SuburbanMak

Thank you - aside from the Orion Nebula where you can get mesmerised for hours I’d really recommend checking out Sigma Orionis - easy to find just below the Eastern end of the “belt” and a super triple, easy to imagine it as an orbital system.

It was gone eleven o'clock by the time I got out last night so my plan to look at @ScouseSpaceCadet suggested "Urban Delights" was scuppered by most of them being uncomfortably overhead. Winter favourites Auriga, Orion and Taurus were blazing away and well risen from East round to South however so I took an unplanned tour of some of their highlights instead. I was using an old Prinz 330 60mm f11.8 on an AZ GTi and Berlebach 312 Report and the 18mm, 10mm & 6mm Baader Classic Orthos (BCO) and a TS Optics 32mm Plossl. Generally seeing was 4/5 above about 30 degrees and transparency 3 or 4/5 (the occasional waft of mist from the river). Rigel - Still quite low and pulsating slightly, was seeing a hint of the secondary at "7 o'clock" in the 18mm BCO but it was fleeting in the low down seeing & more magnification really didn't help. Pleiades - higher up the view was stunning, what looked like hundreds of tiny perfect ball stars on an inky background with the main 7 stars really bright and great colour contrasts. the 32mm showed the whole asterism best. Hyades central region - beautiful, lots of colour contrast with Theta and Delta doubles in the same field. (I am losing some potential FoV as this little scope can't accept a full width 1.25 adapter so am stuck with the .965 field stop, but comparing with Astronomy tools I estimate the 60mm f11.8 is showing just over 2 degrees making it lovely on these big open clusters). M42/3 - Spent some quality time here. Surprisingly dramatic view for a 60mm scope in the 32mm & 18mm (22x & 39x) EPs. The dark clouds of the Fish's Mouth and Wings almost appearing to swirl in averted vision the longer I looked. Could see 3/4 in the Trapezium all the time with direct vision and the "B" star visible intermittently and present with AV - also seeing elongation in the C star, this didn't change much at 71x (super view) & 118x (dim). Panned around the de Marian area and up to the clusters NGC1977 & NGC 1981 just above - could fit this whole region in the 32mm M1 - had a good old hunt for the Crab nebula, confirmed Zeta Tauri from the star field but couldn't find anything beyond "averted imagination" Sigma Orionis - showed beautifully as a triple system in the 18mm at 39x against a rich field. Higher mags were not pulling out the 4th star that should theoretically be visible. Swept up from Sigma to Alnitak and on up the belt and across to the Phi Orionis region, lovely cluster above Betelguese and Belatrix. Finished with a neck-stretching peek at Almach and enjoyed the Orange/Green white contrast in the 18mm & 10mm then back to the Pleiades. Session ended with very cold feet - winter is coming...

Revisiting this after some time with 2 more classic refractors: 3 inch Clarkson f15, (c.1900). Having got this beautiful old brass scope riding securely on an AZ GTi and Berlebach report I was keen to test it on the Double Double. Using an 18mm Classic Ortho I was able to show a notched Southerly pair and some elongation in the more Northerly pair. 10mm BCO (114x) was showing a very clear split in the southerly pair and well notched/intermittent split in the other. 6mm BCO (190x) - remarkably stable view showing a clear split of both pairs, for some reason the view always reminds me of a "cell division" illustration in my old Biology textbook. Really surprised and pleased at how good this view was - definitely dimmer but still stacked up reasonably well against my Mak 127 at similar magnification. Not bad for a 120 year old instrument, 60mm Prinz Astral 330 710mm fl (f11.8) This was my first eBay "classic" refractor acquired back in May and after a few quick sessions on its original wobbly tripod it got deployed on permanent solar duty all summer. I realised that I'd not really run it on a decent mount against a wide range of targets. I now have this riding in some guidescope rings on a proper vixen dovetail and it's a super lightweight "pop out for a quick peek" rig on a Manfrotto 55. It has Japanese "Circle-K" optics, specs identical to the Tasco 9TE-0 & this little scope star-tests perfectly, tiny airy disc and beautiful, even concentric rings either side of focus. I've run it with ridiculous maginfication on the moon and just kept teasing out more detail, also is a very nostalgic experience the Tasco-esque black and white taking me back to the early eighties! On wider doubles Almach, Albireo etc its stunning & am keen to push its limits! I've had two goes at splitting Epsilon Lyra with it and am not quite getting the second pair - yet... 10mm BCO (71x) shows a well notched/intermittently split Southerly pair and oval Northerly pair. 6mm BCO (118x) clean split of the Southerly pair, elongation in the more Northern. I'm going to wait for a night of good seeing and run this on the more stable Berlebach/AZGTi combo so i can push magnification further - I am convinced this lens should perform to its diffraction limits given the right conditions.

Great report- really enjoyed reading this, lovely descriptions of some urban favourites and definitely for me some new doubles to try. Observing in the back garden within easy reach of the drinks cabinet always gives that “gentlemanly pursuit” air for me too!

Managed to get out for some testing late last night. Despite a lot of high cloud there were a few holes and the moon was bright enough to penetrate the cloud most of the time. Seeing however was quite steady. Jupiter was setting to SSW by the time I got out but was able to catch a nice view of the 2 main equatorial bands and the string of moons, enjoyed the different alignment from when I’ve been viewing earlier in the evenings. Did a star test on Capella and was able to see concentric rings - not quite perfect, a slight bulge to the upper right, but the lens cell isn’t collimatable so I think I’ll leave well alone. All but the brightest stars show as nice tight balls & only a very slight offset “tail” on the higher magnitudes, certainly not the “seagulls” I’ve had with pinched optics in other scopes. The moon looked great and could pick out real detail along the terminator with (I think) Gassendi showing particularly well and the area to the N.E of sinus Iridium (J. Herschel , Babbage region) looking fabulously 3D. Also noted the “double” nature of one of Tycho’s rays. The sweet spot in terms of magnification was 63x with an 18mm BCO. I was able to use the 10mm for 114x power but was losing a bit of contrast, probably due to the veil of high cloud. On a night of clean transparency I am sure I could usefully use up to 190x with the 6mm. Elsewhere I enjoyed a fab view of the Pleiades, framed neatly in the 1.39 degree maximum fov afforded by a 32mm Plossl (c35x). Lovely star field and despite the murk definitely pulling out stars down to around 10th magnitude. Attempted to look at The Orion Nebula as is rose in the East and was granted a tantalising brief view of the familiar dark clouds and a tiny trapezium before the cloud really made things futile. It was also dewy by this time so I packed up. Throughout the finder worked perfectly and best of all the AZGTi in point and track mode meant no need for constant nudging to keep objects in the field - very important as a tube this length takes a couple of seconds to settle after every touch and that gets wearing quite quickly! Can’t wait to get it out again!

Thank you - good suggestions all. I’ll definitely look into the tube ring option for finder mounting. For interest here are the 2 finder candidates I have…

I’ve been bringing the Clarkson 3in to a state of operational readiness today with a more workable mount and a temporary finder. My long term plan is to use this in “period mode” and to that end I’ve amassed a few RAS eyepieces and a couple of possible finderscopes. While I mull over the best way to mount these however (and put off the moment where I have drill the tube to fit something), I want to use it more regularly with modern minimum glass (BCOs & Tak prism) and find out what it can do on a range of objects. I have used the integral threaded 1/4 in bolts of the original mount and drilled out a dovetail bar to fit them. It needed a good deal of filing to expose enough thread to be secure but the result is solid, although I can hear my old metalwork teacher berating the lack of neatness in my notches! It puts the focuser at right angles to where it should be but it’s not too bad to use. I elected to stick an RDF mount on with pads - nothing that a bit of brasso won’t sort out once I want to fit a more in-keeping solution. It’s all aligned on chimney pot testing. The OTA balances well and it’s riding very smoothly on the AZ GTi. All in all I think it has a purposeful blend of antique and modern look about it Looking forward to some lunar, planetary and doubles exploration as soon as skies allow.

Short Tube refractor (maybe a Skywatcher ST 102 like this https://www.firstlightoptics.com/startravel/skywatcher-startravel-102t-ota.html), Alt Az manual mount, red dot finder, heavy tripod - the SW Steel one looks good value. And I would say a cheaper Zoom eyepiece to give a range of magnification without faff changing/dropping eypeieces. Lots of people rave about this one https://www.firstlightoptics.com/ovl-eyepieces/hyperflex-9-27mm-zoom.html but there are cheaper examples from Skywatcher & Celestron too. Everyone intuitively knows how to use a set up like this and there's no issue with collimation etc. I've enjoyed great views through my ST80 of all sorts of objects from a dark location - if you could stretch to the 4 inch however it would be more rewarding on favourite Deep Sky Objects.

Thanks Dave - yes the Berlebach (Report 312) has a made a big difference - hadn't realised how much slop was in the supplied SW aluminium tripod until I upgraded the AZ GTi clamp with one from ADM. That improved things but highlighted that there was quite a bit of flexing going on in the tripod. On the BCO's I have become a huge fan, I bought them as a "minimum glass" solution for classic refractors that I picked up on eBay, but have ended up using them more and more. Good contrast, colour fidelity and sharp across most of the field. FoV is not wide, but not an issue for so many targets.

No worries - its a good piece of kit. Mine is last year's SW model - the black & cream finish. My understanding is that SW, Orion and Celestron 127 Maks are all the same Synta OTA.

Thank you! Short answer is it works for me I don’t have a lot of experience to give a comparative view but have had what for me are some super nights in my first Mak yesr. Optics can be very crisp, the limiting factor more often is seeing. Image is not huge but I’ve been pleased with the level of detail that can be pulled out when conditions allow - 6+ bands on Jupiter, barges, festoons, transits and the GRS with good contrast and what little CA there is seems atmospheric. Saturn I’ve seen A&B rings, Cassini division, some banding, crisp shadows of planet on rings & vice versa + 3 moons. On the best nights have successfully pushed magnification above 250x - more usually 150-180x is the sweet spot. It’s also very sturdy and quite small enough to backpack to the park - run mine on an AZGTi and Berlebach Report and it’s very steady. In the garden I can be up running in minutes - my experience has been cooling time is 20 mins or so, (usually put mine out early).

A neighbourly tree-removal at the weekend meant I was keen to get out and explore my “new sky” last night. On the whole I don’t like seeing trees come down but this huge sycamore was way too close to foundations, extremely dense, the source of a triffid-like bloom of saplings from its helicopters every year as well as obscuring a huge chunk of sky to my S & SSW. With it gone I can watch Jupiter & Saturn pretty much all evening from the back garden . I put the Mak127 out to cool at about six & was out from 8-9:15, all very civilised. Seeing was good & after some quick but detailed planetary views, I went in search of a couple of neighbouring objects. M72, M73 & NGC 7009 The Saturn Nebula. Although seeing was good, transparency was less so, especially low down. I could see slight misty cones around the streetlights which explained why of my faint fuzzies there was absolutely no sign. I took a quick peek at M15, M2 & M13 with at the time M15 showing best, M13 close to rooftops and LP. Thought at this point about packing up but elected to go for a couple of doubles first (stars, not whiskies!). Almach- all of sudden my evening improved. Beautiful golden headlight and a white companion - split with a 32mm Plossl at 47x and enjoyed it for a while through BCOs at 18mm, 10mm & 6mm - all the way up to 250x. The mist was apparent at that level but the image was very steady. I remembered reading about Iota Cass on here & the W was well placed to the NE. I wasn’t sure at first that I was on the right star but at 150x in the 10mm this split to an amazing triple. The primary bright white with diffraction rings and two dimmer, ball-like secondaries at 11 o’clock and “half-past” (RACI). This picture held well at 250x in the 6mm Ortho. Enjoyed for a while. On round to Polaris which split beautifully from 47x on up, with probably the best view I’ve ever had of it at 150x, really noticing a contrast between yellowish primary and white secondary. With a nice steady picture the separation looked huge. Rude not to check out the Double Double -Epsilon Lyrae. The southerly pair splitting from 47x up, the more Northerly taking 150x to split cleanly. Again the best view I’ve ever had of this with the 6mm BCO at 250x. Amazing. I realised that with my spring & summer Messier quest followed by lots of gas giant viewing, this is the first time I’ve gone for any doubles since upgrading to a Berlebach report - the stable platform makes a huge difference especially at higher mags, the BCO 6mm becomes a useful tool where I’d not really had much joy with it before. Was about to pack up as electrical things were starting to look a bit too damp but took one last squizz at Jupiter & there was a shadow transit &, even that low down, good seeing! All in all a really rewarding improvised session - highlights Almach & Iota Cass.

Caught this by chance as I was about to pack up due to encroaching dew. Seeing quite steady in Winchester tonight & watched a clean shadow cross the meridian slightly South of the equator - super way to end a session! Best view was at 150x with a BCO 10mm. Nice banding too with some real detail at times.

Super report - love widefield observing with the ST80.

That's an amazing observation! Seeing, collimation, aperture for sure, I think there's a degree of skill and patience in there too...

Congratulations! Its a breathtaking object & sounds like you have great views and the equipment to enjoy it at its best. Interesting to note in the thread above a couple of folk saying they could see a green colour when younger or that their kids can see the colours. I came back to astronomy after many years and had a distinct memory of the Orion Nebula as glowing green - now at 50, its all just grey mist & shadows... Clear skies!

Within a short-range window I have found the Met Office Cloud Cover forecast to be the most reliable/ least unreliable... https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/public/weather/uk-cloud-cover-forecast/#?tab=map&map=Cloud&zoom=5&lon=-4.00&lat=55.74&fcTime=1633035600 Often take a look at the Jetstream forecast especially if CO/Met Office showing as clear, help me make the all important decision if its worth putting scopes in the car or just doing something from the back garden https://www.netweather.tv/charts-and-data/jetstream

Seeing was coming & going in Winchester, pulsating over a 2-3s cycle. Transparency great at first but gave way to increasingly large banks of high cloud in which the view became poor. I’d put the Mak 127 out early to cool and started with a look at Saturn - Cassini division only visible fleetingly but a nice shadow of the planet on the rings, Titan visible, but even not-the-best views of Saturn I still find thrilling & helped me settle on the BCO 10mm being the best usable view at 150x. Tuning in for the main event it took me until 10 past 8 to pick up Io’s shadow on the Eastern limb & smack on the equator. Watched it fading in and out from dark splodge, easily confused with eye-floaters to sharp full-stop to disappeared-entirely & back again. There was a period of better seeing as it crossed the meridian and I was joined by my middle son who like me took a minute or two to see it but was then suitably impressed. Things were mushy & cloud interrupted for a while but we got a break toward the end and really enjoyed watching Io emerge & a sharp intake of breath when we realised we could see both the moon & its shadow on the disc at the same time! I’d set up the Prinz 60mm f11.8 alongside with a BCO 6mm (118x) to test if this was observable, having been blown away by the clarity of the optics on the moon & gas giants recently. Can’t honestly say that I could pull it out of the popping seeing, may have been a glimpse early on. It gave a great view of Io emerging however. I stayed out for a while and picked up M15 & M2 - both cracking globulars with M15 in particular showing a tight bright core. The BCO 18mm showed them best with a hint of stardust in averted vision. Then nice to back off the magnification (32mm TSO Plossl) and throw them against a backdrop of stars, really gives them the lonely galactic wanderers feel. Throw in a quick hunt for Neptune (result-maybe, revisit) and the fact that Wednesday night is bell ringing practice at the cathedral and it made for an evening really well spent despite the less than perfect sky. Thanks again @Nik271 for the nudge!

Great tool - thank you!

Thanks for the heads up Nik- I will get the Mak cooling...

Hi Matt - I can't comment from experience on your other choices but am getting great views of all kinds of objects with the SW 127 Mak on the AZGTi mount in Alt Az mode. I also frequently swap out the Mak and run other scopes on the mount which is a standard Vixen bar fit so see no reason why this wouldn't work well with your 130. The Maks are known for their planetary and lunar capabilities & the views of Saturn & Jupiter over the last few weeks have been everything I hoped for - on the nights of best seeing able to take magnification well over "twice the aperture in mm" rule. I've had mine since Christmas and have been working my way through the Messier catalogue & assorted other doubles & clusters. On Galaxies I've been able to see form in a few M51, M81/M82 spring to mind as well as identifying some very faint smudges in Markarian's chain. At a good Bortle 4 location I was able to pick up spiral form in some fainter galaxies like M61 & M99 in Virgo. Planetary nebulae like the Ring & Dumbell show really well & I've had great views of the star forming regions M42 & M8. The Mak seems a good tool for double stars showing lovely colour contrast and on one night of great seeing I was able to cleanly split Tegmine, which at 1.1 arc secs of separation is right on the theoretical optical limits of the scope - so quite literally the "sky's the limit", not the optics! The other important point for me with the Mak is it is both robust, collimation-free and portable. Although I started setting up quite gingerly I've become increasingly confident in its ruggedness over the course of the year. This is important for me as I have get out of town to get to darker skies. The fov is quite narrow (just over a degree at max) but once I fixed a Telrad & 9x50 finder side by side I haven't found this to be a problem. The AZ GTi I have used successfully for both GoTo and tracking and its continuing to perform well, with the slight upgrade of a pan-base and uprated clamp its a nice manual Alt Az mount too. I note all the above as there's a tendency to say "Maks are great for planetary", which is true, but my experience has been that with a reasonably dark sky & decent seeing, they're a great value, highly portable, no fuss and optically crisp solution for a wide range of objects. Whichever way you go, have fun & clear skies!

Really interesting report thank you - am inspired to track down the Saturn nebula!

I'm a big fan of the Baader Classic Orthos - especially the 18mm & 10mm. Crystal clear, high contrast old-school Zeiss Abbe design at £49 each

Great report Nik - I popped the Mak 127 out last night having seen it clearing over Winchester early evening. Enjoyed a short session but again lovely views - Cassini division & 3 moons apparent along with 2 cloud bands & prominent shadow of the planet on the rings giving a real 3D effect on Saturn. Jupiter showed detail in the main bands and a contrasting grey darker area at the N polar region that I’d not previously registered. Also sneaked a few looks at the Ring Nebula, Double Cluster and finished up running silly magnification on the moon (drawing more detail out up to 340x). My admiration for the Baader Classic Orthos grows! Have popped an old Hilkin 60mm out tonight & hope to put it through its paces later. Met office cloud cover forecast looks good here for a few hours before midnight.

Since coming back from hols late August I’ve enjoyed a few back garden planetary sessions on Jupiter & Saturn, due to work & weather though I seem to have missed the nights of best seeing, tonight’s views however have been my best yet. Seeing was mostly steady and contrast seemed really good - not sure but think the proximity of the 95% moon may actually have been helping with this. Saturn looked super with the Cassini division easily apparent around the rings and several cloud bands visible. The shadow of the rings on the planet & vice versa were crisp at the best moments of seeing. 3 moons, 1 always & 2 with averted vision. I fetched my 15 year old son out to look who immediately said “Oh wow there’s a stripe around the rings!”. Jupiter showed many bands and more detail than I’ve yet seen. 2 pronounced dark areas on the upper edge of the Northern equatorial band and lots of swirls and texture in the bands visible at times. Using a UHC filter I was able to locate the GRS and thereafter able to discern it with the more natural colours rendered by the Baader Neodymium. Galilean moons clear with diffraction rings. 1 moon to the West and 3 East, 2 of them looking like a fairly close double star. I find the moons the best way to focus as the planet features come and go a bit with the seeing & if I’m not careful I end up twiddling the focuser all the time to no avail. I started the session with a Baader Mk IV zoom but was soon scurrying off inside to fetch the 18mm & 10mm Baader Classic Orthos & 2.25 Barlow which I have found to be a super planetary setup combined with the Neodymium filter which just adds a bit of punch. Best view was with the 18mm Barlowed to 8mm - 167x by a squeak over the 10mm at 150x. The Mak 127 was a great tool for the job tonight. Will get back to those Messiers eventually…