Photography

[crabbiT Scot]

Hello all. Go easy on me, I'm new to the site and to astronomy equipment in general

I have just ordered a telescope, the SKYWATCHER EXPLORER 130M. I am really interested in photographing through my telescope, but I have no idea where to start!!! I have no idea what people mean when they say different exposure times etc. Also, can anyone recommend a decent (cheap) camera and associated equipment to get me started? Thanks in advance!!

[pvaz]

I'm sorry to say but astro photography ain't cheap or easy. You can however try imaging planets and the moon simply by holding a camera near the eyepiece lens. Another option is to get a modified web cam which goes in the focuser, without an eyepiece, then shoot some videos and later break the videos into frames and then combine then to make a more refined final image. There is a software for this called registax.

For serious nebula/galaxy imaging you'll need a sturdy equatorial mount, a good refractor scope and a DSLR camera. That will put you over 1000£ easily, unless you can grab some 2nd hand then 700£ might do. Added to that you'll need extensive knowledge on astronomy, using astronomy equipment, photography and processing technics that usually take a long time to master.

[pvaz]

For planetary you may want to get something like this webcam:

Amazon.com: Celestron NexImage Solar System Imager: Camera & Photo: Reviews, Prices & more

PS-> It needs to be used together with a laptop to record the video for later processing.

[crabbiT Scot]

I'm sorry to say but astro photography ain't cheap or easy. You can however try imaging planets and the moon simply by holding a camera near the eyepiece lens. Another option is to get a modified web cam which goes in the focuser, without an eyepiece, then shoot some videos and later break the videos into frames and then combine then to make a more refined final image. There is a software for this called registax.

For serious nebula/galaxy imaging you'll need a sturdy equatorial mount, a good refractor scope and a DSLR camera. That will put you over 1000£ easily, unless you can grab some 2nd hand then 700£ might do. Added to that you'll need extensive knowledge on astronomy, using astronomy equipment, photography and processing technics that usually take a long time to master.

Thanks for the prompt replay mate. I really didn't expect you to say it cost that much lol

I'll maybe just try the camera next to the eyepiece, and save any other images to my brain

Thanks again!!

[ashworthacca]

Just to give you an idea of cost here is my a list of my kit (some second hand) and cost. My kit is probably about the minimum requirement for imaging dso's to a reasonable level.

Mount: HEQ5 Pro - £450 second hand

OTA: Orion ED80 - £225 second hand

Camera: Canon 1000d - £350 new

Camera Mod: Canon filter replacement £190

Guide Camera: Skywatcher Synguider - £229 new (not compulsory but guiding recomended)

Laptop: Dell Inspiron - £499 new ( a cheap netbook would be just as effective)

Leisure battery/charger - £95 new

Field flattener/reducer - £152 new

T Rings etc - £20 new (approx)

Canon power cable - £30 new

Misc other cables - £20

EQDir USB Adapter - 35

CLS CCD Filter - £120 new

May have missed something but hopefully it gives you an idea of the potential minimum outlay.

Regards

[JamesM]

They don't call it the 'Dark Side' for nothing and it can leave a certain black hole in your wallet too. However, if you want a greater understanding of the different levels that imaging can take, why not contact First Light Optics to get a copy of "Making Every Photon Count' by Steve Richards (also a member of the forum) It's a definitive look at how you can get into imaging, be it simply or advanced. It's not expensive and might help you with your long term astro plans.

Clear sky

James

[mijijim]

HI,

Start with a good book before you buy expensive camera equipment to go

with the expensive telescopic equipment. Look at Amazon for Michael A

Covington he has written very informatively on this complex area of

astronomy.

mijijim.

[crabbiT Scot]

Thanks everyone, now I realise it isn't just as easy as picking up a digital camera and away you go

I'll pick up that book and start from there. I'm just really excited now, and can't wait to get outside and do some viewing!!!

[Revs]

Hi and welcome

Be prepared for this hobby to take over your.... erm.... wallet and to spend many a night snarling at the clouds. I think I had 2 good nights with the scopes last month. But when it all comes together it's worth it. It's a very rewarding hobby and only gets better as you learn/see what's up there. Enjoy!

As for imaging.... don't rush and don't expect awesome results every time and you'll be a happy bunny. It's a long, steep learning curve, but it's interesting all the way.

[crabbiT Scot]

Yeah, patience is a virtue!! I'm just looking forward to getting started, and taking one step at a time! I can tell already I'm gonna love it!!

[Revs]

Yeah, patience is a virtue!! I'm just looking forward to getting started, and taking one step at a time! I can tell already I'm gonna love it!!

Yes you will

One of the best things about this hobby is the people. I'm yet to chat to any astronomer who isn't thoroughly pleasant and keen to help. It's like a huge global family

[angusb1]

Yes you will

One of the best things about this hobby is the people. I'm yet to chat to any astronomer who isn't thoroughly pleasant and keen to help. It's like a huge global family

I'll second that.

[crabbiT Scot]

Yes you will

One of the best things about this hobby is the people. I'm yet to chat to any astronomer who isn't thoroughly pleasant and keen to help. It's like a huge global family

I'm finding that already People seem very friendly

[Aussie]

Holding any camera up to the lens and taking a pic is the best way to get started. Then you have things that hold the camera in place for smother non-shaky shots.

DSO imaging requires a DSLR camera or CCD camera and a good mount, HEQ5 minimum for steadiness then it all starts to get extremely expensive

Planetary imaging can be done really well with a web cam and a laptop as pvaz said, And this is a lot cheaper too.

[gedmac]

link to same kit on amazon uk Celestron NexImage CCD Camera: Amazon.co.uk: Electronics good luck:p

[astronymonkey]

As a basic start you coould build a simple scotch mount and then attach a digital SLR .

Scotch Mount -- Double Arm

I built one of these when I was a kid and got some really successful driven photos of upto 10mins using and old film SLR with a broken shutter mechanism (you could wind it on but had to remove the lens cap to make the exposure before replacing it to end the shot.)

An SLA is needed as these have a "bulb" or "B" setting which means you decide when the shutter opens and closes meaning you arnt limited to preset times. Maybe a secondhand Nikon D40 would be a good chice as these are cheap and good quality but you will need a Nikon remote control (about 15 quid)as the Bulb setting only becomes active in remote control mode

For a scotch mount 2 pieces of wood , a hinge , a nut and bolt, and a bit of maths means its pretty easy to make something that tracks really well - at least for widefield where the low magnifcation is very forgiving to tracking errors. This will at least give you an intorduction to astrophotography before moving on , and spending more money to get close up Deep Sky Images.

Enjoy your scope, try things that may not work, but the main thing is to have fun in having a go .....and as others have said holding any camera up to the eyepiece and taking a snap of something bright like the moon can give good results as the image is so bright the exposure is only fractions of s second so it doesnt even need tracking.... just have a go.

Cheers

[Sparrow]

DOn't be put off by frightening lists of equipment needed - you can start simple and gradually build up your kit over a period of time. I started from scratch 3 years ago and now have a rig that I'm quite happy with for deep sky imaging. Yes I could always wish for more but there is always bigger and better out there. Take this to its logical conclusion and I could be at an observatory on a volcanoe in Hawaii.

The advice I was given (very good advice) was to make a good sturdy equatorial mount the first thing on my shopping list - every piece of equipment builds on that. Then gradually add bits of kit as you can, working with what you have in the meantime - it's all good learning and great fun seeing the results gradually improve as you improve technique and equipment.

I started out just taking photos of the moon with my bridge camera on a tripod. Its maximum exposure was 4 seconds so I tried it on the Orion Nebula - managed to get a rough image showi9ng a bit of nebulosity. Then got a scope and a Meade LPI (lunar planetary imager) - spent the next year imaging the moon and Saturn). Only then as budget allowed did I start to accumulate my current rig to start DSO work. Initially unguided imaging and have now moved on to guided imaging for longer exposures.

Good luck with the hobby

Regards

John

[ashworthacca]

My kit list wasn't meant to put the OP off, I listed everything to give an idea of the minimum equipment needed to be able to image dso's.

I didn't want the OP to think that putting a camera up to his eyepiece would enable him to achieve Hubble like images. That would only leave him disappointed.

Build up slow, agree the first thing to buy would be "Making Every Photo Count". This is my bible and is primarily what I used when making my buying decisions.

Good luck, read the book if you can and build up slowly....also keep asking questions.

Regards

[dph1nm]

If I were to be critical, I would say there was a tendency on this forum (and others) to over-egg the difficulty/expense of astrophotography. You don't have to spend lots of money, any more than you have to have a top of the range Jag to drive up and down the motorways of Britain.

You can image DSOs through a small telescope on a (tracking) alt-az mount with a cheap digital camera. Sure, they probably won't be as good as someone with 10k's worth of top-end kit, but they will still make your non-astronomer friends go 'Wow'.

NigelM

[ashworthacca]

If I were to be critical, I would say there was a tendency on this forum (and others) to over-egg the difficulty/expense of astrophotography. You don't have to spend lots of money, any more than you have to have a top of the range Jag to drive up and down the motorways of Britain.

You can image DSOs through a small telescope on a (tracking) alt-az mount with a cheap digital camera. Sure, they probably won't be as good as someone with 10k's worth of top-end kit, but they will still make your non-astronomer friends go 'Wow'.

NigelM

I do disagree slightly. My kit is, IMO, the minimum required to image dso's to a reasonable standard. A alt-az mount will restrict you to below 30 second exposures and a large number of dso's need subs much longer than this to achieve a final image that won't disappoint.

You don't need to spend 10k but making the OP think that spending a couple of hundred quid will give him the equipment needed I think would be very misleading and lead to major disappointment.

Just my 2 cents:D

[CowsonConcrete]

I agree, to get truly stunning shots you do need top priced equipment. However I use my spotting scope, adapter to hold my 5mp compact camera and my pictures end up like this;

Not stunning, (not on here anyway!) but I'm happy with the result none the less.

Know the limitations of your kit and improve and expand when you you have the funds / experience.

[GJBC]

a good starter camera could be a second hand canon 350D and if you can get it modded even better (loads of threads on here) that would be a start.

or a really basic start get a web cam and try some planetary lunar images first just to get used to software exposure times etc. talk to the guys at FLO or one of the other main stream astronomy outlets ask what they have available.

the other thing i would always suggest is to get out with someone who does this. talk to you local society Aberdeen in your case i believe they seem to have a vibrant imaging section by the look of the gallery on their web site. you will be surprised how much you will pick up at observing sessions and meetings. and if your stuck someone local will then be available to ask if needed.

Dont run walk first read up ask questions and make the correct choices. because as you have seen above it can get expensive if you let it take i one season at a time

summer.season one... learn kit set up ballance etc do it in the dark blindfolded etc

Autumn. season two... learn camera and techniques software exposures

winter . season three... go for it try at every opportunity do not get disheartened

Spring. season four... review progress make additions as needed

then start all over again it will take a few years to get the perfect set up

[jgs001]

The first purchase you should make is

Books - Making Every Photon Count - Steve Richards

Then a lot will depend on what it is you want to photograph. If you're looking for deep sky, you are going to have to invest in a decent camera (you can do stuff with bridge and point and shoot cameras, I did in the first instance, but an SLR is I think the minimum). From there, you can actually get some nice widefield images done using only a camera tripod. The technique is limited and you'll never manage close up results, but it works.

http://stargazerslounge.com/imaging-tips-tricks-techniques/73737-basic-widefield-camera-tripod.html

I started out with £100 worth of cheap scope and AltAz mount (although you could just use a camera and lens, which will help reduce weight and improve balance but allow for longer exposures as it's tracked).

Here's a couple of examples with an unmodded SLR, an ST80 and a NexStar SLT

This technique is limited in exposure time, so gets frustrating... Then you can advance onto the EQ mount and far more expense.

Each step will provide good learning experiences and help with the next one.

[ashworthacca]

John, cracking images with very modest equipment....proves what can be done for little outlay. However, I think you summed it up when you said that it's very frustrating working with not so suitable equipment. That can either put off a beginner or just lead to further expense in upgrading.

I'm still very much a beginner but by getting great advice from this forum (including your good self more than a few times:D) and reading "Making Every Photon Count" made me realise that getting the right equipment first time not only avoided the frustration of working with inadequate equipment but also saved money by buying right first time.

[ashworthacca]

Saying that, I suppose "Expensive" is all relative at the end of the day.