wesdon1

Hi all. So because the weather is still awful here in Liverpool UK, I have decided to try find a gap in clouds and grab a few minutes worth of video of Jupiter and/or Saturn and process their frames to hopefully get some nice final images. I will be using my ZWO 224MC Planetary Camera, my Newtonian Reflector 200/1000, obviously mounted on my big HEQ5 Mount. I'll be doing around 3 X 90 second vids on each planet, at a frame rate of around 150-200/sec.

My question is, would using a 3X or even 5X  Barlow be beneficial in terms of image quality? What I mean is, will increasing the FL of my 'scope so far with said Barlow's ( 3X/3000mm FL and 5X/5000mm Fl, respectively ) be "too zoomed in" and degrade the image quality? I want to use higher power Barlow's due to my Newtonians 1000mm FL not really being "zoomed in" enough, as say in comparison to a 8inch SCT with a native 2000mm FL which is easily increased to 4000mm FL with just a 2X Barlow.

Last year i imaged planets with a eyepiece Projection adaptor fitted with a 10mm EP and a DSLR camera and the results were poor. Very blurred images/frames.

Thanks in advance if anyone can give me any tips.

Wes.

17 hours ago, Swillis said:

@wesdon1 After rereading the astronomiser page I may be wrong. I'm assuming it is the rear filter which has been removed. So if your using a refractor you may need a UV/IR filter. I'd wait for one of the more knowledgeable people on here to come back!

'The front filter remains and blocks the vast majority of the UV and IR light which is not wanted for normal astroimaging because, with refractors, this UV and IR light is not brought to focus at the same point as visible light and causes 'star bloating' where stars appear as larger white discs rather than pinpoints of light'

So if your using a refractor you may need a UV/IR filter. I'd wait for one of the more knowledgeable people on here to come back!

I have a modded 600d with a samyang 135 which begs the question of should I be using one!??

@Swillis I'm not sure if you need one for yours mate? If your mod is same as mine then maybe try the UV/IR filter with your samyang 135 and see how your images look? 

Btw thanks so much for helping me, I really appreciate it thanks. I'd be lost without the help and guidance from yourself and other SGL members!

5 hours ago, ollypenrice said:

M31 reaches well beyond your present field of view.

This will give you an idea of what's to be had within your field and either side of it. You certainly need a lot more signal but this won't do you much good unless you can flatten your image effectively - that's to say remove sky gradients.  In this orientation the upper left half of your image has a very bright patch of background which will probably be coming from LP. It is certainly not signal from M31.

Because I shoot from a dark site I'm not very experienced in fighting severe gradients like this but the starting point would be something like Dynamic Background Extraction in Pixinsight or one of the other gradient tools from another astro-specific software. These will all be more successful with more exposure - much more.

Olly

@ollypenrice Thanks so much for such a detailed and helpful message Olly. I agree the light patch in my image is indeed LP, specifically these two pain in the backside white LED lights that shine right into my refractors objective from the right side of my rig outside, so i'm going to have to find a way shielding the refractors objective from those damn lights.

Yes I will keep getting more and more data on M31 until i have many hours total, then see how i get on processing.

Thanks Olly

16 hours ago, alacant said:

Therefore keep it simple. The filter you need is retained. Only the IR mirror/reflector has been removed.

Depending upon the type, in a light polluted sky, the L-pro does a good job of passing what you want whilst eliminating the rubbish. It will help you expose for longer; which is what you need to get those elusive spiral arms.

On one occasion, imaging only 5km or so from Alicante, it allowed us to double the exposure time of our non-filtered frames.

Siril? We put together a simple processing guide for EOS/Ti models:

https://linuxcb.blogspot.com/2023/09/siril-dslr-processing.html

Cheers and HTH

Thank you for the processing guide @alacant I will give it a try this evening. Also thanks so much for going to the trouble of trying to help me, I would be lost without places like SGL.

On 17/09/2023 at 18:27, fatjon said:

Hello all. Just finished building my observatory near Gainsborough. Anyone else near me, I’m going to be in need of all kinds of advice?

I have a Pulsar dome and a Celestron 8SE with an EQ6 and EQMOD. ZWO 1600MC Cool, filter wheel etc. Quite new to this but the doc says I have to give up pies and beer so here comes a new hobby!

Computers, science and electronics are my area and astronomy fascinates me so I think I chose the right one.

 

 

 

@fatjon Hi John, welcome to SGL. I'm miles away in Liverpool, unfortunately.

You have quite an expensive setup there, really great gear. I would suggest you work on getting your guiding as good as possible, as at such a relatively long focal length, guiding will need to be good. So make sure you balance your rig really well, have your tripod as close to perfectly level as possible. Also make sure you get your mount polar aligned properly, and do a 3 star alignment, it all helps your guiding be more precise. Once you have good guiding, your only limiting factor will be local light pollution and the filters you use to determine how long your sub-exposures can be before light pollution starts creeping in significantly. 

I see you have a reducer so that's definitely a big help in more ways than one. 

More than anything else though John, take your time and try enjoy the experience. This hobby takes a lot of practice and perseverance. One big advantage you have over someone like myself is your knowledge of computer software, because a lot of the hobby involves using various software programmes to process your data/images. I have struggles with that side of the hobby but i'm getting better all the time.

best of luck John, this hobby is a wonderful one...

Btw good for you trying to lose some weight, my dad is doing the same thing, he's really struggling with it but he's persevering, Bless him.

Clear Skies, Wes.

58 minutes ago, Swillis said:

Which mod is it?

For the usual astro-mod (removal of the rear filter only) you should not need a UV/IR filter. But for a full spectrum mod you will need a UV/IR filter

Happy to be corrected on this...

Hi @Swillis thanks for chipping in/helping.

It's just the hot filter removal, not the full spectrum mod. So i'm guessing the other filter will remain in place? If so then just to confirm, I won't need the IR/UV cut filter?

I sent the camera to Andy Ellis of Astronomiser website, he was recommended by experienced folk on here. Andy has posted it back and i'm expecting it tomorrow or friday.

1 minute ago, Albir phil said:

Hi again a modified is not the best for galaxy imaging 

@Albir phil Yes I have just mearned this from Elp thanks Phil, but i am hoping to get better red ha data in galaxies, which will helpo with overall colour variation in my galaxy images. The most exciting part of astro-mod for me is the nebula potential, I'm really looking to getting better neb data!

1 minute ago, Elp said:

As it's full spectrum you'll need to use a UV/IR block filter otherwise the colours will be wrong due to the infra red. The mod will also increase the sensitivity to hydrogen alpha so you'll capture more of the red gaseous emission regions. It doesn't really help with broadband targets like galaxies (other than the red regions) but you'll notice the difference when imaging emission nebulae.

@Elp yes i'll use a uv/ir filter when imaging galaxies with it, thanks Elp. I don't expect miracles with the astro-mod on galaxy data, but getting more red Ha data will definitely be a bonus!

1 minute ago, Elp said:

Image on a per sub basis according to your LP levels trying to ensure it doesn't encroach on top of the target.

Yes, as you're using a DSLR it's quantum efficiency is already hampered without blocking more signal with an LP filter. It's possible to use but you'd have to image for much longer in total compared to non filtered. Andromeda is reasonably bright so you can get a good image within a few short hours total.

I for got to mention to you Elp, I sent my T3i off for an astro-mod, specifically a hot filter removal, if I recall correctly. So i'm hoping that will help in some way with galaxy data, but i'm also excited about it's potential with emission nebs, I hear they really pop with the astr-mods?

Thanks again Elp, i'll keep the post updated, thanks mate.

11 minutes ago, Albir phil said:

Yes the arms are there , as it's been said I to think you push curve's and level's more ,also saturation but be careful with it . Play about with colour channels. You can always give it another try if you go too far with any process.👍

@Albir phil Hi Phil, thank you for helping.

I'm going to try out both Elp's and your suggestions, thanks mate. As a side note, I sent my t3i camera for an astro-mod and it's due back tomo0rrow, so I might have more luck with galaxy data when using a full spectrum camera. I'll keep the post updated, thanks.

Thanks again Phil, I really do appreciate the help and adsvice.

35 minutes ago, Elp said:

What does your histogram look like?

Also drop the Lpro, it's blocking a lot of signal. The arms can be seen a little in your image, I think the data can be pushed harder.

You can remove LP gradients easily in Siril doing the background extraction operation, it'll transform how much you can level stretch the image.

What camera are you using, if it's an astro one typically (most come with glass which passes all light, check the camera spec) for broadband targets you only really need to use a UV/IR block filter or luminence to control star bloat mainly.

@Elp Hi and thank you Elp. The camera is a canon T3i unmodded, sorry, I forgot to include it.

I'm at Bortle 7'ish, so would you suggest i do, say, 1 minute or less subs to avoid most the LP and just acquire many hours total integration, while not using the L-pro? 

Ok thanks I'll try BE in Siril like you suggest, and have another few go's at improving my image, thanks Elp

Thank You so much for helping me Elp

Hi all. So for a while now I've been really really struggling getting the outer arms of my galaxy images to show in processing. My latest attempt had around 2.4 hours of total integration, but yet STILL in processing, even if i stretch the data so far the core is hideously blown out, the outer spiral arms are still practically invisible?? does this mean the data simply isn't there? Also, I was imaging andromeda about 8 moon diameters from an almost full moon, would this affect outer arms/my ability to capture outer arms?? Tbh i'm getting desperate now, I don't know what I am doing wrong?? ... 

Any tips or advice would be greatly appreciated. Thank You all in advance for anything you can say to help...

140 mins total exposure/integration

Optolong L-pro Filter

Canon T3i unmodded

66/400 refractor ( F5.9 )

HEQ5 Pro Mount

Photoshop

*The second Andro' image is the best I can stretch data so far. Also, I couldn't get a background extraction in SIRIL. Lots more to learn! LOL

Thank You again to everyone who's tried helping me, I really do appreciate it thanks.

On 05/09/2023 at 12:58, Bluesboystig said:

Hi everyone, super excited, got my first session last night and went for NGC7000. Needless to say, I have a shedload to learn and a lot of pick up for processing, but wanted to share with you and ask for any advice, comments, suggestions etc. 

Equipment used: Star Adventurer GTI, WO z61 with flat61, Canon eos2000d unmodded, Optolong L-Pro. 86 lights (55s each) for a total of 1h15mins of integration time, 15 darks, 15 flats, 15 bias frames. (I think I have some dust on the sensor, I see there are some circular artefacts in the image). Bortle 6 sky in Berkshire

FIT file at the bottom

NGC7000.fit 204.47 MB · 8 downloads

@Blueboy Brilliant image mate, even better considering it's your first attempt. I've been doing astro-imaging for roughly 1 year and mine aren't this good! LOL. 

Clear Skies! Wes, Liverpool ( Bortle 7 )

23 hours ago, andrew s said:

I think this is one of the very few places on the web, or elsewhere come to that, where one can have a civilised conversation on science related topics. 

It has a concentration of science aware individuals with a broad range of knowledge and skills and it's all the better for that.

Regards Andrew 

@andrew s I concur with your sentiments Andrew. This is indeed one of a small number of places online where people can have the most interesting conversations and debates, and it is nearly always civil and respectful, save for the rare one off individual who is here for all the wrong reasons.

My goodness if I mentioned GR or QM on my Facebook page ( which I did attempt on a couple of occasions! ) I get either total silence or total ridicule! ( and I have to admit, it really hurt my feelings, because I really couldn't/don't undr4stand why people need to be so rude? If they don't like something, they can tell me in a polite and respectful manner? )

Furthermore, whenever I post beautiful astro pics on facebook, most people love the pics, but have ZERO interest in the science behind the pic they're looking at?? Really baffles me, to be honest...

Kind Regards, Wes

4 minutes ago, maw lod qan said:

I can't believe this thread is still expanding! 😁

@maw lod qan I was just commenting about the fact this thread has really got people going! I never realised people felt so strongly about GR and QM and Newtonian laws etc!? 

My goodness this subject matter has really got people going. Personally I had to stand back from the debate when people much much more intelligent than me started mentioning things I can't even spell properly, let alone understand!? Haha! 

Seriously though, I have read/seen some incredible comments in this thread. Total respect...

9 minutes ago, wookie1965 said:

Could you not get a trolly something like this https://www.therange.co.uk/diy/building-equipment-and-materials/hand-trucks-and-trolleys/folding-wagon-multipurpose-trolley/?gclid=Cj0KCQjwl8anBhCFARIsAKbbpySgxjrl5xg1wGjio0lM0LW8OqPnCrPiK4eg7oBBs_L3UKGVSqgNGgwaAsidEALw_wcB#4887186

Best wishes 

Paul 

@wookie1965 Oh wow! Now that's something I've never thought of Paul!?? I could wheel all my gear along landings, then use it's frame as two handles to carry it down the stairs parts of the trip down and up?? Thanks so much Paul, I've never even thought of anything like this!? It could be such a game changer for me when having such a hard time with those damn stairs! 

Again thank you so much Paul, i'll almost certainly buy this or very similar device. I'll keep you/the thread posted on how I get on mate.

Kindest Regards and many thanks, Wes

On 30/08/2023 at 15:53, John said:

I've owned a couple of (visual) setups which proved too heavy and clumbersome to be practical in my circumstances. I don't have an observatory so my gear is kept in the house and needs to be setup / taken down for a session. Due to obstructions around the observing area I need to be able to move my scope around to some extent once it is setup. 

My principle aim over the past years though has been to have setups that are really quick and simple to put out and bring back in. That way I get much more observing in than I would if I used more complex setups. 

Nothing sadder than a decent scope not being used because, after the initial fit of enthusiasm, the owner finds that it's just too much effort / trouble to set up and tear down for what can turn out to be quite short sessions with the unpredictability of the UK weather. This is something that you kind of have to find out for yourself though. Looking back at the of setups that did not work out for me, I find the question "what were you thinking ?" springs to mind 🙄

At the time though, the potential downsides were over-ruled in my head by the rush of anticipation of "big, new kit" 😁

@John You talk total sense and wisdom John. I'm much less experienced than you but even after 5 years visual and almost 1 year imaging, I have learned that the best gear to buy is the gear you will actually use, and use most often. I was also caught up in the "aperture fever" early on ( still am, but much more sensible about what I now consider will be a practical, larger 'scope ) I think it is also fair to say, that with under 1 years worth of imaging experience under my proverbial belt, I am still caught up in the over-eagerness and excitement and desperation to get as much new gear, and as much imaging time outside as humanly possible. I feel I need to calm my excitement a little, and try just enjoy the ride more and not be so obsessed with what I might buy or image tomorrow.

Everything you say is totally sensible and shows your maturity and experince in the hobby John...

On 30/08/2023 at 16:17, Marvin Jenkins said:

I have been hitting the weights recently in preparation for ordering a Planewave. Just need to win the Loto now.

Marv

@Marvin Jenkins LOL I actually used to be a serious amateur bodybuilder for roughly 10 years from my early 20's to early 30's, and have trained with heavy weights since 13. But I STILL feel exhausted from carrying my silly big/heavy rig down then up all the stairs at my flats! LOL. ( strictly speaking, weight lifting is great for strength/size, but rubbish for cardiovascular fitness )

As for the lottery, my goodness wouldn't it be incredible!! I'd design and have built my dream observatory somewhere dark in UK, and have a second holiday property in south USA with an Observatory, and have some of the biggest most expensive 'scopes money could buy! Oh if only...

4 minutes ago, Elp said:

I credit you for the determination, that takes some doing. After having an eq3-2, I decided to convert to smaller setups as they could be packed away into bags. Even my 130pds I had inside a 70L backpack. Now my C6 with hem15 and all imaging gear and battery fit inside that 70L, so it's usually just that and a tripod in hand. Same with my refractor or lens setups, but with those the tripod can also fit in the bag.

@elp Thanks mate. Yes I use a 50L bag for the small refractor, but when using the big 8" newt, I have the 50L bag on back with cameras, power box etc etc in it, and carry the newt with left hand, and have the HEQ5 on my right shoulder, and it's literally like that 80's/90's show the CRYPTON FACTOR having to slowly methodically negotiate corners, stairs etc without banging my gear on walls, railings etc! LOL. When using the little refractor, I can just put it in bag on back and only have the HEQ5 on my right shoulder, which is still hard work, but much less difficult than when i have the big beast with me.

Definitely getting a full lightweight setup in coming months though! 

On 30/08/2023 at 15:13, Elp said:

This is true. Even though all my setups are backpack (20kg plus) friendly (tripod and camera accessories bag in hands), sometimes I just can't, and like to use my Samyang or camera body instead. Unless you have a garage door opening and carry out onto drive, it's usually a lot of hassle, especially when it comes to bringing it back in quietly. Even lifting the whole setup over a step becomes an exercise in contortion and ligament injury inducing. Yes you can take it out/bring it back in in steps, but I have no issue carrying my whole samyang rig fully connected up and down stairs out and back in.

 

@Elp I live on 3rd floor of flats with no lifts, so I have to carry my entire rig, all in one go, down all the stairs. I am too afraid of carrying it all down in two or three trips because of a local man who is a severe drug addict, and has already stolen my brothers brand new bike. We couldn't prove it though, so we're stuck. He would literally steal your kidneys out your body if he knew a way to get them out! LOL. But even without the fear of crime, I still dread carrying my big HEq5 pro, either my 200/1000 newtonian or small Altair 66/400, power box, cameras, batteries, flask of coffee etc etc! Carrying it all back up is even worse! LOL.

( I'm planning on buying a much lighter mount in the near future, and only using the big beast ( 200/1000 newtonian ) and HEQ5 when I am going for a target that warrants it )

Clear Skies!

Hi again all. I found this interesting vid by the gorgeous and very interesting Dr Becky Smethurst on YT. It is a rather pertinent video for this current thread, I felt...

Clear skies!

I was just thinking, after a friend, who's super new to astronomy. I was trying to explain to him that he really doesn't ( shouldn't?? ) go out and buy a super heavy super expensive rig to begin with, because the extra heavy weight of all the gear, will make him less likely to be motivated to setup on clear nights etc. he retorted "Oh don't be silly Wes! I don't care if something is heavy!? I'm a strong enough bloke to carry any size rig in and out the back garden!" I tried to further explain that he will be much more likely to use his gear if it's light and portable, and that he has plenty of time in future to get super heavy super expensive gear. He just laughed...

He reminded me of a few years ago when i was new, and I had the exact same attitude. But I quickly learned that no matter how fit n strong you are, it really really does matter how heavy and cumbersome your gear is, it really does affect your motivation to carry it all outside! I learned the hard way, and I fear my good friend will too! LOL

Hi again guys, I just wanted to update the post and say a big thank you to all who gave recommendations and guidance, thanks so much.

So I've contacted both Juan of Cheapastrophotography and Andy of Astronomiser, and I'm still waiting for a reply from either. Whichever of the two gets back in touch first will get my purchase. 

Thanks again guys, I'm extremely grateful!

Clear Skies!

Just now, bottletopburly said:

Try Juan at https://www.cheapastrophotography.com

done canon 1000 D  and fixed my 500d which he went above and beyond to fix , highly recommended 👍.

 

 

@bottletopburly Thanks so much for the recommendation! I'll take a look at the website/person thanks! 

Kindest Regards, Wes