Im finally spitting out my dummy!!!

[Daedalus]

I have resisted so far but now ive finally spat out my dummy. You see, ive always had a fascination of the stars and solar system, and i finally bought a scope a couple of months ago. Many mags, websites and people recommended the Skywatcher Explorer 200p, so I bought one. But after several months of really trying to be patient and learn everything there is to know, I finally feel like giving up. I don't know if its me, but all i have seen so far is the Plaieds (easily enough), Jupiter (although you have to have excellent eye sigt cause its the size of a pea), Venus (which was a little blurred dot until i changed eye pieces and it became a bigger blurred dot) and tonight i looked at Mars (once again, a blurred dot). Must admit, the moon looked good but was so bright i couldnt really keep looking at it!

I tried to be adventuress and look for the Andeomeda galaxy after finding it on my star map, but could not locate a thing! Just dots.

I dont want to give up, but I dont want to think that ive just spent £400 to look at dots!

Am i doing something wrong? Should I be able to see things better than described? Or Is a SW200p good because it can see dots that other smaller scopes cant see.

Please help! :-)

[cthorpey]

After a few frustrating weeks with our 130p we finally got to see the Orion nebula properly tonight, I was feeling pretty much the same as you but tonight has turned it all around for both Marie and myself. Dont give up!!!

Do you have a moon filter? For us they make so much difference.

C.

[Daedalus]

Had ordered a moon filter from FLO but it never arrived but I dont think FLO were at fault...think it was their suppliers. So, not got one...see why one is required now! :-) I love looking at the moon and have taken some good shots, but its really the planets I want to view. And friends were really excited about looking at them too but now they arent impressed that I can only show them blurred dots. :-(

[Daedalus]

In addition, if somebody has images of planets taken with their 200p that would be helpful. Thanks

[LukeSkywatcher]

I cant understand why planets (except Mars) appear as nothing but blurred dots in a 200mm scope. Maybe the scope is out of whack (not collimated)?

[cthorpey]

Have a look at this....

hope i am ok posting links that way, if not I apologise.

[Ibbo!]

A visit to the local Astro society might be a big help as the more experienced folks can and will help you

comparing images taken with a ccd camera or webcam with what you see visually is not a good idea as the images tend to give a false impression of what you can see through the scope

[Double Kick Drum]

You should be able to see the bands of Jupiter very easily in an 8", together with four moons, some polar detail and the great red spot.

Saturn should also be good to view in a couple of months.

There will be lots of DSOs your scope is capable of although the fainter ones will be no more than a faint smudge. Unfortunately these do take a little practice and persistence.

It might be worth getting a pocket sky atlas that you can refer back to quickly when trying to find objects.

I would recommend starting with M42 the Orion nebula which should look impressive, followed by the open clusters M35 in Gemini, M36 M37 and M38 in Auriga.

Try spotting M31 Andromeda's companion galaxies. M32 is quite bright all be it smaller. M110 is a bit more tricky but well within your scope's capability.

Another good pair of galaxies is M81 and M82 in Ursa major. The first is almost face on, the second is side on. They are also in the same field of view.

Unfortunately, these objects will never look like the photos. Galaxies appear grey, as do nearly all nebulae. The ones that don't have subtle shades of either green or blue but nothing more.

[Daedalus]

Think I'll start back at the beggining and treat it as if i have just bought my scope and got it out of the box and go through the setup again. Thing is, until you buy a scope, you have no idea what to expect.

[Daedalus]

DKD, I have noted all your recommendations and will try and find them, hopefully a clear night we shall have tomorrow. Would a 25mm eyepiece be suitable eg the one that came with the scope?

[LukeSkywatcher]

Have a look at this....

hope i am ok posting links that way, if not I apologise.

Jupiter is not that size in my 200mm scope. I think that was taken with a 5x Barlow.

[brantuk]

A 200P dob has a focal length of 1200mm at f-6 focal ratio. to get a good view of Jupiter you'd choose an eyepiece that give you 150x to 200x magnification. So 8mm would give you 150x and 6mm 200x. It will still be small but you'll see the banding distinctly and maybe even the GRS. The eyepiece will need to be fairly good quality at f-6, supplied eye pieces won't be as good.

Bear in mind that the view will be affected by light pollution, dark adaption, seeing conditions, high level cloud and transparency, and collimation of the scope.

Bright dots can be very attractive when grouped together in tight globular clusters thousands at a time, they can look beautiful as diamonds in the sky in open clusters and double clusters, binary star systems can show highly contrasting and striking colours, whispy nebulea can reveal fascinating star forming regions of the universe, and galaxies just look amazing, especially with more than one in the field of view.

You just need to know what size and quality of eyepiece to choose, and have a little bit of background knowledge of the object you want to see

[Steve777]

Had the same shock myself at first: it is difficult when you find things advertised as blah, blah, blah only to find everything quite small and faint. My approach has been to find another object each time, if possible. So the Auriga clusters ought to be easy, plus a few double stars etc. I do, sometimes, though, have sessions where I think so what & others where I think great. Seems to need patience.

Steve

[RobH]

Don't expect to see things looking like the images you see. These are the result of hours of exposure with highly sensitive cameras.

You can expect to see a bit of colour on planets and some stars, but nebulae will look for the most part like faint grey fuzzy patches, especially if you have any light pollution.

Rob.

[Daedalus]

Cheers guys, learning curve springs to mind. Hoping for clear skies and more practice i think. This site is a great place to post and ask questions by the way.

[cantab]

Naturally check the collimation.

Besides that, if you're having trouble finding stuff, the obvious thing to look at is the finder. Is it aligned with the main scope? That alignment, just like the collimation of the mirrors, will need periodic checking. If it's aligned and still not helpful, maybe a unit power finder would be good.

You also might benefit from a low power eyepiece with a larger true field of view, something like a decent 32mm Plossl maybe.

[pete_l]

... people recommended the Skywatcher Explorer 200p, so I bought one.... but all i have seen so far is the Plaieds (easily enough), Jupiter (although you have to have excellent eye sigt cause its the size of a pea), Venus (which was a little blurred dot until i changed eye pieces and it became a bigger blurred dot) and tonight i looked at Mars (once again, a blurred dot). Must admit, the moon looked good but was so bright i couldnt really keep looking at it!

I've just checked out the spec. for the Explorer 200p. it's an F/5 Newt. that comes with a 25mm and 10mm eyepieces and a x2 Barlow.

With that collection, I'd expect to see Jupiter as more than a "pea". But I's probably use the 10mm EP and then stick the Barlow in to double the object's size. However, for Andromeda, you'd need to go to the other extreme and stick with the 25mm EP on its own which should fill the FoV with the fuzzy core of the galaxy.

If yo want to see what things should look like, try this link and select "Switch to visual view" to choose from the eyepiece selection.

Some other targets you could try would be M13 early inthe evening, before it gets too low, and M44 below Sirius, if that's high enough in the sky at your location.

[Rapallokid]

Hi, You could also try downloading Stellarium, it is excellent free software and it might help you to locate your target objects. It will give you a clear idea of what is visible in the part of the sky you can see. For me andromedas was a nighhtmare to find for the first time. but once you find it you wont lose it again..... Just now it is almost overhead to the west. I always use the pointing stars in cassiopeia. If you can try this link it might help. Ottawa Centre - R.A.S.C. - Kid Space - October Galaxy

Good luck and dont give up.

RK

[Zul]

I think you didn't find the Andromeda galaxy because you can see gray smog around the star with binoculars.

[sabana]

The bluriness will improve with better eyepieces and seeing conditions guaranteed. What won't improve is the magnitude. They will always be dots. However I hear 2 things calling out.

Astrophotography where long exposures will compensate and give you what you want. That is the pictures you see in magazines.

Refractor telescopes where the nice dots become incredible pointed pin pricks of amazement and awe. With much higher contrast and sharpness against a blacker background.

[Double Kick Drum]

DKD, I have noted all your recommendations and will try and find them, hopefully a clear night we shall have tomorrow. Would a 25mm eyepiece be suitable eg the one that came with the scope?

Yes, a 25mm eyepiece should be fine. The size of these objects means that you do not need much magnification.

Regards

[bullettooth]

another great thing to look at is the doubles between perseus and cassiopeia. i get a great view of them with my 114 newt and the 25mm supplied EP so you should be well impressed with your 200p. pretty easy to find aswell.

also m44 in cancer is a nice looking cluster of stars.

good luck and stick at it. its well worth it in the end

p.s i can see the bands of jupiter with the stock 10mm EP so i would be checking the collimation if i were you, seems hard at 1st but after a bit of messing about its pretty simple.

[scogyrd]

Join an astro club or try and meet people of here that can show you what you should be looking it.

I struggled to begin with because I didn't know what I was meant to be looking at so I was never sure if I'd found anything or not.

Once I'd looked through a few scopes and realized what galaxies and clusters actually looked like (through an eyepiece) I found it a lot easier to find things on my own.

Although I'm no expert and I still struggle to find things, which I think has more to do with my seeing conditions than anything else, but it cant hurt looking through other people's scopes. It certainly helped me out.

edit: I didn't read your second post where you said its really the planets I want to view and all you can see is blurred dots. There's something not right here, when I first looked at Jupiter with my 200p I was blown away by the amount of detail I could see with it (compared to my 130eq), so I think you may have something wrong with your scope. It's probably collimation but I wouldn't like to say without looking at it, so try and check the collimation or, failing that, take it to an astro club and let them have a look through it.

[ronin]

First thing is to determine what you want to look at.

The 200P is a good start point but it may not be what suits you.

I am guessing that the scope is on an EQ mount, you don't state the mount type.

If the EQ is the problem setting up the mount?

If the Dobsonian mount is the problem locating anything?

To the first point.

If you are wanting to look at small objects then the finder scope has to be accurately aligned with the newtonian?

Visit the Wikiedia site and get the list of Messier objects.

Locate the various globular and open clusters, the find out which constellation they are in and locate them with a set of binoculars.

Get something like The Monthly Sky Guide, look at each of the hightlighted constellations and check what is in them.

Then aim the scope at the same spot. Fit the scope with the longest eyepiece first.

If you are/were expecting views as the images you see then you will be disappointed. What the books and sites present are much processed images.

With this hobby there comes the need for a large amount of realsm.

Is there a club near to you that you could get to and if suitable join.

[spaceboy]

If planets resemble blurry dots there are several possible reasons for this. 1) the seeing is so bad all you are magnifying with the scope is atmospheric turbulence 2) your scope is not cooled to ambient temperature 3) the collimation of the scope is out 4) you have some really bad eyepieces. Either way the image of most planets will be no bigger than the size of a pea in most scopes and you will have to work at picking out the finer details.

As for what you actualy see through the scope. This is very dependant on where you live. Light pollution and heat rising of suberbia often means people living in built up areas are very restricted to what night sky objects they are able to view. Brighter DSO's like open clusters can be viewed with some success and nebulas like M42 will show some contrast giving detail of structure. While you can see some galaxies under LP skies they will be no more that light smudge on an otherwise darker background that you will have to strain to see anyway. Stars will only ever appear as dots in the sky. Even if there was a telescope large enough to pick out detail on a distant star the turbulance in the atmosphere would make it impossible to pick out detail anyway. If you live under dark skies the views will be greatly improved but you can only really make out faint details and require much larger scopes to see any defined structure in galaxies. Nebulas respond much better under dark skies and filters can be used to increase contrast and so detail. In some cases a filter has to be used even under dark skies to see nebulas. What you must remember is you are never going to see the images you see in magazines. The restrictions are not so much with the scopes but our own eye balls. There is simply only so much light our eyes / brains can process and this is why a lot of astronomers take up imaging.

HTH