200P & EQ5 for AP - Will I get away with it?

[Catweazel]

Yeah I think you have the right idea CW to replace the focusser it would cost 100 pounds new, and for 100 pounds you could get an f/4.9 ST80 and a fringe killer/semi apo filter to practice AP as this would be better tracking wise with your eq5, and tracking is key. Then if you find that you get the imaging bug sell some kit and get the ED glass or HEQ5 (or both), if you get really into imaging you might want to keep the ST80 as its an excellant guide scope by all accounts, well this is one scenario? I would keep your 200p for your visual use as I know your into visual.

yeah, that's a possibility, although from my researches the ST 80 is about £90, and the semi apo about £60 - 70, so a bit more pricey than you suggest. I think that the whole thing will have to be shelved for now. The only other possibility is to try and find somewhere that sells Synta parts and try to find the 200P focuser part that unscrews (from the newer version 200P); if possible, it will certainly be the cheapest option.

[Chris]

Sorry CW yes second hand an ST80 plus semi-Apo filter would be about 100 pounds, new the cheapest option would be 90 quid for the ST80 and 39 quid for the fringe killer, total 129 quid, but I've read the Semi-Apo filter gives a more natural colour to images and gets rid of a fair amount of CA, but like you say your then looking at around 150 quid.

Here is an image taken with an ST80 on an eq5 mount (and there was no mention of filters, so if not fussy about CA easy learning curve imaging for 90 quid:) ).

As for the cheapest option, I think getting 3 longer ajustment screws and longer stronger springs for the 200p would be pretty cheap, but I'm not sure the 200p is the most user friendly way to get into imaging, I really do take my hat off to QM for whats he's achieved so far with his 200p on an eq5, it must have taken a lot of time, problem solving, and patience:)

HTH

Chris

[Catweazel]

Having looked at that picture and some others, when you trace them back to source, most say that they are taken using other scopes with ST80 as a guide scope. Having looked at the cost of getting a proper imaging setup (because whatever I buy, it will always need extra this, and extra that) I can't afford to do it, so had probably best leave it at that for now. I have emailed around to see if anyone can get me the low-profile focuser part for the 200P, if so I will have a go, but otherwise

CW

[Quatermass]

I think you should have a try with the 200p if you can get the focuser sorted it would give you a lot of enjoyment. All of the pictures in my forum album were taken with just a single ra axis motor on the eq5 apart from a few recent ones that were guided. You will be amazed at what you can get with short 1min shots. For instance if you take 60 1min shots at an Iso of 800 then add to that 30 darks lights and bias offset shots which is not hard to do trust me you will have enough data to put through deepsky stacker to get a very nice image. Dont be put off by what at first my seem a strange and new way of doing things it need not be overly complicated. In fact keeping it simple is allways best in my books.

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[Chris]

Thats fair enough CW, I hope you enjoy the views through the 200p and one day I'm sure you'll give DSO imaging a go matey:). I agree about there being a lot of images on the net that use the ST80 as a guide scope, I picked the above picture because it shows what can be achieved with the ST80 as the imaging scope, the above pic used a Pentax K100D DSLR attached to an ST80 on an EQ5 (see link below), you can tell also by the purple halo on the bright stars that its a short tube achro, but I still think its a good pic considering the scope costs less than a focusser. With your 200p how it stands you can still image if it takes you fancy by using your barlow lense, you can do close ups of the Moon, or I recken the core of M42 would be Ok, I'm sure there are others you can try with no outlay and if you want a change from visual,

http://www.telescopesandbinoculars.co.uk/acatalog/Chris_Hill_s_Astrophotography.html

anyway have fun:)

Chris

[Catweazel]

As an addendum to this thread, I have just been rummaging around upstairs (like you do), and found another 2" to 1.25" EP adapter. This one fits into the SW200P, and has a profile of 8mm above the focuser tube, which is an improvement on the other one. It doesn't have a screw thread in the 1.25" end, but I wondered if it would be useable with a t-adapter held in via the EP holding screw?? Here is a pic:

Any thoughts either way would be appreciated. Thanks. CW

[Chris]

ah that might be good, yes this is how my last scope attached to my camera i.e. camera to t-ring into t-adaptor into 1.25"-2" adaptor into 2" focusser. games on:) I think it might be clear tonight give it all a go and let us know how you get on:)

[MBJ]

i have a sw 200p and a dslr for astrophotography and when correctly polar aligned i can manage 120 secs + on my subs and they are fine,not amazing and as good as a guided setup but how far do you want to go and how much do you want to spend as a guided setup can be very expensive.

[Catweazel]

i have a sw 200p and a dslr for astrophotography and when correctly polar aligned i can manage 120 secs + on my subs and they are fine,not amazing and as good as a guided setup but how far do you want to go and how much do you want to spend as a guided setup can be very expensive.

Hi, I only want to have a go at somthing fairly basic, just to see if I can get any decent results. Are you just using a motor driven mount? and have you got a setup like QM, using a PC & software etc? As you can see, I still need to get to grips with the very basics

[MBJ]

Hi, I only want to have a go at somthing fairly basic, just to see if I can get any decent results. Are you just using a motor driven mount? and have you got a setup like QM, using a PC & software etc? As you can see, I still need to get to grips with the very basics

im using a goto upgrade on the eq5,i have an spc900 and a canon dslr,i also use backyardEOS and sharpcap for the imaging,ive had some pretty good images with 120 secs + unguided.as i said they arent perfect but im quite pleased with them.

[Catweazel]

im using a goto upgrade on the eq5,i have an spc900 and a canon dslr,i also use backyardEOS and sharpcap for the imaging,ive had some pretty good images with 120 secs + unguided.as i said they arent perfect but im quite pleased with them.

Ok, thanks, I am also looking at unguided with Canon 1000D DSLR (no webcam at the moment). I know that I can use an external timer to take the pics, but what do you use the backyard EOS for? Thanks CW

[g0ibi]

Might be worth checking out the Starwave 80mm ED from Altair Astro? Only £295 leaving a bit more for the mount?

[MBJ]

Ok, thanks, I am also looking at unguided with Canon 1000D DSLR (no webcam at the moment). I know that I can use an external timer to take the pics, but what do you use the backyard EOS for? Thanks CW

backyardEOS is made purely for dslr astrophotography for canon cameras,there is another similar program called APT which might work with the 1000D

You basically attach your dslr to your scope,a usb lead from camera to computer and you can fully operate your camera remotely from your pc,it even has a liveview feature if your camera has the function so you get live images on your pc.

excellent pieces of software.it is in my opinion essential for astrophotography if you use a dslr.

http://www.backyardeos.com/

http://www.ideiki.com/astro/Default.aspx get it here.

[Quatermass]

Yes a great bit of software download the free trail and get eos red to turn your screen into night mode cool

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[Catweazel]

Hi again everyone

Another update: I have managed to get another focuser for the 200P. Sadly, the footplates are different sizes, so the best thing I could do was cannibalise the new one to get the 1.25" adapter (the one that splits) onto the old focuser. I also cleaned and regreased it at the same time. So...I now just have to see if I can get focus with the 1000D?

Assuming that I can, I need to know where to go from here? I see that BackyardEOS and APT have been mentioned; which of these would be better with the Canon 1000D? Do I connect them to the PC with the cable that I use to connect & transfer pictures to PC? Does this then let me focus camera using one of the above programs with my PC? Will I then need to set up camera settings via program, or still via camera?

Blimey...that's a lot of questions; sorry about that. I am beginning to get the idea, honest

[RikM]

Either of the packages will do a good job. Personally I use APT and love it but haven't yet tried the latest version 1.9, I'm still on 1.71.

You will still have to focus the camera using the telescope focuser just as you would for an eyepiece. A Bahtinov mask will help with that. APT has a feature called FWHM, which gives you a little pop-up box to position over a star in your preview screen and it will measure the star (Full width at half maximum) and give you a number. The smaller the number, the sharper the focus.

Point your scope at the right place. Set your camera to M on the dial and connect to the laptop using your normal download cable (or a longer one), then you can program an 'exposure plan', say 60 sec at ISO800, 10 frames with a pause of 20 seconds between each one to allow the sensor to cool down. Hit start and away you go. Eventually you will want lot more 'subs' and callibration frames etc. but this will give you a taste.

Download the APT demo version and have a play with it. No time limit on the demo (unlike BackyardEOS) and all of the essential features are the same as the full verison. Practise just using your camera + lens in the day time to get a feel for how the software works at first.

[Catweazel]

Thanks for the info Rik, really helpful

I do have one of these: Timer Remote Control RS-60E3 For Canon 1000D 450D 500D: Amazon.co.uk: Electronics

I don't know if this replaces the function of the computer applications? I'm happy to go with whichever method really.

Would it be a good idea to start with some moon shots? Just to see how well aligned the mount is, before I go for anything too complcated? Do I need to follow the same sort of procedure as you already mentioned for this? CW

[RikM]

The timer remote will be fine to start off, but focusing is easier on a laptop screen rather than the preview screen on the camera I find.

For moon shots with the remote, make all the settings on your camera and then justuse the remote to fire the shutter button.

I am a great believer in just having a play with stuff yourself and work out what works for you and what doesn't. That way you can do things you are not supposed to be able to do, because nobody has told you that you can't!

[Catweazel]

Hi again Rik,

I had a play with APT, but found it quite complicated to understand. I got as far as connecting the camera and getting the view on the screen. There was a box in the bottom right that had exp, ISO, Qty etc, then a plan section top right, which was the difficult bit to undertand? I pressed the shoot button a few time but only got 1 image on the camera. I can see that I need to set up a plan and press start, but do I want a light, dark, flat or bias plan? Sorry, but the instructions are not easy to understand or just not there, any help much appreciated CW

[Black Knight]

To create your images need to create a Lights plan.

1. Select a light plan and click Edit. The Plan Editor will load.

2. Near the top of the screen is a drop-down that says "Plan:xxxx", where "xxxx" is the name of the pre-existing light plan that you chose to edit. From this drop-down, select "Add New Light Frames Plan".

3. Now, in the Plan Name box, give the plan a name e.g. "Test 12 x 300s 800 ISO"

4. In the Add/Edit Exposure box, set the following values:

- Exposure: 300

- ISO: 800

- Pause: 5

- Count: 12

5. For Quality, choose R+L

6. Click Update Current

7. Click OK to save the plan.

Job done. You have now created a plan for 12, 5 minute exposures at 800 ISO with a 5 second pause between each exposure. . Hope this helps . Obviously these are test values so choose whatever values suits your needs

[Catweazel]

Ok, thanks very much for that Andy, will have a bash at it

[MBJ]

There have been some changes to the focuser of the 200P over the years. Earlier ones don't reach focus with a DSLR unless you change the focuser or use a barlow (not good for deep sky). They changed the focuser design in the last couple of years.

Do you know how old the scope you have is?

i had a problem getting my 450d to focus on a 200p with standard focuser,the solution was to push the primary up the tube as far as the collimating screws would allow which was about 5 or 6mm and that gave me enough to achieve focus.

[Chris]

Hi MBJ, I told CW the cheapest option ward be to just get 3 longer screws to move the primary up the tube but he wasn't keen on that idea:( and from what your saying you don't even need longer screws, bargain:)

Another, idea that I think would be just as good is to slacken the primary mirror C-clamps and place a flat circle of board behind the primary the same diameter as the primary, then re-tighten the mirror C-clamps. This would boost the primary say about 10mm up the tube and cost peunuts. Simples!!

[Catweazel]

Hi MBJ, I told CW the cheapest option ward be to just get 3 longer screws to move the primary up the tube but he wasn't keen on that idea:(

That's because I have a phobia about taking anything apart or fiddling with anything, as I usually end up making things worse

Another, idea that I think would be just as good is to slacken the primary mirror C-clamps and place a flat circle of board behind the primary the same diameter as the primary, then re-tighten the mirror C-clamps. This would boost the primary say about 10mm up the tube and cost peunuts. Simples!!

What are the primary mirror C clamps? Once I work that out, do you mean put a piece of board 10mm thick behind the primary

[Chris]

Absolutely CW:) when I cleaned the Primary on your scope I had the mirror out of the cell, so I got a good look at things. The Primary mirror is held on the cell by 3 C-shaped rubbery clamps which adjust, if you adjust these to there maximum then measure how much slack there is, you could get a peice of flat circular board the same width as the slack and simply place it behind the primary mirror which would just effectively increase the thickness of the mirror, with the side effect of moving the primary mirror up the tube by a distance equal to that thickness. I obviously havent done this mod myself, but I've seen the components your using in the flesh and cannot think of a reason why this wouldn't work? Can anyone out their think of a reason why this wouldn't work?? I did initially think you might need longer C-clamps but I'm sure their was plenty of slack in the existing ones when I remeoved the mirror.

However, I recken this would be slightly more involved than swapping the primary mirror adjustment screws for longer ones. From what MBJ is saying you might get away with just adjusting the existing screws to their maximum to achieve focus with you DSLR.

taking into consideration you fear of tinkering with things, If I was you I would do the following: Try adjusting the existing primary mirror screws to their maximum and see if you can get focus. If this isn't enough look at getting either longer adjustment screws, or like I say slacken the primary mirror C-clamps and add thickness to the back of the mirror and retighten. If these very cheap options do not work then play with the focusser components.

Newts do need a fair bit of tinkering with, so if you are worried about tinkering with mechanical things it just convinces me further that you might be happier with a short tube frac which requires zero maintenance, but I think I'm starting to sound like a broken record so I promise I will stop pestering you with that

Kind regards,

Chris