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DBK 618 Problem.

Virgoman

By Virgoman
in Discussions - Cameras

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Virgoman

Virgoman

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Hi everyone and apologies if this subject has already been aired. I am now in a position and was about to purchase an IS DBK 618 camera to replace my Philips which I have been using for a number of years. Unfortunately I am concerned about the presence of a Bayer grid artifact appearing in user images. Is anyone experiencing this? I understand that the DMK does not suffer from this but I really do not want to go to the extra expense and hassle of using filters. Can the DBK618 still be recommended or are that any alternatives in the £300 - £400 price range? All comments greatly appreciated.

Best regards,

Ralph

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gary1968

gary1968

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I have the dbk version. I have had 1 outing with it so far and can't say that there is any apparent grid artifact. However, it does show 2 parallel lines at 30fps if the gain is set in the upper range. Although when imaging jupiter I did not need the gain that high so they didn't appear.

I would say it is a decent camera, very sensitive. I am still trialing mine though as it aint had much use due to summer/weather, I have the option of returning it if I aint happy, but I must say, 1st impressionable ate that it looks positive.

HTH,

Gaz

from my U8815 using Tapatalk 2

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Space Cowboy

Space Cowboy

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I have the dfk 618 version (purchased 2011) which has the bayer grid pattern issue but only when using 60fps.

The problem was addressed by imaging source but now the 2012 cameras suffer the parallel line problem mentioned by Gaz at 30fps but 60fps is now fine. As far as I understand it these problems only ocurr when using RAW data (y800) and does not effect the other colour codecs.

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Virgoman

Virgoman

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Hi Gaz. Thanks for the reply. I know that IS has released firmware updates that have drastically reduced one problem and created another. Firmware update 1028 reduces the Bayer pattern at 60fps but causes the vertical line phenomenon at 30fps. The previous firmware version 1021 showed the bayer pattern @60fps but all other possible frame rates are fine according to IS. Who did you purchase your camera from?

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eyepod

eyepod

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Last I read about this, IS had said they weren't going to fix it, which didn't really impress me much. It's not like they're exactly cheap.

James

I agree with James on this one. I got a refund on mine (DFK618) as i was not happy with the 2 grid lines at 30fps. On Jupiter it probably will not be a problem its a large bright target, but mars and more likely Saturn will be a different matter. These are very good camera's and i cannot understand why IS will not fix this problem, they are not cheap and they should work as advertised.

best regards

Jason

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riklaunim

riklaunim

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These are very good camera's and i cannot understand why IS will not fix this problem, they are not cheap and they should work as advertised.

As it would be unprofitable for them. Those are machine vision cameras and their main usage is totally different than astronomy. Fixing such problems would quite like require electronics redesign and then pushing those changes to production lines. Not cheap or easy. There are other machine vision companies that have astronomically usable cameras. At the moment Point Grey and also IDS, Basler are popular. Some new ones may show up too.

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Space Cowboy

Space Cowboy

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Hi Stuart, I didn`t know about the codec aspect. What codec do you mostly use? Can you recommend the camera as a worthwhile upgrade from my Philips?

Best regards,

Ralp

I mainly use the YUY2 codec which does a maximum of 30fps. At the focal length I use for Jupiter 60fps is too noisy because of the high gain needed. In decent conditions 30fps in my opinion is best.

If I'm doing an animation and taking lots of avis then I would use the y800 codec as it uses less than half the disc space.

I'd far rather work around the issues mentioned above than have the hassle of RGB filters with a DMK.

For sure the DFK/DBK is better than the spc900 especially in average conditions though the webcam performs well in good seeing.

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JamesF

JamesF

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As it would be unprofitable for them. Those are machine vision cameras and their main usage is totally different than astronomy. Fixing such problems would quite like require electronics redesign and then pushing those changes to production lines. Not cheap or easy. There are other machine vision companies that have astronomically usable cameras. At the moment Point Grey and also IDS, Basler are popular. Some new ones may show up too.

I absolutely agree with you, but from my point of view that makes me unwilling to part with money for one. If it has faults that affect its ability to be used in the way you are led to believe it can be used when it is sold then I think that's wrong. When the time comes for me to buy a new planetary imaging camera, I shall be looking at the other options first. I'm sure they probably won't care.

James

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neil phillips

neil phillips

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Mono is best. I dont get lines at either 30 fps or 60 fps. At opposition. i will easily be able shoot 60fps. Gain will be higher. But still usable, and i will have thousands of frames to control the remaining noise that the higher gain produces. with healthy histograms on red and green channels. The advantage of 60 fps isnt so much the amount of frames pe se. as winjupos now allows plenty at 30 fps at lower noise gain. The real advantage will be shooting at a much faster exposure, beating seeing more effectively on less than ideal nights, than at 30 fps. Theres no way around it. if you want better images. the spc is a bit long in the tooth. Its good, but not great. Mono is hassle. but then you get a great lunar camera. and venus uv camera too. worth considering i think. I think Stuarts dfk rocks. No worrys on hes images ? you do get a great 30 fps camera. if the codec or firmware can be confimed to produce no lines. i wonder what firmware Stuart is using. The older firmware i guess ?

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Virgoman

Virgoman

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Hi Neil. I think Stuart may be using firmware 1021. Stefan Geissler of IS says that cameras are now shipping with firmware version 1028 which is giving the vertical lines :sad: . I suppose you could get the colour and revert to 1021. Be worried about upsetting the camera though........frying pan, fire and all that. I think I will consider the DMK also. There is no doubt it is a wonderful camera and as you say ultimately more versatile. I suppose there is really no alternative at this price point... QHY and those that Rik mentioned etc? Stefan also confirmed that the DMK suffers from none of this...............and I thought it was going to be straightforward... :rolleyes:

Cheers,

Ralph

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gary1968

gary1968

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Hi Gaz. Who did you purchase your camera from?

Hi, I purchased if from FLO. It was bought before these problems came to light. I was concerned that as I had bought it at the start of summer I would not get a chance to test it before autumn. FLO kindly said that is could keep a hold of it untill autumn so that is could test it out. So far it has been used once, with reazonable results, showing none of the probs discussed. I am hoping to get a good chance to get out soon, this bloomin weather would drive you to drink. Lol.

Gaz

Sent from my U8815 using Tapatalk 2

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Space Cowboy

Space Cowboy

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Yes my cam has the older firmware. I only noticed the bayer pattern issue when imaging Mars, the Jupiter shots at 60fps were not affected for some reason. What put me off using 60fps was the high noise level caused by needing to have gain above 80% (on Jupiter) which meant needing to stack twice as many frames so taking away any advantage. For sure the DMK from what I've seen of comparison images has much lower noise levels.

I can't see how the vertical line issue at 30fps on the new firmware can be a big problem simply because 30fps can be achieved using the YUY2 codec. Obviously though when you are paying £350 for a new cam you don't expect it be less than 100% straight.

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riklaunim

riklaunim

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I wouldn't go for a 618 if I was going exclusively for planetary, lunar/solar yes.

ICX618 is planetary as it's small and at the moment the best thing for planetary imaging. For lunar/solar bigger sensors are better. So opposite to what you wrote ;)

D*K31 and 41 are more lunar/solar as they are slower and with bigger sensors (although color DBK31/41 aren't much useful for solar/lunar - mono is much better).

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gary1968

gary1968

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ICX618 is planetary as it's small and at the moment the best thing for planetary imaging. For lunar/solar bigger sensors are better. So opposite to what you wrote ;)

D*K31 and 41 are more lunar/solar as they are slower and with bigger sensors (although color DBK31/41 aren't much useful for solar/lunar - mono is much better).

What he said.........

Gaz

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tea drinker

tea drinker

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ICX618 is planetary as it's small and at the moment the best thing for planetary imaging. For lunar/solar bigger sensors are better. So opposite to what you wrote ;)

D*K31 and 41 are more lunar/solar as they are slower and with bigger sensors (although color DBK31/41 aren't much useful for solar/lunar - mono is much better).

I meant to edit it... it only struck me later i read DBK618 as ... DBK61 *slaps head*

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riklaunim

riklaunim

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Which is the first (price wise) long expo camera money can buy?

Atik 314E or Brightstar Mammut L429. The first one is better for short focal length refractor and lenses. Mammut would be better at moderate focal lengths due to bigger pixels.

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