TAL 125RS - Direct from the Mother Russia

[SnakeyJ]

After seeing a lot of posts about the the TAL125RS and limited availability, I thought I'd try and go straight to the source and was quite surprised to get the following prompt reply:

From: LZOS [lzos@inbox.ru]

Sent: 29 January 2013 14:31

To: Jake Gully

Subject: proposal for Refractor 5 TAL-125R Telescope

Dear Jake,

Thanks for your inquiry and interest in our company products.

Our company delivers the goods worldwide to End-Users through International Air Mail that is more cheapest and reliable way proved by time as well as we deliver by DHL / UPS / EMS Express mail that is the quickest ways.

TAL-125R is available in stock.

Unit price of TAL-125R optical tube assembly without mount is US$1250.00;

Please see technical description herewith enclosed and in our web-site: www.lzos.ru

Delivery by International Air Mail of the goods in the properly packed parcel (up to 22kgs) to a postal address in England costs US $190.60 (inclusive of all duties, taxes and expenses). Delivery time is within 7 - 10 days.

Delivery by EMS / UPS Express Mail of the goods in the properly packed parcel (up to 22 kg) to your home doors in England costs US $289.00 (inclusive of all duties, taxes and expenses). Delivery time is within 5 days.

When you get this parcel you would no need to pay any other duties or taxes.

As soon as payment is made the ordered goods are properly packed and sent to a contact person name and postal address.

We work on condition of 100% down payment. There are only few methods of payment transfer to Russia:

- bank transfer to our company representative account (time of money transfer is 3-4 days);

- money cash /credit / debit card transfer by Western Union service. How to transfer please see at: http://www.westernunion.com

- money cash / credit / debit card transfer by Money Gram service. How to transfer please see at: http://www.moneygram.com

last two methods are the most preferable and quick for payment (time of transfer is only 15 minutes) - we give you 10 USD discount from total sum from your order!

In both cases I will send you an invoice for 100% down payment.

Thus in case of your agreement to procure the goods directly from us on above noted terms please inform us a payment method you choose from possible two ones, delivery method, your exact postal address with postal code and contact name,

In case if you like to procure the goods paying through PayPal credit card or only from European company please let us know and I will give you a reference link of our partner in Europe and it can help you I guess.

Thanks again for your interest in our company products and looking forward to having a successful deal with you.

Best regards,

Maxim Yesipov

Executive officer

Optics Group firm, LLC

Exclusive distributor of Lytkarino Optical Glass Factory, JSC

Internet: http://www.lzos.ru

Not that I'm in the market, but going by the excellent reviews it's something to consider for future. Not so sure that I would want to wire the money in advance to Moscow, but it would be a great trip if Aeroflot were lenient on the hand baggage Even better if you could slip past customs at heathrow, though I think a 1.4m long box with Russian Markings is likely to draw some attention, probably from Police and Customs!

[Astro_Baby]

Amazed you got a response. i tried mailing them ages ago and got nowhere, tried on and off for various bits and never got a sausage back.

[John]

Interesting you got a response.

Thats a total of £950-£1012 delivered depending on the delivery service used.

[SnakeyJ]

Blind luck I think Astro_Baby, still it looks a cosha response so I will reply back and see where it goes. It would be nice to take a punt, but not sure how the price compares with those who have sourced via Italy - probably more a pipe dream at the moment! A very nice 6" pipe that is. My friends at work were speculating that this is probably part of Russia's guns to plough shears/arms reduction effort and by coincidence the tube is exactly the right diameter for the main armament of a T80 or T64 tank.

[SnakeyJ]

Interesting you got a response.

Thats a total of £950-£1012 delivered depending on the delivery service used.

John - thanks, it looks a lot better like that Do you think this sounds about the right money for this as OTA only?

[Marki]

Cool - good that you got a response, Jake. But Tecnosky sell for eu780, about £670 (but add delivery costs) - still way cheaper than importing directly from the Motherland, even if you go for an expensive delivery option. The only faff is gettign an Italian VAT code, but its really easy (just do a google search and therre are planty of sites that tell you how). The EU/GBP exchange rate is a little less favourable now than when I bought mine from Giuliano, but still not far off.

[AndyH]

The world famous LZOS selling Tals ???? Wow.

That'll be why it's a bit more expensive then.

[AndyH]

LZOS do have Tal listings(thanks to Nicnac for posting that a while back), but they are more expensive than Tal's list price.

[John]

John - thanks, it looks a lot better like that Do you think this sounds about the right money for this as OTA only?

I think it's quite a bit too much to be honest with you. £600 would be more reasonable. It's a 5" achromat at the end of the day.

[AndyH]

Wouldn't it be nice if all the Russian manufacturers all ganged together and could send a container load of products on a slow boat via the baltic to a UK/European central dealer/importer. What kills em all are their use of air freight.

[SnakeyJ]

Cool - good that you got a response, Jake. But Tecnosky sell for eu780, about £670 (but add delivery costs) - still way cheaper than importing directly from the Motherland, even if you go for an expensive delivery option. The only faff is gettign an Italian VAT code, but its really easy (just do a google search and therre are planty of sites that tell you how). The EU/GBP exchange rate is a little less favourable now than when I bought mine from Giuliano, but still not far off.

Thanks Mark, that's quite a difference in price in favour of the Italian route - I was hoping to find a cheaper/faster route

Now that talk of VAT is making me wonder if I can't justify the optics for work, might just be able to get it past the accountants as optical test and measurement equipment.

[AndyH]

Wouldn't it be nice if all the Russian manufacturers all ganged together and could send a container load of products on a slow boat via the baltic to a UK/European central dealer/importer. What kills em all are their use of air freight.

Mmmm. What's the Russian ambassador to the UK's email address

[John]

Wouldn't it be nice if all the Russian manufacturers all ganged together and could send a container load of products on a slow boat via the baltic to a UK/European central dealer/importer. What kills em all are their use of air freight.

Perhaps we should club together, hire a truck and go on an expedition to Siberia

We could invite someone to make a documentary and write a book to cover some of the costs - "The Great Telescope Race"

[Marki]

LOL Andy - how many TALs can you fit in a diplomatic pouch anyway .

Sounds like a nice scheme John...where do I sign up . Mmm - long way to Siberia, might have to take day or two off work to make that trip!

[AndyH]

Perhaps we should club together, hire a truck and go on an expedition to Siberia

We could invite someone to make a documentary and write a book to cover some of the costs - "The Great Telescope Race"

Oh God.

Don't give Tony ideas. I can just visualise him setting up a trip in a longboat, in Viking garb, travelling down the Volga into the heart of Russia, shouting 'we have come for your scopes'

[AndyH]

Mmm. In the interest of good Geography, I think I ballsed up on the Volga.

[John]

Mmm. In the interest of good Geography, I think I ballsed up on the Volga.

I'm not letting you navigate then Andy

[nightfisher]

Perhaps we should club together, hire a truck and go on an expedition to Siberia

We could invite someone to make a documentary and write a book to cover some of the costs - "The Great Telescope Race"

I could be the wheel man, thats what i do for a living, funny thing i have a contact in russia alexsi that might be prepared to bring tal stuff

[SnakeyJ]

Actually I've also found this listed at House of Optics http://www.hoo-germany.de/product_info.php/info/p42_TAL-125R-Refraktor-OTA.html at Eur699 + delivery. The price looks rather better, though a journery to Germany lacks the romance of travelling to Russia.

House of Optics seem to be located in Heinsberg near Monchengladbach, though looks like an online operation - might just drop them a line.

[AndyH]

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news..........

HOO(Germany) do not have any and aren't getting any in, in the near future, I'm afraid. I contacted them when Marki was looking around.

When I asked Yuri Elovenko, at the factory(NPZ/Tal), it was him that suggested using Tecnosky.

[SnakeyJ]

Andy,

Thanks - not good news, but saves the heartache of an endless wait! Shame as I could have tied this in with a trip to see my brother in Germany. I have responded to LZOS, but not expecting the price to drop sufficiently to make this viable, but I'll allow a couple of days.

Failing this I will e-mail Italy/Tecnosky and confirm price/availability and see if I can get the Italian VAT number sorted.

Cheers to all contributors this thread - Jake

[AndyH]

If you are very, VERY handy*, you could always just buy the 125R lens cell from the factory(it is possible), and build an OTA around it. I think they are about £150 base cost.

* ie: access to a large-ish lathe

[SnakeyJ]

If you are very, VERY handy*, you could always just buy the 125R lens cell from the factory(it is possible), and build an OTA around it. I think they are about £150 base cost.

* ie: access to a large-ish lathe

Thanks Andy - As it happens I do have a rather old hobbyist lathe, and an CSE in metalwork from a long time ago - though to be honest I'm more of an impatient bodger and lack any flare for engineering finesse! A few years ago I turned some components for mini and micro hybrid rocket motors though most of this was very simple/straightforward. It would be hard to get something as elegant, light weight and internally baffled to the same degree - not to say it wouldn't be worth attempting. I did spend some time perusing with awe the recent thread on the Great Wetherall Telescope - what a beauty.

[F15Rules]

A fascinating thread and I'm amazed you got such a detailed reply...far more so than when I tried in vain to liase direct with Tal a couple of years ago. I even tried through my then business contacts in Germany who had a Russian employee, to try to get one shipped across land. They just didn't want to know. It's a shame that Tal seems to be run by opticians who don't have a clue on how to run a commercial business!

Speaking as a Tal scopes fan of some years' standing, and as a previous owner of 5 Tal 100s/rs's and the hen's-teeth-rare 125R being discussed here, I really do like these scopes...BUT: without wanting to be a damp old squib, there are a couple of things here that really would concern me and I do suggest caution here. Consider:

• The scope is an achromat. It's a good achromat (when properly configured, think of Marki's experience), but it's still an achromat, built somewhat industrially..with the price being quoted, you are not THAT far away from Skylight territory!
  
• I really don't like the 100% payment upfront requirement: if something goes wrong, how do you get redress from Siberia??
  
• Despite what they say about no further liability for taxes etc, I don't believe that. Russia is not in the EU so in my book you WOULD be liable for VAT and possible customs duties as well - and that really would take the cost up to Skylight territory!
  
• You can get a new Tal 100RS fully loaded for under £300. The 125R is bigger, does go deeper, but is simply not worth 3 or 4 times more than the 100RS.
  

So in summary, I'd really say this is a case of "Caveat Emptor", Buyer beware!

Having poured all this cold water on Snakey's proposal, I'd still like to join the cruise up the Volga...would be quite an experience to drink vodka, eat caviar and watch the Milky Way from deepest Russia

Good luck Snakey, if you do decide to take the plunge...I hope it all goes smoothly for you.

cheers

Dave

[AndyH]

Bear in mind that email was not from Tal/NPZ in Novosibirsk, but from LZOS in Moscow, who are glass suppliers to Tal(and probably most others). Some of the best Apo's use glass from there. Quality outfit, but they're obviously putting a premium onto Tal's list price.

ALL Russian manufacturers seem to only want to use air freight. This is partly the reason why Tal, Intes-Micro, etc stuff is so expensive now, along with the neverending high inflation rate. The days of cheap-ish Russian equipment is long gone.

The UK price for the 100RS is still a bargain. Really is.

I agree with you Dave, that if they opened up and at the least, sold to individuals direct(easily), they would get a never ending queue. I'd quite happily move to Novosibirsk and do the job as long as they paid me in beer, vodka, cheap Russian Cigs and gave me a season ticket to the ice hockey club Novosibirsk Sibir. Yuri at the factory is a Godsend though. I don't know where I'd be for his help. Mind you I'm defo on the MI6 watch list thanks to correspondance and shady looking parcels I've had delivered.

For big stuff, I personally would use Tecnosky or the Estonian dealer.

Andy