Eyepiece's

[Ian123]

I've had my telescope a while now but only been observing these last few week's sreiously. The EP's that came with my scope are stock unbranded one's and i feel i could be missing some detail in my observation's. Therefore i am looking to upgrade to some better optic's to enhance my hobby. Looking on the FLO website there is quite a choice but with a limited budget as i have i could use a little help in this department. A few of their product's seem interesting are the Eyepiece Sets which i think would suit me or would it be advantageous to just purchase 2 or 3 seperate one's at say £50-£60 each at better quality? just found this set from RVO http://www.rothervalleyoptics.co.uk/meade-4000-series-eyepiece-amp-filter-set_d3213.html

[Geno]

Generally the EP's supplied with scopes are not that good. If you got the 10mm and 25mm like I got supplied with my SW then the 25mm isn't that bad.

The Revelation kit gets good reviews on here and would be a good purchase until you decide to buy higher quality EP's.

I decided not to go for a kit and buy a new EP every couple of months. In theory after a year I would have exactly the EP's I want/need and any filters etc I buy when I have some spare cash.

It also depends on what you prefer to observe. I bought the 32mm Panaview as I like to track down DSO's and have a BGO 6mm coming for Xmas for planetary/double observing. There are also some good deals at the moment on Meade 5000 EP's of which I ordered the 16mm.

[russ]

It's a quite a tricky one to advise on. There's another thread running on the forum where the member asked for advice and everyone swayed him away from the Revelation set and he bought a single high quality Televue Nagler, which cost 40% more than the Revelation set. To his despair he couldn't see much gain from the 10mm eyepiece supplied. There is a large gain (much larger field, stars sharp edge to edge, better coatings, better build, sharper) but it may not be too apparent at first to the untrained eye (plus other factors maybe at work not allowing the Nagler to show its full potential). But it is a case of diminishing returns with eyepieces. The improvement between a £125 Skywatcher Nirvana 16mm and Televue Nagler 16mm T6 will be hard to spot.

The Skywatcher Panaview is a nice low power 2" eyepiece for the money. The 26mm will give you a huge true field of 2.43deg. It's no free lunch though. As you start to use it, you will notice the stars in the outer 30% of the field are not sharp when the stars in the centre are perfectly focused. This is one of the things you pay big bucks to erase. This is one of the areas that the Televue eyepieces truly show their metal. But i manage to live with it and for the most part the problem does not bother me. Probably because i know i can't even contemplate buying a 26mm Nagler or 27mm Panoptic.

For a workhorse, medium power eyepiece, the Meade 5000 16mm SWA for £67 is probably the best single eyepiece deal currently available bar none. It originally sold for a lot more and was competing with eyepieces much further up the market. There's certainly no widefield eyepiece available in the sub-£100 bracket to match it. So a great buy.

The Baader Genuine Ortho is reputed to be the best sub £100 planetary eyepiece but the Ortho design has a Marmite reputation. It's has very tight eye relief, incredibly so at the focal length you'll need for the 150 Explorer (i have the same spec scope). The field is narrow and you get a pin hole piece of glass to look into. I love em most of the time But many hate them regardless of how they perform. I really can't get on with them below 7mm, which is why i barlow my Ortho's to achieve the desired focal length.

Another alternative is the TMB Planetary clones for £36. Don't be put off by the low price, they truly do offer exceptional value for money. Ultimately they may not be as good as the Baader Ortho but they are a darn sight more comfortable to use and with a larger field of view (more of a benefit to someone without a driven mount). A very nice eyepiece to use for prolonged periods.

Those three together come to £178, £2 inside your £180 (3 eyepieces for £60 each).

[sixela]

Generally the EP's supplied with scopes are not that good. If you got the 10mm and 25mm like I got supplied with my SW then the 25mm isn't that bad.

I disagree. If you get a 25mm and a 10mm Plössl they're generally pretty OK, and if you feel you're "missing something" and feel compelled to buy something "better" it's not a rational decision.

the 10mm eyepiece does have fairly short eye relief and that's why some people don't like it, but there's usually nothing wrong with it.

The "Revelation kit" pretty much has eyepieces of the same quality, so it's not an upgrade, and you usually end up with duplicate focal lengths that you can't sell to anyone except someone with really bad Huygens, Ramsden or Kellners (but he's likely to have a 0.965" focuser unless he happens to have one of the newer 76mm Doblets). And you frequently end up with some focal lengths you don't use.

My advice is simply to observe, and to decide what you do not like about the eyepiece other than "the quality of the views", because chances are that other eyepieces of similar focal length are going to show only very subtle differences.

Perhaps you'll want some focal lengths you're missing. Perhaps you'll find a barlow useful. Perhaps you'll decide to buy a shorter eyepiece that's a bit more comfortable (like a 7mm TMB Planetary II). Perhaps you'd like a 17mm or 13mm eyepiece in between the 25mm and the 10mm and want to see if you like a wide field eyepiece better. Perhaps you'll want something that shows you more sky than your 25mm eyepiece, especially if you have a 2" focuser. And yes, perhaps you'll decide that you want better Plössls (like TeleVue Plössls) or orthos at the same focal length as your two first eyepieces.

Whatever you do, take your time. Don't rush it.

[Geno]

Generally the EP's supplied with scopes are not that good. If you got the 10mm and 25mm like I got supplied with my SW then the 25mm isn't that bad.

Don't get me wrong they are not really bad especially the 25mm and I have been using them happily for the last few months and they will be the last to be replaced in my EP case. That is why I am concentrating on purchasing EP's with different magnification to get the best range possible.

I agree the Meade 5K 16mm is a steal at the moment that is why I ordered one to see how it would perform in my scope, plus it falls nicely between the 25mm and 10mm. Don't know if they barlow well but it possible gives me another magnification.

[E621Keith]

I disagree. If you get a 25mm and a 10mm Plössl they're generally pretty OK, and if you feel you're "missing something" and feel compelled to buy something "better" it's not a rational decision.

That is if they were plossls. My old Synta refractor came with a 25mm Kellner, a 10mm and a 6.3mm Modified Achromatic. The 25mm Kellner was ok, the rest was un-usable as far as I was concerned. It was like looking for a pin hole while putting my eyeball on the eyepiece. I ended up using only the 25mm and a 2x barlow for a few years before I started uni and had spare cash to upgrade to plossl and x-cel.

MA eyepieces is only good for solar projection, because they have a higher melting point than other design.

[Steve]

Sixela, I respect your technical knowledge and always enjoy reading your posts but you are wide of the mark here

I disagree. If you get a 25mm and a 10mm Plössl they're generally pretty OK...

The 25mm is okay but the 10mm is weak.

the 10mm eyepiece does have fairly short eye relief and that's why some people don't like it, but there's usually nothing wrong with it.

The main criticism against the 10mm supplied with Skywatcher telescopes is that it suffers from internal reflection and ghosting.

The "Revelation kit" pretty much has eyepieces of the same quality, so it's not an upgrade...

Not true, the GSO Plossls in the Revelation eyepiece set are a noticeable improvement.

...and you usually end up with duplicate focal lengths that you can't sell

The 9mm essentially duplicates the 10mm but it is higher quality. There is (intentionally) no 25mm equivalent in the Revelation eyepiece set because most purchasers will already have a perfectly usable 25mm. I know the man who commissioned the Revelation eyepiece set, he did a fine job

As for not being able to sell them when upgrading, that simply isn't true. You would recover at least half of its purchase price.

The main benefit of a good eyepiece set is that it gets you off to a flying start and over time you will discover which focal lengths are most useful so if/when you decide to buy 'posh' eyepieces you will be better able to make the right choices.

Hope that helps.

[Bigwings]

Have you considered a good zoom. I upgraded from some quite good kit to a Baader Hyperion Mk111 8-24 zoom and it really good

You wont grow out of it either if you change your scope.

[russ]

Sixela, I respect your technical knowledge and always enjoy reading your posts but you are wide of the mark here

I was going to write something to the same effect. You saved me the trouble, thanks Steve

[step_hen]

Synta scopes seem to come supplied with a 25mm and a 10mm, BUT, sometimes they are of MA design and other times they seem to be decent quality Super Plossls? Does it depend on the value/ quality of the scope what type you get?

[callisto]

All in all, It depends on the individual.

Some eyepieces are suited best to one person and awful to another.

Always remember, Its you're eyes what it has to satisfy, nobody else's

Mark

[russ]

I think the Pro-Series come with a pair of Plossls, they used to come with the 9mm and 20mm Twist up series....not sure if that is still the case?

[sixela]

That is if they were plossls.

Nowadays, most are, especially if your scope comes with a 25/10 combo.

There are exceptions: Starblast Dobs ship with Kellners (not too good for f/4), 76mm Doblets ship with various stuff, some manufacturers include lousy 2" eyepieces with fast scopes and 2" focuser,...but then you usually do't end up with that ubiquitous 25mm and 10mm combo.

[Steve]

... sometimes they are of MA design and other times they seem to be decent quality Super Plossls? ...

MA (Modified Achromat) eyepieces make excellent dust-caps

[russ]

Nowadays, most are, especially if your scope comes with a 25/10 combo.

The Startravel 80 we bought last month came with the MA version of the eyepieces and the cheaper version of the 2x barlow. And someone else bought the Evostar 90 which came with the same accessories.

I think it's very much divided across the range. The low end Startravels, Evostars and Explorers come with the low spec accessories.

[sixela]

The 9mm essentially duplicates the 10mm but it is higher quality. There is (intentionally) no 25mm equivalent in the Revelation eyepiece set because most purchasers will already have a perfectly usable 25mm. I know the man who commissioned the Revelation eyepiece set, he did a fine job

Yes, I assumed wrong things there. I was assuming that set looked a lot like all the other sets I saw, but the Revelation set is perhaps a bit smarter.

As for not being able to sell them when upgrading, that simply isn't true. You would recover at least half of its purchase price.

I meant that if your set had a 10mm and 25mm it'd be hard to sell the ones you already had. But not having a 25mm in the set fixes half that problem.

The main benefit of a good eyepiece set is that it gets you off to a flying start and over time you will discover which focal lengths are most useful so if/when you decide to buy 'posh' eyepieces you will be better able to make the right choices.

Quite true, but going to star parties and borrowing eyepieces from others is even better .

I still think it's a bit colour filter rich, but it's indeed not a bad set and better laid out than others.

[sixela]

The Startravel 80 we bought last month came with the MA version of the eyepieces and the cheaper version of the 2x barlow.

Ah. Looks like I'm assuming too much again, then (I wonder if it's a UK thing?) Yes, if the eyepieces you get aren't even Plössls then an eyepiece set isn't such a bad idea. Beginners that I come in contact with usually deal with Teleskop Service or Robtics and I make a point of making sure they end up with something at least half decent, and both Rob and Wolfgang just tend to make a package price.

As for the original 10mm Plössl you sometimes get, adding some flocking paper already cures many of its ills, but you're right that not everyone thinks of that or has flocking paper at hand.

Looks like I assumed much to much here, so the devil is in the details, and the Revelation set may be a good buy in at least some cases.

But just as it's dangerous to assume the eyepieces are bad, it's also dangerous to assume they're bad (I wouldn't say the eyepieces are "generally" bad, which is what prompted my first reply). Which is why my advice is not to rush it. It's easy for us to spend other people's money, while it may not always be that necessary.

[LukeSkywatcher]

Sixela, I respect your technical knowledge and always enjoy reading your posts but you are wide of the mark here

The 25mm is okay but the 10mm is weak.

The main criticism against the 10mm supplied with Skywatcher telescopes is that it suffers from internal reflection and ghosting.

Not true, the GSO Plossls in the Revelation eyepiece set are a noticeable improvement.

The 9mm essentially duplicates the 10mm but it is higher quality. There is (intentionally) no 25mm equivalent in the Revelation eyepiece set because most purchasers will already have a perfectly usable 25mm. I know the man who commissioned the Revelation eyepiece set, he did a fine job

As for not being able to sell them when upgrading, that simply isn't true. You would recover at least half of its purchase price.

The main benefit of a good eyepiece set is that it gets you off to a flying start and over time you will discover which focal lengths are most useful so if/when you decide to buy 'posh' eyepieces you will be better able to make the right choices.

Hope that helps.

I totally agree with everything you said Steve.

[Ian123]

What can i say, very imformative and excellent imformation from all parties, even though most of it went straight over my head and my intention was not to start an interstellar EP war between you all !! My situation is this: After consideration between everyones opinion i have come to the conclusion that i would like to purchase 3 EP's of good quality which by the way i would like to order either tomorrow or saturday although i take on board what sixela advised about not rushing it. My EP's at the mo are the stock 12mm & 25mm (not plossl), so hence i would to get at least a 32mm and other suggestions would be advantageous to me as to what length to get. 9mm, 12mm, 16mm, 25mm? I would have around the £200 mark or may push a few quid more if it was truly worth it. Also i have never touched the mirror on my scope so a collimater would be a wise choice no? And also need a red light for outside instead of nippin indoors for light, those are not included in my EP budget. You have been a great help so far guy's and the info is greatly appreciated, ian.

[LukeSkywatcher]

The majority of people i have read here (myself included) seem to be very happy using a 9mm EP for observing planets.

Red LED head torches can be bought in most DIY stores for less then £20. These are great because they leave your hands free.

A 30-32mm EP is always a great idea. They are very useful for general scanning of the sky while hunting down objects.

[ronin]

I prefer to have individual eyepieces. However I have so many individual eyepieces that I could make up 3 or 4 sets.

Two problems come to mind. You probably do not know which eyepieces it is that you will use most often. I use a 6mm, 8mm, 15mm and 25mm most. So they tend to be the ones I get hold of. Guessing that those could be reasonable for yourself, but it is personal.

Second problem is which brand/make/type would you feel perform the best for you.

Several makes around from £20 to £75 a piece. People like TMB planetaries say £40-50 a piece, Modern Astronomy I think. Straight plossl's from ~£20 Antares but cannot recall who (Rother Valley perhaps) Antares WA's are about £60 from Rother Valley.

The big problem is finding out which focal lengths you will use and what make is best for you.

[sixela]

If they're not Plössls then the Revelation eyepiece set for 99GBP is indeed interesting, at least if you want to cover all magnifications.

If you just want one eyepiece on the low side and the ability to go to higher powers, now's the time to buy the last of the Meade 5000 SWAs, e.g. here. They used to be much more expensive but they're the last of the series so they go at bargain-basement prices, and it'll give you an idea of what a wide field eyepiece can do.

Add a 30GBP Tal barlow (available at different shops in the UK) and you'll double your eyepiece collection, and also make your non-Plössls behave a lot better (they'll give better images in a good barlow than in an f/5 scope, because the scope+barlow is an f/10 system).

That'll give you (with the barlow) 25-16-12.5-12-10-8-6-5, no bad at all as a range.

[sixela]

What can i say, very imformative and excellent imformation from all parties, even though most of it went straight over my head and my intention was not to start an interstellar EP war between you all !!

Neither was mine, but it turns out I made some assumptions that, at least in the UK market, aren't always true, so it's only fair that I was handed my head. That's not a "war" at all.

[LukeSkywatcher]

I prefer to have individual eyepieces. However I have so many individual eyepieces that I could make up 3 or 4 sets.

Two problems come to mind. You probably do not know which eyepieces it is that you will use most often. I use a 6mm, 8mm, 15mm and 25mm most. So they tend to be the ones I get hold of. Guessing that those could be reasonable for yourself, but it is personal.

Second problem is which brand/make/type would you feel perform the best for you.

Several makes around from £20 to £75 a piece. People like TMB planetaries say £40-50 a piece, Modern Astronomy I think. Straight plossl's from ~£20 Antares but cannot recall who (Rother Valley perhaps) Antares WA's are about £60 from Rother Valley.

The big problem is finding out which focal lengths you will use and what make is best for you.

This is exactly why i feel (as other do also) that an EP kit such as the Revelation is a good idea for people starting up in the hobby. The EP kits are cheap enough for what you get and the Plossl's you get in them are of pretty good quality. They allow you to try different EP sizes at a lowish cost.

If later on you decide to sell the kit and move on to more expensive brand EP's then you will easily get half the price of the EP kit back if not a little more.

I bought the Celestron EP kit a couple of yrs ago and still have it, although i am slowly replacing all of the EPs with better quality ones.

Why?

Because i was stupid enough to buy a Vixen 30mm NPL from a fellow SGL user a few months back and now nothing else will do for me. I have also just bought a 25mm Vixen EP from another user. Its an upgrade on the NPL model. I got it for a good price...........so i could not let it slip by me.

[LukeSkywatcher]

Why is it that usually when you buy a scope that comes with say a 10mm EP and a 25mm EP that the 25mm is really not that bad while the 10mm is usually pretty BAD?.

With my Hritage 130P i got a 10mm and i think a 25mm. The 25mm is pretty good but i hate the 10mm. The same goes for my Travelscope 70. I got a 10mm and 20mm EP and the 20mm ias ok while the 10mm is rubbish.