Help Getting Started

[RichM63]

This is not a criticism, more an observation.

A recent thread about How to Photograph The Milky Way had me thinking.

One of the problems from an absolute beginner aspect is that there are very few 'Start by trying this' type of guides around.

Even at the top of this 'Getting Started with Imaging' section there isn't one Sticky showing explanations or How-To go about things, which is where I would expect to find the info'.

As someone who wants to get started and should receive a DSLR in September I have found it difficult to find basic information.

jgs/John provides a great Widefield guide under the Hints and Tips section but it is somewhat buried in the highly technical Imaging sections and fortunately I knew that the Milky Way would come under Widefield.

As a novice I need a spot of handholding right down to 'set your camera to this' for a first trial run and this is what we mean by;

Darks, Flats, Bias, Light Frames, Subs, and Dark Flats, (there is a thread from 2011 in the Image Processing section ) but I wouldn't have thought to go there if I'm struggling to work out how to get an image in the first place.

Some of you folks have written great guides to help a novice get started, perhaps a few of them could head this 'Getting Started with Imaging' section, even if it is just to add an index cross link back into one of the more specific Imaging sections.

I fully understand that too many stickies are not ideal, but a few basics would help narrow down the quest.

All the very best,

Rich

[wuthton]

Unfortunately i

As someone who wants to get started and should receive a DSLR in September I have found it difficult to find basic information.

jgs/John provides a great Widefield guide under the Hints and Tips section but it is somewhat buried in the highly technical Imaging sections and fortunately I knew that the Milky Way would come under Widefield.

There are no general basic guides because it would be pointless to write one due to the many variables that effect every aspect of Astrophotography.

Let's take the simple sounding question "What length of exposure should I use?"

That question would only be greeted with:

What telescope do you have?

What mount?

Which camera?

Are you guiding?

How heavy is your light pollution?

Which target are you planning to capture?

Are you using filters? Etc etc

Unfortunately there is no substitute for trial and error with a lot of reading between time.

It's a very rewarding hobby though and if you have any specific questions they are always answered on here.

[carastro]

I've got a "How to image with a DSLR" page on my website.  It's ideal for beginners as I am not particularly technical.  Beginners say they find it easy to follow.

Wrote it originally for a cyber friend wanting to learn to image.

Website address in signature.

Carole 

[RichM63]

Nice one Carole, that DSLR How To guide is exactly the type of information I am talking about. You good people have written them,but sometimes we novices can't find them.

Thanks for the pointer.

Rich

[Lee_P]

Here's a very simple video guide on taking your first steps in astrophotography using a DSLR: 

Maybe it's the kind of thing you're after?

[CosmicBuffalo]

I've got a "How to image with a DSLR" page on my website.  It's ideal for beginners as I am not particularly technical.  Beginners say they find it easy to follow.

Wrote it originally for a cyber friend wanting to learn to image.

Website address in signature.

Carole 

Carole, I opened this thread as the heading was what resonated with my issues as a novice. Thanks for the guide! It really helped get my bearing.

Arick

[carastro]

Glad to have helped.

Carole

[RichM63]

Yes Carole, I'm onto my 3rd full reading, it is a great help.

I still reckon that it should be 'stuck' somewhere around here.

For my sake alone please do not take it down.

Cheers,

Richard

[carastro]

For my sake alone please do not take it down.

I'm not planning on taking it down Richard, but if you like to PM me your address I have it in PDF format and I can E mail it to you. 

Carole

[Gerhard]

Carole, that is one super useful link!!!

I'll have to start thinking about how to take my flats...

Tomorrow, weather permitting, I will be checking out that mountain viewing location, and trying a milky way shoot...

Are flats necessary also for this kind of photo?

[Knight of Clear Skies]

I've been thinking about writing a basic guide to widefield imaging I could point people at as I end up answering the same questions in different threads. I had lots of good help here when getting started here but some of my experiences don't quite match up with the advice I was given. I'll put something together if I can find the time but I'd need to think through how to make it useful. There are plenty of good guides out there but they don't address some of the problems I had - sometimes the simplest things can trip up a beginner.

[Digger1895]

I'm glad this thread has been revived as I wouldn't have found Carols link which is a terrific guide.

[Gerhard]

IMHO, it's a fine line between "getting your hands dirty and enjoying the discovery for yourself" and "frustration about not getting why the images aren't coming as desired, when maybe a quick look by an expert would point out an obvious mistake that solves a lot"...

Ie, too much information can get close to "well in that case I can also download a good image from internet, and be done with"... The fun of this all is also the road, not only the destination... 

A related issue is this: I have a good friend that lives in Namibia, and could maybe ask her to make some subs of the milky way when she goes out hiking (which she does). I would be doing post-production... But that wouldn't be the same, no? :-)

I'm not saying "don't write that guide", far from it, but there is such a thing as TMI in this field as well.... I repeat: IMHO...

I am still just touching the surface, and can't wait to get my hands dirty, but I would have been hopelessly lost if not for this forum, and others like it.... Flats??? What's that??? :-DD

Subs? aren't those divers, or sandwiches?? ;-)

still don't know why they are called "subs" here, though... maybe because they are part of a whole? A "sub-photograph"?

just my €0,02

[Gerhard]

re-reading my post, I'm not sure WHAT I was trying to convey.... Ignore as desired! :-)

[carastro]

I've been thinking about writing a basic guide to widefield imaging

Now that is an area where I have not had much success at all.  In particularly I find it very difficult to get focus with the stock lens.

I'd be very pleased for some-one to write one of these.

Carole 

[Alien 13]

I've been thinking about writing a basic guide to widefield imaging

Go for it your images are a testiment to it being do able without spending vast amounts of money.

Alan

[RichM63]

I've been thinking about writing a basic guide to widefield imaging I could point people at as I end up answering the same questions in different threads. I had lots of good help here when getting started here but some of my experiences don't quite match up with the advice I was given. I'll put something together if I can find the time but I'd need to think through how to make it useful. There are plenty of good guides out there but they don't address some of the problems I had - sometimes the simplest things can trip up a beginner.

That would be great, especially as you have just 'forced' me to buy a new 2 week old 50mm. LOL.

I'm finding that my un-postable forays into widefield AP are a great way to try and get into the various softwares, from trying camera settings, through stacking and later into processing and post processing.

The snag is, without basic guides, one overlooked step or setting can negate everything else.

Just seeing something recognizeable start to appear on the screen is very satisfying.

[Knight of Clear Skies]

Thanks for the encouraging comments, I'll see what I can do. I'm far from an expert imager but I'm quite well placed to write a guide as the problems I had getting started are still fresh in my mind. My focus would be imaging on a budget as that's what I understand. If I was starting from scratch I could put together an imaging rig for under £400 capable of taking images like this, although aiming that low does require some compromises.

I'm still very much in learning mode but I could always update it as I find things out.

IMHO, it's a fine line between "getting your hands dirty and enjoying the discovery for yourself" and "frustration about not getting why the images aren't coming as desired, when maybe a quick look by an expert would point out an obvious mistake that solves a lot"...

Ie, too much information can get close to "well in that case I can also download a good image from internet, and be done with"... The fun of this all is also the road, not only the destination... 

Don't worry, I can guarantee that no guide will ever turn astrophotography into a checklist exercise. Widefield imaging is neither easy nor hard but it's certainly a learning curve. There is plenty of scope for personal touches - you have to decide what to image, how to frame it and how to process the data into a final image.

That would be great, especially as you have just 'forced' me to buy a new 2 week old 50mm. LOL.

...

Just seeing something recognizeable start to appear on the screen is very satisfying.

The author cannot accept any responsibility for any astronomical expenses incurred.

Yes, the first time I captured Andromeda it was by accident, and it was just a smear on a grainy background. Was still very pleased to capture a whole other galaxy.

Now that is an area where I have not had much success at all.  In particularly I find it very difficult to get focus with the stock lens.

That's something I've struggled with but I now understand why. The kit lenses have low transmittance so quite a bit of light is lost before it reaches the sensor. Even at the same focal ratio as my prime lenses (say, f3.5) the kit produces a significantly darker image so only the brightest stars show up on live-view.

If there is a planet around I focus on that, using live-view, maximum aperture (lowest f-number) and a high ISO number. If not I need to find one of the brightest stars. I place the star a third of the way across the image as this gives better focus across the whole frame. I use maximum zoom on the liveview and turn the focuser backwards and forwards until the target star is as small and sharp as possible. I put a bit of bluetack on the focuser ring as the Canon lenses aren't really designed for manual focus and tend to slip, whereas my old Takumar lenses stay put. Finally I slew around to my target, take some framing shots and adjust the aperture, ISO and exposure time for my imaging run. (That's the kind of thing I can paraphrase in a guide, I've copied that text into a document.)

[happy-kat]

Can it not be done by tricking the lens.

Landscape mode let the camera focus on something as far away as it will see, then use switch on lens change to mf change camera dial to manual and carry on setting up the image.

I have yet to try this out but it theorises it might work.

[Gerhard]

Knight, that is already very useful info for a newbie like me! :-)

I'm still planning to go out tonight on my first attempt at the milky way, weather permitting.

Very basic: DSLR on static tripod... But my remote arrived, and I already programmed it for 50 20s subs. WIll do darks and bias as well, if just for exercise.

So, the tip of focussing on the brightest object in the sky will come in very handy. Not sure if I have blutack at home, though... Maybe scotch tape...  :-D

any other tips on the fly for this very low-tech first attempt? ;-)

[happy-kat]

How much of a gap is there between each exposure did you programme?

[Gerhard]

another 20secs. for cooling of the camera... too little?

[happy-kat]

Of don't know I was concerned there might have been none

[Gerhard]

Ah yes, just reminded myself: switch to RAW, and turn off noise reduction!!! Reminder to self.... :-)

[Knight of Clear Skies]

Knight, that is already very useful info for a newbie like me! :-)

I'm still planning to go out tonight on my first attempt at the milky way, weather permitting.

Very basic: DSLR on static tripod... But my remote arrived, and I already programmed it for 50 20s subs. WIll do darks and bias as well, if just for exercise.

So, the tip of focussing on the brightest object in the sky will come in very handy. Not sure if I have blutack at home, though... Maybe scotch tape...  :-D

any other tips on the fly for this very low-tech first attempt? ;-)

Hope you have a good trip. I've tried tape as well but blu-tack is better - leaves less of a mess on the focus ring and is less likely to fall off when it gets wet because of dew.

Couple things spring to mind. Make sure everything is tightened up on your tripod, I was getting streaks in my first images and it took me a while to work out that turning the handle tightened up one axis of movement. The action of the shutters rocks the camera slightly. Also, turning off the display when imaging reduces heat build-up and noise.

another 20secs. for cooling of the camera... too little?

Won't do any harm if you are in no hurry. I've heard people say the downtime should be the same as the exposure to cool the camera but I suspect that's terrible advice. It will reduce heat and noise, but at the expense of reducing precious exposure time and signal! I typically use ten to twenty seconds between two minute subs, have no idea if that's optimal but it works OK.