First attempts at M51 by Gina

[Gina]

Gina,

You might want to try paint.net - lots of plugins (can read raw too!) and its not restricted to 8bit!

Thank you - I'll look into that

[Gina]

Have a problem. CR2 (RAW) files have sensor temperature stored in them and APT shows this in its working log display. Now I want to access this info in CR2 files I've saved in the past so that I can match up lights and darks but I can't seem to find how. APT will browse files but JPG rather than CR2/RAW files. Canon's DPP reads the files but gives all sorts of info EXCEPT the temperature! DSS picks up exposure and ISO etc. but not the temperature. I didn't note down temperatures as I was capturing because I assumed I'd be able to get at this info from the EXIF data later.

Please help - anyone

[Anweniel]

Great stuff Gina, I think its worth perhaps thinking of starting afresh rather than worrying about issues of what ifo is stored by which file format. Maybe its just me but I would personally prefer to capture all the necessary data in one night (maybe with the exception of flats).

As noted before the initial image has massive trailing and the following images are a vast improvement on this. If it were me i think I would wait for the moon to wane and take some more data, now that you have had experience of finding and framing your target. Try the higher ISO for locating the target and probably focus then drop maybe to 800 for the lights and take the darks at the end of the session.

Look forward to what you get up to next

[Gina]

Thank you Yes, I could do with taking many more subs - shorter ones at lower ISO. Really it's just that I think I could improve what I've got by using darks. I could also improve results later by swapping to modded sensor assembly and re-capturing plenty of subs. I agree that the runs I've done so far have given me a lot of experience and info on best settings. So that in itself is very worthwhile

[RobH]

Looks like you're very close with focus, and the colours are good.

A bright moon like we now have is a perfect time (if the clouds go away!) to get some practice guiding and also to fine tune polar alignment.

If you have PHD, it's very easy to use for drift alignment (I'll do a sticky I think), which is a process, like all things, that gets easier the more you do it.

It really is worth getting a decent alignment, and your initial image showed a lot of drift for 60s, which you can use guiding to deal with, but it is far better to have the guiding very gentle, which is achieved by decent alignment, and as you have a permanent setup, well worth spending some time on. The more the PA is off, the sooner field rotation will become a problem, even if your guiding is running perfectly.

Re. Finders....you absolutely need a finder that is pointing as accurately as you can get it at the same spot as the main scope. It's the first thing I set up and saves hours of faffing about.

There will be many situations where you have to unlock the clutches and move the mount....you will see the value of a well collimated finder then, and also when you bump into the mount (in my case, usually with my head!) you're going to need it

Keep the finder, and get an ST80 as a guide scope...enough folk swear by them

Great to see the results of all your hard work coming in, and the improvement, even just in this thread is excellent.

Cheers

Rob

[Gina]

Looks like you're very close with focus, and the colours are good.

Thank you

A bright moon like we now have is a perfect time (if the clouds go away!) to get some practice guiding and also to fine tune polar alignment.

Yes, I think you're right there

If you have PHD, it's very easy to use for drift alignment (I'll do a sticky I think), which is a process, like all things, that gets easier the more you do it.

That's interesting - I hadn't thought of using PHD. A sticky on the subject would be most welcome

It really is worth getting a decent alignment, and your initial image showed a lot of drift for 60s, which you can use guiding to deal with, but it is far better to have the guiding very gentle, which is achieved by decent alignment, and as you have a permanent setup, well worth spending some time on. The more the PA is off, the sooner field rotation will become a problem, even if your guiding is running perfectly.

Good thinking Yes, usually easier to correct a small error than a large one.

Re. Finders....you absolutely need a finder that is pointing as accurately as you can get it at the same spot as the main scope. It's the first thing I set up and saves hours of faffing about.

There will be many situations where you have to unlock the clutches and move the mount....you will see the value of a well collimated finder then, and also when you bump into the mount (in my case, usually with my head!) you're going to need it

Keep the finder, and get an ST80 as a guide scope...enough folk swear by them

Yes, I've been thinking that.

Great to see the results of all your hard work coming in, and the improvement, even just in this thread is excellent.

Cheers

Rob

Thanks very much

[Chris]

You've made some pretty fast progress their Gina especially with the PA it looked pretty trailed to begin with but looking good for 6m subs on your later post, thats an impressive sub length unguided and your stars arn't trailed as much as your first set of subs, I would go for 2-3 min subs which would give you rounder stars and thus better detail on the DSO, and up the number of subs to compensate which would also increase your signal to noise ratio. I agree that ISO 800 to 1600 is your best bet with the 1100D, I love my 1100D it is so easy to use and great value for money:)

[Gina]

You've made some pretty fast progress their Gina especially with the PA it looked pretty trailed to begin with but looking good for 6m subs on your later post, thats an impressive sub length unguided and your stars arn't trailed as much as your first set of subs, I would go for 2-3 min subs which would give you rounder stars and thus better detail on the DSO, and up the number of subs to compensate which would also increase your signal to noise ratio. I agree that ISO 800 to 1600 is your best bet with the 1100D, I love my 1100D it is so easy to use and great value for money:)

Thank you

I had another go at M51 last night but with a bright moon and thin high level cloud I don't think I gained anything. 30s at ISO 800 with 77 lights and 15 darks. Anything longer and the background almost saturated. DSS took 61 of the 77 subs. After much fiddling in DSS and GIMP to try and separate the galaxy, this is the result.

[Quatermass]

Your picking up the detail in the dust lanes now Gina try stacking it with out the flats and see what you get sometimes the flats just make it worse and add more noise in fact try it with just 15 darks and 10 flats and see if it works

[terrym2002uk]

Have a problem. CR2 (RAW) files have sensor temperature stored in them and APT shows this in its working log display. Now I want to access this info in CR2 files I've saved in the past so that I can match up lights and darks but I can't seem to find how. APT will browse files but JPG rather than CR2/RAW files. Canon's DPP reads the files but gives all sorts of info EXCEPT the temperature! DSS picks up exposure and ISO etc. but not the temperature. I didn't note down temperatures as I was capturing because I assumed I'd be able to get at this info from the EXIF data later.

Please help - anyone

Did you solve this Gina?

In the APT options there is a bit in the generated filename that lets you put the temp in. But you need to make sure you take jpegs as well as raw (R+L) etc , as the cannon only passes this data back with jpegs. Also make sure your on the latest APT as the temp in the filename got broke temporarily.

The new cameras also store it in the EXIF data, but DSS does not display this field, so in the filename is the best place for now so you can select the correct frames.

There is a program called exiftool and exiftoolGUI that can extract that info for you from your old CR2 files.

http://freeweb.siol.net/hrastni3/foto/exif/exiftoolgui.htm

The field is called CameraTemperature.

[Gina]

Did you solve this Gina?

No, I just took some darks after each lights run at the same settings and temperature.

In the APT options there is a bit in the generated filename that lets you put the temp in. But you need to make sure you take jpegs as well as raw (R+L) etc , as the cannon only passes this data back with jpegs. Also make sure your on the latest APT as the temp in the filename got broke temporarily.

Ah - thank you I wasn't aware of that. Yes, I do have the latest APT.

The new cameras also store it in the EXIF data, but DSS does not display this field, so in the filename is the best place for now so you can select the correct frames.

I see - thanks

Think there is a program called exiftool and exiftoolGUI that can extract that info for you.

Thanks - that's an idea

[ncjunk]

Is all of this on the EQ6 ED80 combo? I´ve not got experience with the 1100D but you should be able to improve your results quite easily (I find M51 an easy and bright target once you sort your alignment/guiding out)

Do the drift alignment method here:-

CCD Drift Method | AstroPhoto Insight

In half an hour you´ll have alignment good enough for a couple of minutes and this will improve your results.

Can´t wait to see some more of your images!

I would possibly suggest looking into an OAG rather than an ST80. I know everyone harps on about the ST80 but I have found the OAG more usefull and easily inter changable on the scopes. The dificult bit is getting the spacing right. I have just bought some 15mm and 5mm spacers so that I can change main cameras without changing the OAG/Guide camera focus.

But your looking at 150 for the OAG and 80 for a meade DSI (although that comes out at a similar price)

You won´t know which option is best for you until you have tried both though...up until then it´s just a mountain of confilicting advice. (although less flexure problems with the OAG.)

[terrym2002uk]

Is all of this on the EQ6 ED80 combo? I´ve not got experience with the 1100D but you should be able to improve your results quite easily (I find M51 an easy and bright target once you sort your alignment/guiding out)

Do the drift alignment method here:-

CCD Drift Method | AstroPhoto Insight

In half an hour you´ll have alignment good enough for a couple of minutes and this will improve your results.

Gina, Give DARV ago in APT. Its make drift alignment a 5 minute job and besides your using it already so no extra cost.

[Gina]

Is all of this on the EQ6 ED80 combo?

Yes, it is.

I´ve not got experience with the 1100D but you should be able to improve your results quite easily (I find M51 an easy and bright target once you sort your alignment/guiding out)

Do the drift alignment method here:-

CCD Drift Method | AstroPhoto Insight

In half an hour you´ll have alignment good enough for a couple of minutes and this will improve your results.

Thank you - that's just what I want. I think I remember reading about this method some time back but not seen it since. I've looked at all sorts of methods but this seems the simplest.

Can´t wait to see some more of your images!

Thank you - that's encouraging

I would possibly suggest looking into an OAG rather than an ST80. I know everyone harps on about the ST80 but I have found the OAG more usefull and easily inter changable on the scopes. The dificult bit is getting the spacing right. I have just bought some 15mm and 5mm spacers so that I can change main cameras without changing the OAG/Guide camera focus.

But your looking at 150 for the OAG and 80 for a meade DSI (although that comes out at a similar price)

Yes, I've looked into this quite carefully - the pros and cons and the prices. I may try an OAG later but for now I'm expecting an ST80 to arrive tomorrow from FLO. Then I'll be looking into making up a bracket for mounting it.

You won´t know which option is best for you until you have tried both though...up until then it´s just a mountain of confilicting advice. (although less flexure problems with the OAG.)

Quite true. For some time I was thinking in terms of OAG with it's much better coupling between main and guiding images but the price put me off. The ST80 is so cheap for what it is

[ncjunk]

You can easily sell the ST80 later only losing 40 pounds or so. So its a good great option for starting guiding (its what I did before the OAG!)

[Davey-T]

Better than my first one Gina

Just don't look at OllyPenrices' picture or youll be as depressed as me

Davey T

[Quatermass]

Coming along nicely Gina with the data you have collected processing will really bring out more details for you. If you have dark skies try iso 1600 60x1min subs or 2 mins then 20 darks and flats, I have done some tests with darks and flat to see what kind of difference it makes stacking 90 darks made no more difference to stacking 20 of them which surprised me but why stack more if there not going to do anything.

[ncjunk]

Better than my first one Gina

Just don't look at OllyPenrices' picture or youll be as depressed as me

Davey T

No need to get depressed the improvement is part of the fun. Getting each image that little bit better than the last.

And Ginas observatory is fan-blumming-tastic! Way better than mine

Enviado desde mi GT-I9003 usando Tapatalk

[terrym2002uk]

No need to get depressed the improvement is part of the fun. Getting each image that little bit better than the last.

I second that. The universe isn't going anywhere soon so keep at it. Remember its meant to be fun! Although some times those gremlins in the works do tend to try our nerves.

[Gina]

I'm not depressed by seeing other people's wonderful images, quite the opposite really - an inspiration to do better. Particularly those using similar equipment Those using very much better stuff give the reaction " WOW!! Just shows what can be done with pots of money... if only..."

But yes, improving one's results is very rewarding and makes it feel worthwhile. It's when things go wrong or you suffer from weeks of cloudy or foggy nights that you think "what the hell am I doing, spending all this time and money and getting nowhere".

It is also very nice to be part of a community all striving to do much the same thing. Probe the distant universe for interesting objects, some of which are really colourful and pretty - a feast for the eyes. Getting nice comments on your hard work and great effort, gives a nice glowing feeling of having achieved something. I think it is this being a part of something great that is the most rewarding thing for me

[Chris]

Very nicely put Gina:)

[Gina]

Very nicely put Gina:)

Thank you

[ArmyAirForce]

I've been imaging for a little over a month, and have improved rapidly. Much of this improvement has been down to learning the processing software rather than operating the shutter on the camera! Doing the exposures seems to be the easy bit.

[Gina]

I think you're right there!

[Quatermass]

Well said that sums it up very nicely

Sent from my GT-S5670 using Tapatalk