp thing you made ! That is most ingenious! I shall be making one of those tomorrow

[Astronolee]

Thankyou everyone for sharing your advice...I have been researching this for seemingly ages and I have tried out many scopes over last few months...I have made mind up now...Yaaaay...I will be purchasing on wednesday (unless the sales person talks me into something else lol)...drum roll please...a 12 inch synscan 300P SW Dob...and I wont be changing my mind again...I agree with some comments here about more than 1 scope too...I really fancy a solar scope to be honest and I may look into a refractor with a view to learn AP one day but thats all in the future...thanks 2 everyone on here and I will post my experience in unboxing and first light over the next couple of weeks :-)

[kirkster501]

It won't be far into the future either Lee. Remember though that the Dob is a visual scope. For AP you need a GEM mount and OTA, and cameras and a whole universe of bits and bobs with a wallet to match.

I think you are making a wise decision with the 300p. If you'd bought the 400p there would be one coming up on ABS shortly - Yours when you realised how big it was!

Cheers, Steve

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[Chris]

If it was me I'd go for the 12" goto, 12" is still serious aperture, the visuals of my 8" have given me some wows so I think 12" will knock your socks off!

Has said, the best scope is the one you use the most and often the window of opportunity is small, so do you wan't to have the extra time needed for a big mirror to cool and to get a big scope out? I think the idea of a 16" Dob is great but only if I already have a smaller scope to make the most of those smaller gaps in the clouds.

p.s. I also agree with the eyepiece advice it really makes a big difference! I say BST for planetary and a nice Explore Scientific 82 degree for low mag widefield DSO's:)