Can't see any galaxies

[cantab]

So I just spent an hour and a half looking for some galaxies with the 15x70s and not finding any. I tried the Virgo cluster first, no joy there, it was really too low in the sky I think. I'm more disappointed at not being able to see M81 and M82. I definitely found exactly the right place, just checked it on Stellarium, but saw nothing non-stellar at all.

I've found fainter DSOs, like M27, in the same binoculars, so I feel they ought to have the light grasp. I can only assume the light pollution is washing out the lower surface brightness on the galaxies.

Besides the obvious solutions of finding a dark sky site or getting more aperture, what can I do to be able to see more galaxies than just M31?

[John]

I think you need to wait for darker nights. This is just about the worst time of the year to be looking for galaxies.

Under dark skies I've seen M51, M81, M82, M33 and a number of galaxies in Leo with 15x70 binoculars. It does need pretty dark skies to see them though. Especially difficult if you have not seen these objects before - I had seen them many times with scopes so knew where to look and what to expect.

So your assumption about the galaxies being washed out by other light in the sky is correct. M27 is a more obvious object than galaxies other than M31.

[Capricorn]

As said the sky is never eally dark at this time so anything faint will be washed out.

Also consider the binoculars, I assume that you are trying the 15x70's.

At night your eye pupil will be fairly wide, lets pick 7mm as it is convenient and about right.

The binoculars are 70mm so 10x bigger in diameter, that means 100x the light grasp, so 100x as much light. However they magnify by 15x which means an image 225x.

So you are taking 100x compared to what your eye will collect and spreading it over 225x the area, it is half a bright. The advantage is the increased size, but that size comes with conditions of being dimmer.

Another question: What do you expect to see ?

Through binoculars and most scopes the galaxies in the Virgo cluster will be pretty close to small dots much like stars. I have looked those at the end of Leo, Coma cluster, and it takes a little time to realise that what you are looking at are actually galaxies. They do have a size, unlike a star, but they are not going to jump out at you.

[farunj]

Maybe averted vision will help??

[ollypenrice]

It's lack of darkness down to the northern latitude and LP. I never tried Virgo in bins but M81/82 are easily seen in a 50mm finderscope from a dark site in true astronomical darkness. This is the season for enjoying our own galaxy at its best, so I'd leave the others till later in the year and get into the joys of the Milky Way!

Olly

[Tinker1947]

Where i am in the UK (Norfolk) i don't think its dark enough untill close to Midnight then starts to get light a couple of hours later, even this darkness is not the same as in the winter.

[swamp thing]

As others have pointed out you may have picked the wrong time of year to go Galaxy hunting. Where I live it does get dark enough, just, to be able to find this pair of Galaxies easy enough in my 15x70 bins. That s from out of town though. Never observe from home LP makes it too depressing to even think of doing it.

even a short drive out of town can make a massive difference. Try it.

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

The galaxies in Virgo are not the easiest in bins. I picked up M84 and M86 quite easily on a really dark night in March. I tried M81 and M82 a few days ago but no dice: too much light to the north these days. I am not surprised you could not find them. I have 265 galaxies under my belt (mostly with the trusty C8), but I could not spot them, and I know exactly where to look (after all, my first schetch of them is 32 years old;)).

Regarding M81 being brighter than M27: that concerns integrated brightness, which tells you how bright it would appear if all light from it came from a point source. More important is surface brightness which is the average brightness per square degree of sky. M27 has the higher surface brightness and is to your south, and thus in a darker region of the sky.

Weight until late summer, and M31 and M33 will be stunning. 15x70 bins are amongst the best pieces of kit to view them.

[cantab]

Another question: What do you expect to see ?

Through binoculars and most scopes the galaxies in the Virgo cluster will be pretty close to small dots much like stars. I have looked those at the end of Leo, Coma cluster, and it takes a little time to realise that what you are looking at are actually galaxies. They do have a size, unlike a star, but they are not going to jump out at you.

Hmm, I was expecting something somewhat similar to a globular cluster, which I've seen a few of, possibly a little ellispoidal depending on the galaxy. In Stellarium they definitely look extended, but I guess while fairly close that program's never 100% accurate. And of course if all that's actually seen is the core it's a lot smaller than the full extent, as I should know from having observed M31.

[LukeSkywatcher]

Averted vision is really useful when looking for or at galaxies. In my 20X90 bins, galaxies appear as light grey patches of light against the darker background of space. At first you think you are looking at thin clouds passing through your FOV until you notice that they are not moving very quickly or at a speed anything close to a cloud.

As others have said, its best to wait til the skies are really dark (as in winter) to see them.

[Double Kick Drum]

Averted vision is really useful when looking for or at galaxies. In my 20X90 bins, galaxies appear as light grey patches of light against the darker background of space. At first you think you are looking at thin clouds passing through your FOV until you notice that they are not moving very quickly or at a speed anything close to a cloud.

As others have said, its best to wait til the skies are really dark (as in winter) to see them.

All sound advice.

Remember, even in darker Autumn skies, they will still be quite feint. M81 and M82 are fairly easy to see with 15x70s. M65 and M66 in Leo are possible. M64 is also possible, as is M51 although I find it a real stretch with binoculars.

Happy hunting!

[mdstuart]

M31 is as bright as the globulars M13 etc in the bins but most others are fainter..

Try M81/82 which are the next brightest afrer M31 in the northern hemisphere which are pretty much overhead after 11pm..

Use my little finder guide here http://bristolweather.org.uk/astronomy/find.php?obj=NGC 3031

Good luck

Mark

[LukeSkywatcher]

I dont do any galaxy hunting with bins now. In fact i really dont do much binocular astronomy now (even though it was my first love). It was only when i bought my SW Heritage 130p scope that i started to see SOME structure/shape in galaxies. Now i am using a 200mm scope and there is no mistaking galaxies................because the handset tells me i am looking at one.

I digress. Binocular astronomy is great because of the stereo vision it allows. I kind of miss that now i use scopes exclusively.

P.S.~~~averted vision is something that you have to take time to learn to do effectively. It doesnt come naturally overbight. With a bit of practise, spotting and observing galaxies becomes almost second nature.

I should add that the best EP for finding/observing them is a low powered one. Something in the 25-32mm range.

Leo,Virgo and Auriga really have some lovely gems in them.