Starguider v Hyperion

[Alfian]

I've been hunting around for an 18 - 20 (ish) EP for a while (particularly with the Tal1 in mind). The more I look, the more the budget goes up. After considering the X-Cel Lx 'd more or less decided on the 18mm BST Starguider in fact I'd thought of the 18 and the 12. But then I started thinking of the Hyperion EPs, initially the 21 but then the 17mm. At 68 degrees this gives me a wider fov than the 18 BST at 60 degrees. Optically would I be better sticking with the Starguiders or buying into the Hyperion system. One additional thought. The hyperion is a lot heavier than the Starguider, would this be an issue in the Tal1s humble focuser?

[steppenwolf]

Hyperions are lovely EPs but work best in F6 or greater instruments so the F7.3 of your Tal should be fine. I use Hyperions myself but have heard good things about BSTs although mainly in relation to faster optics.

Hopefully, EP guru John will be along shortly ........

[nightfisher]

I have owned all the starguiders, and they are really good, some might not like me saying this but i rate them much higher than the lx`s, cant comment on the Hyperions but a fair bit more money, the 18mm starguider is a real peach, i have a BGO 18mm and the BST compares to it but with wider fov

[ronin]

One aspect that is usually ignored is that the Starguiders are parfocal so when changing eyepieces there is less refocusing required. It is not a big problem but worth throwing into the pot.

Like Jules I have all the Starguiders and I find them excellent, as long as your expectations are realistic. They are not going to match a Nagler or Ethos but I can get the whole set of 6 and have £100-150 left over for the price of 1 of either. For the cost and performance they are hard to beat. Wonder if someone can talk Barsta into making a 30mm Starguider?

I cannot comment from experience on the Hyperons, they have a following, they also seem to have a few problems. Bit odd in that the "problems" are not really specific. Some people say how good, others how poor for almost the same reasons.

My other eyepieces are really the TV plossls. I have the TV Plossls and the BST's for almost the same reason = they have seemed to get generally consistant reports of being good. So they are it appears a "safe" purchase.

[Charic]

I can't vouch for the hyperions, but IMHO my money has been well spent on the BST Starguiders. I feel my 8mm betters the Televue 8mm in the comfort stakes, and actually looks / feels better than the lightweight, Televue Plossl, despite Televue being market leaders! 

[ghostdance]

@Charic Lol...But seriously, after HOW many minutes comparing? j/k

[Charic]

......I did take a drive to a darker site, so not counting the drive, it may have only been seconds?    I don't profess to be an expert in comparing optical qualities, but the view was wider and the relief was longer  with the  8mm BST ( I was pre-warned about this) The contrast, I believe, was no different, under the viewing conditions that night. Every telescope  good or bad has an eyepiece combination that will work  at its best, for the end user,  Its finding that combination?

Its just my opinion that the TeleVue 8mm Plossl is no good (for my requirements) TeleVue are THE market leaders, by all accounts,  and I don't doubt, that someday in the future, if/ when I have a faster and larger apertured telescope, my BST's just won't cut the mustard  on say an f/4 telescope, and that I may have to invest in a Delos or  two with a Panoptic?

[nightfisher]

I have never looked through an 8mm TV plossl...................but i would always take the BST having owned one, as i know what plossls are like at this focal length..........very hard work. Its funny i can use an ortho down to 4mm, but i can not get on with a plossl at 6.3mm

[russ.will]

I'll throw in the 16mm Maxvison SWA. If you don't wear glasses, it leaves the BSTs and Hyperions in the dust.

Russell

[Special K]

I do enjoy my 17mm Hyperion and have the 12mm Starguider as well. I don't have an 18mm but the 12 gives nice views. Both EPs will have astigmatism as you view toward the edges. I think the wider field of the Hyperion is what impressed me, but it's a tough call between them tbh. 17 or 18 will give a nice pupil exit in your scope as it is near to the 2.4mm ideal for focus by the eye, and the mag is just under 50x.

The weight of the Hyperion wasn't an issue in my 130P. Enjoy choosing!

[Alfian]

thanks everyone for the contributions, it has certainly reinforced the impression of the Starguiders quality against good "opposition". Good also to hear (Kevin) that the weight of the Hyperion is not an issue in the 130P.  The Maxvision is an interesting one Russell. The 16mm is a little bit out of my 18-20 range and although I tend not to use my specs with the telescope(s) ( my right eye is pretty good, less so the left!) its good to feel comfortable regarding eye relief. However the 20mm Maxvision might go on the option list. 

I'm not sure if its available here but its advertised here: http://www.explorescientific.co.uk/en/Eyepieces/Maxvision-68-Okular-20mm.html

At that price plus shipping, it works, converted) to out around £62. All very tempting! 

One possible issue, out of my hands, is to some degree it depends on how much of  a "good boy" I've been. I definitely don't qualify for a Panoptic and I may be looking at a back issue of Astronomy Now = but who knows Santa may look kindly. 

Any further suggestions welcome, and also apologies for inadvertently sparking a Televue/Starguider debate.

[Charic]

......Debate!... Tele Vue are market leaders, no doubt,  they lead by example. They will probably have the flattest views across their field, edge to edge, compared to the BSTs, especially on faster f/4 telescopes ( I think thats their guarantee?)  I'm sure a Delos 6mm with 72° afov would be fine on my scope, with its 20mm ER, but their 8mm Plossl is far from comfortable for my  use/needs. If you want to buy  premium EPs, get some Tele Vue EPs in your collection. But choose wisely, and if you can get them in excellent condition, second hand, more savings to enjoy.

Personally, buying EPs that cost more than the telescope, I will often wonder if the scope itself is any good? Its the telescope that collects the photons and provides the image, the EP just allows you to magnify that image. But with the faster Newtonian scopes the light cone is steeper requiring more correction from your eyepieces, so maybe there is no choice, but to buy into premium EPs, hence the higher prices these superior lenses acquire. One EP will not be best in all scope/user combinations. You have to find the one that suits you, your needs, and your eyes.

I just wanted to try a Plossl against the BST and favoured the BST, Learning from experience, rather than just advice, although the advice here at SGL has been favourable so far.

I dont have a BST that I don't like, and still contemplating the 3.2mm to complete my 'set'.  Whatever you buy, it will either be good, or bad,  if bad,  you will sell on and continue to search and  find what's best. Only issue I have encountered  was with the TMB 6mm Planetary II?

[Alfian]

I was not debating the quality of Televue optics, that seems to be an absolute, I was making light hearted reference to the discussion over the merits of the 8mm EP. Thanks for the comments.

[ghostdance]

I agree....hardly a debate, just a gentle joshing

Eyepieces are such personal and individual choice (not to mention budgets - I'd love to try some £££ ep's but my wallet would cut its throat) - what suits one may not suit another. Charic's dead right, buy (or borrow, or try out at a meet) some different makes/mags: the ones you like (the 'good' ) keep and try more; the ones you don't ( the 'bad' ) move em on but keep an open mind; and the poor quality ones (the ugly) lay em down on and avoid from henceforward.

Pretty soon, we all have a nice little collection of our individual faves (in my case Televue Plossls, for Charic BST Starguiders, for someone else Maxvisions).

Reminds me, I really must spend more time with my solitary MV, haven't really given it a fair shakedown...

Gotta go...I need to have some cherish time with my green & black

[John]

The 8mm Tele Vue plossl has 6mm of eye relief which is pretty much the same as all other plossls of this focal length. It's rather inflexible rubber eyecup does make it quite challenging to access the full 50 degree field of view but you can fold the eye cup back if needed. Optically it is a very fine performer and I've found, within the constraints of it's 50 degree field of view, that it rivals the best 8mm eyepieces that I've used including my 8mm Ethos.

But I can quite understand why people would prefer to use eyepieces with more eye relief and larger fields of view as those will be easier to use.

On the topic raised by the original poster, In the TAL 1 I don't think you would gain anything by opting for a Hyperion over the BST Starguider apart from around 8 degrees apparant field of view.  

[ghostdance]

Alfian, lemme know if you want to try the TV 8mm for a few days - happy to oblige in the new year

[Alfian]

Hi ghostdance, its probably unlikely I'll take you up on that, but its extremely kind of you to offer and the good will is much appreciated. If you lived round the corner and I could collect and deliver personally - then I must just be tempted.

I've gone from asking advice about 18-20mm EPs,  to being offered a loan of an 8mm Televue. The astronomical community is quite remarkable!  I've only been a "member" but a relatively short time but I'm always so impressd by  the altruistic kindness of astro' enthusiasts  at home and the world over. Pity it can't be bottled and sprayed around a bit more! 

I'll let you know which way the dice fall in the new year. In the mean time, Xmas cheer to all.

[ghostdance]

You're welcome Alfian And a Cool Yule back!

I see you have the Vixen NPL 15. How is it? I have the 20 & 30 and have been pretty pleased with em, especially considering their cost - I've not regretted having them in my collection. Good build quality to boot.

[AndyWB]

Just as a note on the speed side of things - I tried the 5, 10, 17 and 21 Hyperions in my f4.8 dob. They were all terrible. The BSTs are fine. Just something to think about if you were ever going to think of faster focal ratios. In a slower scope - an f6 refractor - the Hyperions were lovely. I reckon around 68 degrees is what I find most comfortable.

[Alfian]

You're welcome Alfian And a Cool Yule back!

I see you have the Vixen NPL 15. How is it? I have the 20 & 30 and have been pretty pleased with em, especially considering their cost - I've not regretted having them in my collection. Good build quality to boot.

In all honesty I do not have much to compare it with, and it has to be said that the Tal  and the Mak makes "more of my EPs than the F5 scopes I've used. However, the Vixen NPL is the pick of the bunch. A cut above the rest. Eye relief is pretty reasonable, so barlowing down to 6mm (ish) works well. Some people have commented that the NPLs  build quality is not so good, but mine seems sturdy enough.   

Thanks Andy, worth knowing.

[MattJenko]

Andy is right, I also would avoid the Hyperions if contemplating faster scopes at any point, as my Hyperion zoom does not match up well in my fast dob with my other EPs, but is fine in the slower refractor.