Newcomer Equipment Questions

[MikeP]

Hi again,

I introduced myself yesterday in the Welcome forum and received some advice on equipment. I've started a new thread here to ask some further questions.

Basically I am starting from scratch and want to observe deep sky but not neglect planetary. Once I am familiar with the equipment I would like to try astrophotography with a DSLR. I'm in danger of getting overexcited and have more questions than you can shake a stick at, but I'll try to limit myself for now.

• 
  [li]Captain Chaos suggested two scopes. I'd not considered that but I think it is the way to go. The Skymax 127 Maksutov looks perfect but I wondered why he suggested the 200mm Skywatcher rather than 250mm.[/li]
  [li]I have trawled the net and Skywatcher does seem popular and well regarded, so no problem with accepting the advice offered. However, I've been looking at Orion Optics since I'd like to buy British if it is at least as good as the imports. I'd considered the SPX range - are they worth the extra money? An SPX plus eyepieces implied a spend of between £2,000 and £3,000 - the two scopes suggested plus eyepieces would be not much more than half that - leaving loads for a new camera and other bits and bobs.[/li]
  [li]I wear glasses to read / use computer but otherwise eyesight is good. I'd appreciate suggestions on the makes, focal lengths and FOVs of eyepieces that will give me best views. Also should I be buying filters?[/li]
  [li]Slightly off the wall - is it OK to store equipment in a (secure!) garden shed?[/li]
  

Thanks again for the help so far. I'll be at Astrofest on Friday to have a look at whatever you suggest in the flesh.

Mike

[geppetto]

Best advise I can give is to consider the mount first.

It is/will be the one most important piece of kit in your set up.

If your going the multi scope route and might be considering

a 250mm reflector then you should go no less than an HEQ6 Pro mount

http://www.firstlightoptics.com/proddetail.php?prod=proeq6

[GordonCopestake]

I agree, the mount is the most important piece of equipment in your arsnal. The EQ6 is the best mount in it's price range but beware it's a heavy beast!

The 250 Newt will be great on top of it and will give you some great views of faint DSO stuff.

For planets I would consider an ED100 over the Mak127, it's slightly less aperture but being a refractor it has higher contrast, plus it's an APO which makes a world of difference. Also theres no need to mess around with collimation.

You can buy the ED100 on an EQ6 Pro for £1610 (minus any discounts). This will get you started and will be a great imaging rig if you do want to take photos.

http://www.firstlightoptics.com/proddetail.php?prod=pro100ed2ota

You can add the larger aperture OTA (Optical Tube Assembly) as and when you feel you've out grown the ED100, newts are fairly cheap for the aperture, especially second hand.

Eyepieces you can spend as much money as you have! Televue naglers are considered the "best of breed" but are expensive. A set of plossls will get you started though. You can get a full set for £99 in a nice case:

http://www.firstlightoptics.com/products.php?cat=81

As for storing kit in your shed, thats fine but you will want some sort of heating in there to keep the damp away. I use a 2kw heater set to "frost" and that keeps things above freezing when it's cold and keeps the damp away nicely.

When you have more questions (and you will have!) come back and ask, we are a friendly bunch and love spending other peoples money hehe

[Andrew*]

[i knew someone would get there before me!]

And yes, if your neighbourhood is fairly safe, and free of people like those who have been pestering Kain, your scope should be fine in a locked shed. There are many advantages of sheds!

With regards to EPs, you should make sure your choices offer long eye relief (LER) so you can observe with your glasses. I often remove my glasses to get right in there. This is fine too, because you can adjust focus to suit your eyesight. focal lengths - it depends on the focal length and ratio of your scope, but you should have this range to cover all eventualities:

- a low powered EP - 30mm upwards - for DSOs and scanning the milkyway

- a high powered one for planetary - it much depends on the scope what focal length to get, but this will likely be under 6mm

- two or three in between

- a barlow to double your collection!

A good idea would be to get them all the same make so they are parfocal (you don't have to alter focus interchanging them).

I'll leave someone else to decide make, but basically, you need to find a balance between price and performance - a £50 eyepiece will have 70% the performance of a £400 EP. As gordon says, plossls are great general EPs, but specifically, orthoscopics are better suited for planetary observation.

HTH

Andrew

[Macavity]

Uhm... With "middlin" experience: 3-4" fast (Achro/ED/APO) refractor, 127 MAK, BIG dob...

Scopes are somewhat personal choices, with good (less good) features. But, more seriously, I would (and hopefully have) aim(ed) to SHARE as many "accessories" as possible between my modest scopes. You tend to notice the cost of scopes, but forget the ever-mounting sums dispensed on the legion of odds and s*ds "needed" to support them!

Until you decide you LIKE freezing your buns: A base set of Baader Hyperions covers most conventional scope-needs, with their range of 3.5-21mm. They have a slightly bigger field [than Plossls] corresponding to most mortal eyes! Also, they fit 1.25" & 2" diagonals/focussers, use cheaper 1.25" filters (initially not needed), have longer eye-relief (until you decide to wear / not-wear glasses), have photo fittings etc. You then still need ONE (class) eyepiece at 30-35mm. Might be worthwhile investing serious cash on that? FINDERS should be shareable (buy more mounting brackets!). Don't skimp here...

Heck, EQ / Alt-Az Mounts might be (somewhat) shareable too - on lighter scopes. Much as I appreciate the genuine merits of "learning" (hair shirt optional), I might, retrospectively, consider the possibilities of the "GoTo" - Or at least compatibility.

[proflight2000]

Hi Mike, I was faced with the same issue a month or so ago. Previously I had gone down the route of an ETX 105 Computerised GOTO scope, and as much as I appreciate that go to scopes are very easy on the brain and do most of the foot work, I found out pretty quickly that it actually became a bore as I was in short not really learning anything. I feel that once someone is really proficient with the night sky that then is the time for a goto scope as the knowledge base has already set in.

I then looked at Apeture (as it seems is always the case..more light more light) this then got me asking the question, what could I get for a reasonable amount of cash. For me the answer lay in a newtonian on an equilatorial mount, I had never had an EQ mount so the learning kerb for me was a bonus, after Three weeks of using my Skywatcher 200 on an HEQ5 mount I am hooked. Luckily there are some very useful people in here who have put me right on a number of things that have made it all a lot easier.

The HEQ5 mount is only heavy I find if you carry it about with the weights on, with the weights off I am quite capable of carrying the mount outside even though I have to be a tad careful after having a heart attack. The mount is motorised and once aligned roughly even with the pole star will track an object for ages when switched on. The mount is very easy to understand and is as quiet as a mouse when moving.

The Skywatcher 200 is an 8" and to be honest is musch lighter than I ever expected. She is very simple to attach to the mount and moves around sweetly on the mount. The views through the scope compared to my old ETX are excellent, she even likes frost on her on cold nights. So in my humble opinion, if you have a budget of around £600, you could get a pretty good mount, a pretty good scope and a good lens to go with it. I got mine from Steve at FLO and of course he offers discount which is an added bonus. Hope this may help.

Cheers

[lunator]

Hi Mike

I have an Orion Optics 8" Newt and it is an excellent scope.

The OO range that are similar to the Skywtacher (which by the way are alos excellent scopes) are the Europas. The SPX are a whole level up from this.

I would echo the sentiments already made here that the mount is just as importnat as the scope. I have an EQ5 and this will work with the 8" scope but if I upgrade it will be a new scope & mount.

My peference would be to go for the HEQ5/EQ6 and the best OO scope you can get.

Cheers

Ian

[Brass n glass]

I would certainly back Orion Optics. If I ever find the money to buy another scope I shall get it from there. I've had an OMC140 for three years and it is a superb performer that has never needed collimation. Resolution and image sharpness come just behind my Televue refractor, but not far behind.

[GazOC]

As for storing kit in your shed, thats fine but you will want some sort of heating in there to keep the damp away. I use a 2kw heater set to "frost" and that keeps things above freezing when it's cold and keeps the damp away nicely.

Gordon,

Is there any heater you'd recommend that doesn't need a mains lead? I've got a 14" Dob, a 10" SCT and now 7" Mak in my shed but with no heating or power supply, The idea of 'keeping the damp away' is very appealing but with no power supply I'm not sure what to go for that won't burn the whole lot down while I'm at work?

Gaz

[The Warthog]

I have usually stored my scope in an unlocked shed (good neighbourhood, eh?) without moisture problems. I live between two of the Great Lakes, so it is very humid here. I cover the scope in a plastic bag that is open at the bottom. The advantage, of course, is that the scope is always at equilibrium temperature.

I don't think you will outgrow a 100 ED very quickly. A 100mm refractor is considered fairly big, and even in F/8 to 10 isn't as unwieldy as a 6".

I agree that Orion may be better, optically, than Skywatcher, from the gossip I've heard. Skywatcher is still a good product, though. IF you have an 8" scope with excellent optics, you may be hard-pressed to outgrow that, too. If you are going to drag your scope off to distant locales to get better skies, you may want to consider that the portability of a scope decreases logarithmically with size. A catadioptric is a good compromise between aperture and portability that you might want to consider, too.

If you have the opportunity to attend public viewing nights put on by a club, or to go to a star party and look through various scopes, you should do that before you buy one. In my experience, you will always find yourself second-guessing your first choice after you have been using it for a while. It took me six years to come to the conclusion that I needed a refractor as well as my Newt. Take your time.

[GordonCopestake]

As for storing kit in your shed, thats fine but you will want some sort of heating in there to keep the damp away. I use a 2kw heater set to "frost" and that keeps things above freezing when it's cold and keeps the damp away nicely.

Gordon,

Is there any heater you'd recommend that doesn't need a mains lead? I've got a 14" Dob, a 10" SCT and now 7" Mak in my shed but with no heating or power supply, The idea of 'keeping the damp away' is very appealing but with no power supply I'm not sure what to go for that won't burn the whole lot down while I'm at work?

Gaz

The problem with heaters is they do draw a lot of amps and this would kill any battery based power supply quite quickly. If you dont have electricity to your shed, the next best thing is insulation. Get polystyrene sheets for the walls and roof and plug all the gaps. That being said you DO need a good air flow so a vent near the top and one near the bottom will allow the damp air to escape when the shed warms up in the sun.

I also have one of these 80 watt strip heaters to replace my 2kw heater electric fire as it's much smaller and doesn't take up as much room, but i've not wired it in yet so can't comment on it's performance.

[geppetto]

There are some dehumidifiers around that use the silica gel stuff in them.

Stick one of those under the scope cover.

Idea is that when the gel turns pink, you bring the unit in and plug it into

the mains and the internal heater dries out the gel.

[lx200gps]

No problem keeping your equipment in a shed providing you take the precautions (damp and cold), already mentioned, to protect it. I use a 100 watt light bulb for this purpose. In the absence of electricity you might consider obtaining one of telegizmos new 365 telescope covers. These are designed to protect the telescope out in the open from the effects of heat, cold and damp, and would be ideal for use in a shed where the temperate ranges are quite extreme. If you do decide to obtain a couple of these covers you should consider having them made to measure as opposed to buying off the shelf. There’s no extra charge for this and you can then get exactly what you want depending on your set-up (s).

If you are worried about security you might want to give your home insurers a ring and ask if they will add the value of the contents of the shed to your policy. It won’t stop someone nicking your gear but at least you will have some peace of mind. I have used this method in the past with Direct Line and Liverpool Victoria, though there will be a lot of insurance companies unwilling to oblige.

I would put your imaging plans on hold for the moment as you will have enough to familiarise yourself with your new telescope/observing and astronomy in general. In that regard I would echo Warthog’s final paragraph. Learn to crawl first.

Regards

Stan

[MikeP]

Thank you very much for taking the time to reply and providing so much good advice.

I'm still not sure what to buy but I'll have a look at what is on display at Astrofest on Friday to see if the sheer size of some of the kit colours my thinking. Being able to touch and examine items closely is infinitely better than just looking at images!

As suggested, I've been in touch with my local society - Crawley AS and will be attending their next meeting. They have members who live locally, so it may be possible for me to have a look through one or two different scopes.

Mike

[Chubster]

nicking your thread slighty but youve got me thinking now

I keep my scope outside with a large cover over it held in place with a bungie....security isnt a issue but what about damp. I didnt consider this a problem with the eq5 after all scopes/mounts are designed to be used outside all night, but what about the HEQ5. Will long time storage outside effect the electronics ? I havent got a shed to put it in and it cant come indoors

Chubs