New Skywatcher Allview Multi-Function Computerised Mount.

[Andrew*]

This will potentially be my grab and go mount. I'll order it as soon as the heatwave is finished by the end of this week No, seriously I couldn't make much use of the clear skies because of the heat recently...quite a Polar bear myself Don't have the physical capacity to deal with hot weather

Anyway, here goes:

1- I was planning on buying a go-to handset for my NEQ6 ( after few months of using EQMod, I realized I'm too lazy to spend time setting up and connecting to the computer and so on and ended up using only the syntrek handset), so it's a bonus that I can use the same handset for the NEQ6. I understand you can flash the handset so it'll automatically turn into equatorial mode once connected to the NEQ6?

2- I like the unique versatility this mount offers. I do time lapse videos of the clouds mostly (trust me, if you pay more attention to the clouds you'll discover how amazing they are - clear sky during the day is a bit boring. I'll probably change my mind once moved to solar imaging). So yes, being able to use the same mount for panoramic imaging, time lapse and astronomical observation is a large bonus.

3 - Astronomical use -- this is the bit I want to be 100% sure about. The only portable telescope I have is the 80ED, so in principle the mount will be 'welded' to this telescope. My main concern is the weight. OK, here's the scope and accessories list I'm planning on mounting: 80ED tube/rings/dovetail + 2 inch diagonal + finder scope (either 9x50 or Altair Astro RACI 10x60) + eyepiece ( big eyepieces will be any of the following: Baader Hyperion 8mm, SW panorama 15mm, Maxvision 20mm or ExSc 24mm). I estimate all will be under 5Kg. So it should be OK for visual?

The images presented by Skywatcher show an 80ED with all accessories. Has FLO tested it with the 80ED or a similar scope??

4 - Exposure time in astronomical mode - can I do exp. for more than 60 seconds??

5 - The mount build - what's the percentage of plastic vs metal?

6- Silly question here, I never used an alt-az mount. So how do you go about polar aligning it?

Thanks!!!

Emad

Hi Emad, I've used this mount with a TV 85 so I can answer some of your questions.

2. Just remember it's an Alt-az so not suitable for tracked astro-imaging.

3. I think it will handle the ED80 quite comfortably with those accessories. Just needs to be well-balanced.

4. Even 60 seconds will probably be pushing it. Precise polar aligning isn't really possible and field rotation will be a problem.

5. Mount housing is all plastic, and on the flimsy side, but the main underlying structure is metal and seems sturdy enough for most purposes.

6. Point it at Polaris and press a button. Easy as that! Problem is you won't be right on the NCP.

[emadmoussa]

Hi Emad, I've used this mount with a TV 85 so I can answer some of your questions.

2. Just remember it's an Alt-az so not suitable for tracked astro-imaging.

3. I think it will handle the ED80 quite comfortably with those accessories. Just needs to be well-balanced.

4. Even 60 seconds will probably be pushing it. Precise polar aligning isn't really possible and field rotation will be a problem.

5. Mount housing is all plastic, and on the flimsy side, but the main underlying structure is metal and seems sturdy enough for most purposes.

6. Point it at Polaris and press a button. Easy as that! Problem is you won't be right on the NCP.

Thanks, Andrew!

I'm not planning on using it for astro-photography (would be an bonus if I could), but as a grab-and-go for visual. So assuming for visual you can keep track of the object without having to drift align repeatedly?

[Andrew*]

Yes, it tracks reasonably well and of course you are free to undo the clutches. The dual encoders work well.

[emadmoussa]

Mmm...I'm now few clicks away from ordering it. But I'm thinking I might just settle with an EQ3-2 goto as a grab and go... mmmm!!!

[Psychobilly]

Small EQ is the way I went ... In my case it ws the EQ3 Pro so I had a guideport and EQMOD compatability...

Peter...

[emadmoussa]

Yes, I am actually leaning towards the EQ3-2 synacan. after all, it's like a mini NEQ6...Will probably press the button tonight

[Psychobilly]

If there is even the slightest possibility that your grab and go will be used for astro imaging - even if it's just wide field with camera lenses then EQ is the way to go Alt/Az is fine for visual or terrestrial photography such and panos...

Good luck with your purchase

Peter...

[emadmoussa]

OK, sorted, EQ3-2 Synscan is coming tomorrow ...best of both worlds

[Psychobilly]

Does it come with a polarscope? If not fit one and take your time making sure it's properly cantered in the mount...

Just using the polarscope to do the polar alignment I was able to easily and repeatedly get 4 min unguided subs up to 100mm FL...

For widefield use A short length of dovetail fitted with a ball and socket head gives plenty of flexibility if camera positioning and also allows you to avoid the need to do a meridian flip when imaging around the meridian by offsetting the camera...I have never bothered with doing star alignment I just skip it on the handset and manually enable sidereal tracking...

Congrats and enjoy

Peter...

[emadmoussa]

Hi Pete, thanks for the tip. I'll have a go tonight.

Yes it does come with a polarscope already fitted. FedEx delivered the mount 30 minutes ago - I'll finish my coffee and read all the news online then the unboxing. I'll post some photos - I'm sure it's not only me who thinks unboxing images are a very exciting thing

[Omnipaulus]

Dear all,

Do you think this mount would bear the load of a Celestron XLT120 refractor? I am a bit short of cash at the moment and any larger GO TO is way over my limited budget. Would thiis mount be a waste of money for my scope?

Thanks for all your help...

Paulo.

[emadmoussa]

Dear all,

Do you think this mount would bear the load of a Celestron XLT120 refractor? I am a bit short of cash at the moment and any larger GO TO is way over my limited budget. Would thiis mount be a waste of money for my scope?

Thanks for all your help...

Paulo.

I think it will handle a 120mm refractor...teetering on the limit though.

[valleyman]

Looks like a good bit of kit. What I would like to know is there a Stand alone bracket for mounting the Camera to a GOTO PRO mount.

 

Pat

[FLO]

The Allview is supplied with an L-bracket so you can attach cameras via a standard ¼-20 tripod bush. 

For other mounts like the Skywatcher AZ GOTO or Celestron SLT and SE series you can buy a separate L-bracket like the one below. 

HTH

[udaiveer]

Can  the SW All-View Mount (Head only) be mounted onto a Video tripod (acting as a Wedge) and made to Align the Az axis to NCP-SCP AXIS?

Yes I know in theory it shud work, but not sure how will the GoTo Hand Controller be able to accept EQ Operational mode.

I read in a manual that the SynScan (Ver 3.3 onwards) can be set to either AZ or EQ mode for go to tracking. or it "reads" the mount attached and it set to use the mode of the Mount.

Or if this can't then can't I fool the SynScan and set my location to b the North Pole???

0.00N, 00E 

after setting the AllView mount-head like an EQ mount, then Polaris will allways be on the Zenith relative to the mount.

This way, won't it behave like an EQ?

sorry if it's a stupid idea, but I am going to buy this soon.

[alfingido]

I know this is an older topic, but I read it through hoping someone had done some testing with something like a Skywatcher 80ED ds pro. FLO we're going to do some testing but I can't find any results.I fancy getting this scope but need to know if the mount will handle it comfortably.

Don't want to spend £800 on a Minitower if this mount is capable.

Allan

[FLO]

Don't want to spend £800 on a Minitower if this mount is capable.

Allan

An Allview will carry an Evostar 80 ED PRO it would be working at the upper limit of it's payload capacity. We are not an Ioptron dealer so don't have experience of the Minitower but looking at it on the Altair Astro website it looks larger and more capable than the Allview. To be fair it costs considerably more so should be. 

HTH, 

Steve 

[jzax]

On 16/10/2012 at 21:37, davy999 said:

Tried to align on the sun... oh dear.. only gives option of daytime objects or stars, and the sun is not mentioned.

I told it to go to Mercury (as this is close to the sun) and then moved a little to get sun in view.

Whilst there is no sun menu there is solar tracking, so turned that on.

Tracking was quite poor, obviously because it's alt/az and couldnt really figure out what the heck to do. It was ok for visual but the sun would noticably move in less than a minute so it was not suitable for imaging, so I switched back to the SE mount so as not to waste some decent clear skies.

I will try again another day but first attempts were not promising.

Dave

 

I just saw this comment by chance today

The last version of the Synscan for the AllView mount indeed includes the sun as alignment possibility (and go-to). I have firmware version 4.38.09

 

[docsimple]

Hi jzax,

I just bought one of these and was disappointed to see that it wasn't so great for astrophotography. Do you know if the updated firmware has made it better for the astrophotography? I think for the price I'll still be happy to use it.

Thanks

[Cornelius Varley]

1 minute ago, docsimple said:

Hi jzax,

I just bought one of these and was disappointed to see that it wasn't so great for astrophotography. Do you know if the updated firmware has made it better for the astrophotography? I think for the price I'll still be happy to use it.

Thanks

The reason the mount is not suitable for astrophotography is because it is an alt-az mount. The way alt az mounts track across the sky (in a zig-zag motion) means that over a short period of time the part of the sky being imaged will rotate. This is called field rotation. Keeping exposures short (less than 30seconds) can help to reduce the effects of field rotation, but it is not a cure. There is a long thread in the beginners section called the no eq dso challenge which shows what can be done with an alt-az mount.

?updating the firmware will not make the mount more suitable for imaging.

[FLO]

40 minutes ago, docsimple said:

I just bought one of these and was disappointed to see that it wasn't so great for astrophotography. Do you know if the updated firmware has made it better for the astrophotography? I think for the price I'll still be happy to use it.

I think you must have purchased it from one of our competitors.

Nowhere here at SGL or at our website have we said it is a good choice for astrophotography. It isn't. 

Indeed here in this thread we went out of our way to make it clear: 

 

On 17/09/2012 at 10:16, FLO said:

Alt-Azimuth mounts are not well suited to astrophotography, consider instead a German Equatorial Mount (often referred to as GEQ mount).

Having said that, you can achieve exposures around 60 seconds using a DSLR with standard lens before star trailing becomes noticeable.

 

On 17/09/2012 at 16:07, FLO said:

This is one of those things that is best explained with diagrams and pictures, perhaps if someone has a photo that shows stars revolving around Celestial North they might post it here in this thread, please.

Here goes

We are standing on a planet revolving on it's axis. If we project the centre of the axis up into space it points to 'Celestial North' (at least it does for us living in the northern hemisphere). Fortunately the Pole Star is almost precisely positioned at Celestial North and is easy to find. If we put a camera on a regular photo-tripod, point it at the Pole Star then leave the shutter open for more than a minute or two, the photo will clearly show stars revolving around it (it is actually our planet that is revolving, not the stars).

Alt-Az mounts move in two directions: Altitude (up-down) and Azimuth (left-right). So when an alt-az mount follows the arc of a star moving across the sky it does so in tiny imperceptible steps (up a bit, right a bit, up a bit, right a bit... and so on). An observer looking through the eyepiece won't notice the steps, it appears as a continuous motion. He also won't notice the sky rotating in the eyepiece field of view because it happens slowly, over time. If however you are photographing the sky for several minutes the camera will record rotation and the stars will leave trails of light.

A 'German Equatorial Mount' overcomes this because it is setup with one axis (Right Ascension/RA) pointing directly at the Celestial North (the mount is then 'polar aligned'). This way the telescope/camera revolves around the same axis as the stars, so the stars don't rotate within the field of view. And because only one motor/axis is used the tracking is smooth (compared to an alt-az mount). Perfect for astrophotography

In a nutshell: Alt-Az is great for visual observers wanting a compact easy to setup mount. German Equatorial is more complicated (it looks like a bag of bagpipes to the inexperienced!) but is necessary for astrophotography.

That explanation might generate some "yes-but" responses, and they will be right, but for this purpose I think it is okay.

HTH,

Steve

Picture shows the same telescope on two GOTO mounts. German Equatorial on the left, Alt-Az on the right:

Hope that helps  

Steve 

[docsimple]

Thanks for the replies. I spent a few hours reading last night and just made myself sad. Not only will it not do the AP it also won't hold anything larger than an 80mm refractor. So as far as I can tell it is useless for any real photography or star viewing. Now I may be showing my lack of knowledge here. Maybe the 80mm is just fine, but from what I have read it's not nearly as good as the 100mm.

Since the box is now sitting in my garage and I am heading out to the desert next Monday for a school campout in which I was really hoping to do something fun with this.... suggestions? I am on the edge of returning it as it seems to be mostly a toy. Again, I would love to be wrong about this.

You are right Steve I did not get that information from you or anyone here. I rushed into a purchase and researched after. Very dumb.

Why would anyone by the alt/az mounts? Is it worth having one of each?

[FLO]

1 hour ago, docsimple said:

I am on the edge of returning it as it seems to be mostly a toy. Again, I would love to be wrong about this.

You are right Steve I did not get that information from you or anyone here. I rushed into a purchase and researched after. Very dumb.

It clearly isn't the right mount for you. 

You should contact your supplier, tell them you have made a mistake and ask if they will take it back. If they do the right thing, look after you, then reward them by purchasing from them something more suitable for astrophotography. 

Consider also buying Steve Richards excellent book 'Making Every Photon Count' (I think he delivers to the US) and joining an American forum like Cloudy Nights (SGL is based in the UK). 

HTH, 

Steve 

[docsimple]

So after cooling down I thought it over. I'm going to look and try to find a telescope that will maximize the mount. In the meantime I will try it out for what it is meant to do. Also I'll try to get 15-30 second wide angle shots from my m4/3 camera w/ 12 mm lens. Should be interesting at least, and educational. Later when I am able to correctly identify my nether regions from my elbow with respect to astronomy I can decide how much I want to spend. At that point I could get one of the camera only eq mounts or maybe step up and get a nice (read > than 1K$) mounts with a larger scope.

I tend to want to buy the best so I get less frustrated with poorly executed devices. This usually serves me well, but every time this mount doesn't do what I want it too I will have to manually make it find what I want, and again I will learn something. I got it new For $360 and they threw in a freebie so realistically about $330, and since I feel this is pretty much a toy at that price it doesn't hurt. Another $3-600 for the scope and I can play around. I don't see myself getting a German eq of any quality for that money. 

So still looking for scope recommendations for this mount though.

I have to admit, needing a serial port connection is ridiculous. Surely they could add a workable adapter or new cable to remove this frustration. I feel like I should be listening to Nirvana while washing my flannel shirts....

Anyway, I do appreciate the input and hope I don't regret this decision. If I do it certainly won't be my most expensive mistake

 

*edit: I looked for that book. Amazingly not available in the US that I can find. We have a fabulous bookstore here in Portland though, called Powells city of books. They have a stack of new and used Astrophotography books and I will head down there soon for 2 or 3.

[The Admiral]

Don't be too disheartened! A lot of folk on this forum pour cold water on using an Alt-Az mount for astrophotography, but provided you know and respect its limitations you can get a long way into the art and get respectable results. If you look at the No EQ Challenge thread linked to above, you'll see! I have a Nexstar SE mount and use it with my 102mm refractor and digital camera. I can't image above 60 degrees altitude, but that is where field rotation gets bad anyway, so it's no great hardship. Another contributor (Filroden) has used an 80mm refractor on an EVO mount, with astro camera and filter wheel, very successfully.

The fact is, there is quite a learning curve with imaging so be prepared to spend time, and if you want "all singing, all dancing" kit be prepared to spend, spend spend! Alt-Az imaging is a good way to "cut you teeth", so in my view use what you have to get a grasp of the basics and see if you're still keen. Certainly use your camera to get some wide field shots, and learning the same image processing techniques that you'd use with a telescope, you'll be amazed at what's out there. But, most importantly, don't rush in to your next purchase until you have good idea of what it is you want to do. No quick fix I'm afraid, but don't give up at the first hurdle.

Another book I'd recommend highly is "Astro-photography on the Go - using short exposures on light mounts" by Joseph Ashley.

Ian