SuburbanMak

I have the Baader Hyperion 24mm fixed, is a lovely EP in the Mak 127 and gives the max available field. It’s my main galaxy hunter. FoV is much wider than the MkIV zoom stopped to 24mm. To my eye contrast & sharpness a bit better too.

There are two focus tubes. The drawtube is a 36.4mm (Vixen threaded) chromed tube on which the focus rack is mounted. Sticking out of the drawtube is a long 1.25 inch chromed tube. Ideally I’d replace the 1.25 in tube with additional length at 36.4mm, I have a Vixen-1.25 converter I can use to hold a 1.25 prism.

Hmm… some thinking and saving to do! That’s a great thread btw thank you.

UPDATE: I couldn’t let it lie, had to clean that muck off the lens. The cell succumbed to a pair of strap-wrenches & the lens cleaned beautifully with an oh-so-gentle wipe with a microfibre cloth and the faintest whiff of Baader Optical Wonder. Before: After:

Wow - that’s some conversion! I’m actually pretty happy with the focuser - stripped and re-greased it’s smooth and nicely damped, no sign of droop despite the massively long pull out draw tube extension. What kind of FoV can you achieve with the 2in conversion?

Thank you. I have the ADM upgrade & a PB70 Az puck to use the mount manually (my one worry with the AZGTi is a flimsy Az clutch, better locked and left that way). Good intel on the tripod & you are right, I’d particularly miss the tracking function which given my growing collection of pea-shooters is a very useful feature indeed! I agree that it’s a bit too long for the mount, magnifies the very slight Alt play in the gearing. Works for now though & may well be better with the AZGTi in powered mode. I’ll post when I’ve tried that.

A few decent breaks in the cloud last evening sent me scurrying into the garden to get first light on my "new" ToPic 80mm f15. There's always a bit of trepidation when trying out an eBay purchase but the first view of the quarter moon with a 32mm Plossl immediately set this to rest - this is one optically sharp 'scope! Seeing was quite mixed low down, steady toward the zenith. Transparency 4/5 in the genuine gaps between clouds but a lot of misty stuff moving through in the meantime! EPs used were 32mm TS Optics Plossl & 18mm, 10mm & 6mm Baader Classic Orthos. I used the moon to align the finders (dreadfully fiddly solution on scopes from this era and this example is no better, although the finder itself is a crisp 4 degree FoV 6x30 that would accept other .965 EPs) and then went back to the main scope to test. First thing to note was that there was to my eye no discernible CA at all up to 120x. With the 6mm BCO at 200x there was the slightest red fringe on the lunar limb (and I mean slight as in a very narrow band), the Moon was quite low so this could be more atmospheric, either way no real problem there. Was able to achieve reasonable focus on the terminator at 200x and could see that with better seeing this will be a usable power. At 120x I was getting drawn into the textured detail of the highlands S of Mare Vaporum and sharply defined Ryma Hygnius. Ptolemaeus & Herschel (I think) looked great on the terminator. Also watched the crater Bessel, a sharp 15km feature in Mare Serenitatis, bobbling in and out of focus with the seeing. Most striking of all was the brown/slate grey colour contrast between Mare Serenitatis and Mare Tranquilitatis - the best I've seen this outside of photos and much more noticeable than in my five inch Mak. Next I trained to Jupiter just a few degrees above the moon last night (the two made for a really atmospheric sight naked eye with an aircraft con-trail snaking between them). Seeing was bit "boily" but I could see immediately a very clean contrasty image with good colour, the 2 equatorial bands always present and others coming & going. Sweet spot was 120x last night & the scope was pairing very well with the 18mm & 10mm BCO. I can see that on the right night this is going to be a superb rig for pulling out planetary detail. It felt like the Galilean moons were tiny discs, need to look up if this even optically possible at this aperture but still, a lovely view. On to Saturn and considering how low its getting this was an amazing view - Cassini division clear in all but the worst seeing bobbles, banding on the disc better than I've seen it in the Mak 127 and I thought some darkening at the pole. Crisp shadows of planet on rings & rings on planet and 3 moons with direct vision and a sense of more in AV. Could have stayed here all evening but wanted to look a few stars and the gaps in the cloud were getting further between... Vega - to do a rough star-test, and very pleased to see nice almost-perfectly-round rings either side of focus. There is the slightest hint of a top to bottom oval - the lens cell does have collimation screws but given how close this is I'll probably leave well alone given my zero experience in this area! (Ditto the light film of dust on the inner face of the objective lens - lens cell thread is currently jammed anyway so was pleased this didn't seem to impede viewing much). Did the same on Capella and Aldebaran too for fun and enjoyed the rich colours. Almach - presented beautiful airy discs and diffraction ring on the primary and a nice green ball secondary in the 18mm BCO 67X. Lovely view. Polaris - the 18mm BCO showed the secondary with AV, not quite the view I might have expected. Epsilon Lyra Double Double- ditto Polaris really, good split of the easier pair at 120x but can't claim to have split both. Look forward to testing properly on doubles on a night of good seeing, Pleiades- beautiful view against an inky background in the 32mm, the main group just fiitting in the FoV, this tallies with astronomy tools confirming the max field as being just over 1.3 degrees. Gathering cloud and heavy dew ended the session. There are some logistical downsides & some work to do - its a very long tube and the rough-focus pull-out draw tube has to be a fair way out to achieve focus. (If anyone knows where I could get a 200mm long 36.4mm tube with a male Vixen thread at one end and a female at the other, or a few shorter extenders threaded togther I would love to hear from you!). My solution for marrying the 1.25 inch diagonal to the drawtube is currently not as secure as I'd like (nosepiece from an SW diagonal screwed into the drawtube clamped to the diagonal using a 2in-1.25 inch EP converter that came with a TS Optics focuser. Currently looking at options including plumbing fittings! Manoeuvring down the garden on the tripod is not something I'll repeat - its a two-trip setup. To reach the Alt clutch on the AZ GTi I need Mr Tickle arms. Also at anything above about 45 degrees even with the Berlebach 312 fully extended I could do with a low seat to view - maybe a fishing stool... I've knocked the baffles out of the focuser tube and painted the inside, I can see that this has delivered the maximum possible FoV but in daylight viewing this had reduced contrast and can still see some light bouncing around - flocking material ordered - the prospect of delivering even more contrast based on this first view is exciting. Riding on my AZ GTi mount there is a second or two of vibration after moving or focussing, long term I can see more expenditure on a heavier mount coming (maybe SW Steel tripod & SkyTee - would welcome opinions on whether this would improve things). All in all a very satisfying first light. By the end of the session the tube was slick with dew, I wonder if people ever fit handles to these things...

Fair enough - my point in fact, probably not terribly well made, is that any of these instruments will deliver wonderous views compared to never having seen….

Yes - the planets are small in the ST80 but Saturn’s rings are clear and the main equatorial bands on Jupiter plus of course the nightly dance of the Galilean moons. It’s not a “planetary scope” as such but definitely capable of showing discs & the very broadest features. Haven’t found the CA too intrusive - bit of a green fringe in the moon but that’s so bright you can stop down using the handy hole in the lens cap. On the right night I find it runs fine at around 100x. (The first view of Saturn that got an “awesome” from the kids and kicked off my renewed interest was in fact with a Nat Geo Bresser 70mm 350mm fl - like a tiny jewel).

Lots of good opinions above. Personally I'd go for an Skywatcher ST80 refractor (like this https://www.firstlightoptics.com/startravel/skywatcher-startravel-80-az3.html) on the most solid manual mount you can afford. Very solid, portable (you mentioned camping), intuitive & no fiddling with mirrors. +1 on a zoom eyepiece which is also a great idea & I'd add a Barlow lens to rack up the power particularly on the Moon. Having said that though any of the 'scopes discussed will give views to stun and inspire someone new to looking at the sky (and all will equally disappoint if wobbling around all over the place). FWIW my kids are a bit older & in their teens but have been blown away* by (in this order): Saturn, The Moon, Jupiter, Orion Nebula, The Pleiades, Double Cluster in Perseus, The Ring Nebula in Lyra, M13 Globular Cluster in Hercules & the Andromeda Galaxy. These are also my "showreel" objects for any adult friends who don't immediately glaze over when I start banging on about astronomy... *(When I say "blown away" I mean grudging acknowledgement that the view is "quite cool" on all but Saturn & the Moon which rate an "awesome"). Clear skies and have fun! EDIT: Meant to add, you can screw a DSLR pretty much straight onto an ST80 to have a go at some Moon pictures & see if you get that bug...

I too have now bookmarked this, thank you @Tiny Clanger…

Thank you! Yes it is a Berlebach 312 report with an SW pillar. Hiding behind the scope is an AZ GTi.

The postman safely brought a ToPic 80mm f15 today (Towa 339). All looks in good order on the “church spire” test. Just need these clouds to clear…

Had a short session last night with the Clarkson, mainly to test out alignment on the AZ GTi and see if it would behave. Transparency was not great but the generalised high cloud broke into bands so some obersving was possible in the gaps. Jupiter - started with Jupiter, quite low down and not a super view, 2 equatorial bands visible and glimpses of a third in the Northern hemisphere. Noted that I could only see three of the Galilean moons, sadly I missed the shadow transit but made a nice observation of Io emerging very close the limb. Nice split of Almach, good colour contrast - this 'scope works really well with the BCO 18mm giving 63x. Polaris - secondary visible intermittently with the 10mm BCO giving 114x, Epsilon Lyra - scruffy view, split the wider pair with the 10mm, view became too poor with the 6mm to split the second pair at 190x. Playing with the GoTo I aligned on Jupiter and Vega and on asked for GoTo on M57 - to my surprise given the conditions the the 32mm Plossl showed a tiny grey full stop right where it should be. Stepping up magnification I was able to see the central ring quite well at 114x against a reasonably rich field - looking on Stellarium I think I was seeing down to around 11th Magnitude. Not bad on an iffy night with a 120 year old 'scope! For fun I slewed to M31 and in the 32mm had a nice view of the fuzzy core with some surrounding nebulosity. Nice to finish with an extragalactic first for the Clarkson. For some reason I find it very satisfying to slew this old brass tube around using distinctly 21st century WiFi smartphone tech, all very Steampunk

I think that’s a neat summary yes. The zoom gives great views and I won’t be fiddling about with Orthos in the Mak when it gets to minus 5 in a few weeks! I bought the Orthos to go with a growing collection of old refractors. Their simplicity and weight seemed an appropriate upgrade on the often murky .965s or very old RAS fit glass that these old ‘scopes tend to come with. Gratuitous Classic refractor photos follow…

On the BCOs I have got much more use out of the 18mm & 10mm than the 6mm - both of the longer Fls also Barlow well to 8 & 4.4mm respectively - eye relief seems to improve over the 6mm. (Having said that, on the odd very still night the 6mm was great on the planets and works beautifully on the moon & doubles in my ever growing collection of ancient small 'fracs...). I think EP choice is always going to be a highly subjective business, all part of the fun

@Tiny Clanger Fair enough Heather, I note that a few places still have them at £49 (Harrison) or £52 (RVO) so now might be a good time to hoover up old stock BSTs get great reviews, for me though "substantial" = weight, & doing a lot with classic refractors with droopy old drawtubes, weight is bad! Build quality on the BCOs is lovely, all metal and nicely finished. I'm lucky in that I seem to get on ok with shorter eye relief & bought the BCOs as part of a "minimum glass" set-up. Happened to end up using the BCOs in the Mak too & found them excellent. I'm looking for more Orthos in other fls to give a convenient range of mags, specifically 12.5mm, 25mm, 5mm & 4mm. Thinking about the Starbase range or ponying up for a Tak Abbe and seeing if it lives up to the price...

Hi @PeterC65 - All great points above especially spending time at the eyepiece on the planets, on all but those rare nights seeing will come and go with sometimes 4 or 5 seconds of great seeing in an otherwise mediocre hour - I didn't cotton on to this until a few sessions had gone by. My main 'scope at the moment is the SW Mak127 and I have the Baader Mk IV zoom and a set of Baader Classic Orthos. I'm in my first year of "proper" observing and have been out looking at the gas giants 20 or so times since June time, on only two of those occasions I got seeing that was dramatically better than all the other sessions and that made a much, much bigger difference in what I could resolve than any difference between the orthos and the zoom. Certainly the zoom is capable of giving great views although I find the BCO's are a bit better for contrast which helps on the many less than perfect nights. (The BCOs are great on other targets too in the Mak, the 18mm in particular pulls the best detail I've seen out of DSOs and Barlows very well to 8mm with the 2.25x Barlow designed for the Zoom - at £48 I think they are amazing value, only wish they did more focal lengths!). The focussing point is another really good one, when the atmosphere is coming and going Jupiter in particular can be hard to focus on and to begin with I was constantly twiddling the focuser to no avail! Picking a star or Jupiter's moons is a great tip. Over the course of the season I've seen the GRS well (although its a lower contrast feature than I was expecting), up to 6 bands on Jupiter + darkened polar regions, on the best night I could see detail in the edges of the bands and a darker "barge". I've watched a couple of transits one of which was very sharp, the other coming and going. On Saturn I've found its often crisper than Jupiter and on the best nights the Mak can deliver the Cassini division, some subtle banding on the disc and 3 moons. I think my favourite Saturn feature is the shadow of the rings on the planet and vice versa - makes an almost 3D view. Over the last couple of weeks I've noticed the views are fading rapidly as the gas giants sink lower, like lots of others on here my southern view is over rooftops and seeing, disc-size and atmospheric CA are rapidly impeding the picture. Already looking forward to more long planetary sessions in shirtsleeves next summer!

Great thread btw - really interesting, real astronomy topic!

Quick peeks, iffy forecast, moonlit nights, gas-giants = home or local park (better horizons & less security lighting). SQM 20.2, Bortle 5. Moonless nights with a good forecast & Messier hunting = 10 minute drive to a spot on the South Downs. SQM 21.04, Bortle 4. (Armed with a big maglite for personal security!).

I find that this Prinz (circle K lensed) 60mm 710mm fl shows Polaris beautifully - I think its a quirk of the optical ratios but I see the secondary as a pale blue/white ghost sitting on the outside of a single diffraction ring of a yellowish primary with a neat airy disc. Its a gem of an objective on brighter doubles.

Thank you Chris. I think she prefers the C100E...

Thanks so much - am even more excited to receive it now!

Thanks Dave - this is helpful indeed! I have a Vixen adapter doing a similar job on my Hilkin 60mm f13, so you're saying the thread sizes on the Towa are the same and I just unscrew the existing adapter and replace? If so that would be amazing. As for knocking out baffles with a screwdriver this will be a new threshold of brutality in scope modification for me who has so far been limited to some light flocking...definitely sounds worth the risk however! On mounting, I've been running an old Clarkson brass 3inch f15 successfully on my AZGTi (uprated with the ADM clamp) and Berlebach 312 Report - its quite solid and tracks without vibration provided its not too windy! I am working on the basis that the Topic will be the same length and a bit lighter as its aluminium not brass. In all cases, its part of the fun finding out - I'll post on progress when it arrives and thanks again for the sagely advice! (This will be my fourth classic refractor & I suspect not my last, for example there's a 60mm Unitron and a couple of Zeiss Telementors on eBay right now. There's something special about the pin-sharp stars on inky backgrounds and also the nostalgia factor, as a boy with a (borderline unusable) Tasco 4-VTE these were the 'scopes I aspired to! I might have to change my username to SuburbanFrac...) Mark

I fed the eBay beast again today picking up a Topic (Towa I believe) 80mm f15 OTA. I’ve been looking for a classic Japanese 3in for a while and fingers crossed although there’s a few scuffs on the paintwork this one looks to have clean optics and a smooth focuser. The sale includes no mount but rings and dovetail, so should be good to go on my existing mount & tripod. I have a Vixen threaded adapter that I think will fit the drawtube to accept 1.25” diagonal but looking at this setup suspect I may need additional extension to reach focus. Any detail on Topic-branded scopes generally welcome and specifically conversion of this model to 1.25” inch use. would be amazing , I know there’s a few of these ‘scopes out there in SGL land