Looking for advice on my first scope

[peteuplink]

Hi all. I know you probably get 100's of "need help with new scope" posts on here, but I really don't know where to start.

Quite soon I should have approx £160.00 to spend on a telescope and I was looking to getting a Skywatcher Explorer-130P. I basically have no idea what I'm looking at, so I was wondering if this is a good choice?

[ollypenrice]

I think the answer is 'yes!' The 130P is well regarded on here. You do need to read up on collimation, though, and budget for one of the various devices to make this simple.

Olly

[peteuplink]

How much would I need to spend on a collimation device?

[JamesM]

This is an entry level scope that has a 5" mirror. Interestingly, I have seen variations of this scope placed on different mounts so I'm not sure what your scope will be placed on but given your budget, I guess it is going to be on a straight forward equatorial mount with no GOTO to help you find stuff or any motors to help you keep track of what you've found.

My personal experience hasn't been great with this size of scope if I'm being honest and it is really to do with the mount. I had a Meade with a smaller 4" mirror and although I could still see things such as Saturn, Orions belt, trying to get a good focus on a tube that was effectively bouncing all over the place was a nightmare. Remember that at higher magnifications, the object will move quickly across the eyepiece so by the time you've found it, waited for the scope/image to stop bobbing around enough for you to try and get a better focus, the object has almost moved out of sight, which will mean you have to move the scope, wait for it to stop bobbing around etc......you get the picture. At least with a motor drive, the object will stay in one place to allow you to focus and absorb the view.

In conclusion, the mirror size is small but it will still show you things, but its the flimsy mount without any tracking that I have found to be the problem. I would advise to save a little more money and then reconsider your options. A dobsonian would give you a bigger mirror to allow you to see and resolve more objects but you will have to keep nudging this scope to keep objects in the eyepiece or buy the same size newtonian you were originally thinking of but this time with a motor to help you track.

Hope that is of some help.

James

[peteuplink]

Well the problem I have in terms of budget is I'm an actor, and the £160.00 is the most I've got left out of my last wage, and being an actor without a steady role, it's impossible to say when the next one will come. I may get lucky in panto, but then again I may not. So my plan was to buy a scope now while I can afford one (before a bill or something else crops up to take some of the £160.00 away) and then add to it later.

[peteuplink]

I just read my last post and it looked like I was disregarding the advice given to me. Sorry about that. I wasn't being ignorant, it's just that because of my situation, I'd really rather buy a scope now before something comes along to take the money away. In my present situation the money for a scope might not come around again for quite a while.

I've been scouting out some info on the scope(s) I'm looking at. I just copy/pasted it all from the shops website:

EXPLORER-130 130mm (5.1") f/900 Newtonian Reflector

Magnifications (with optics supplied): x36, x72, x90, x180

Highest Practical Power (Potential): x260

Diameter of Primary Mirror: 130mm

Telescope Focal Lengh: 900mm (f/6.92)

Eyepieces Supplied (1.25"): 10mm & 25mm

x2 Barlow Lens

Red Dot Finder

EQ2 Equatorial Mount

Aluminium Tripod with Accessory Tray

30% more Light Gathering than 114mm

RRP £149.00 OUR PRICE £139.00

Price: £139.00

Or this:

EXPLORER-130P 130mm (5.1") f/650 Parabolic Newtonian Reflector Telescope

The EXPLORER-130P models feature premium-quality Parabolic Primary Mirrors, normally found in larger more expensive telescopes, to eliminate spherical aberrations, producing even sharper, higher-contrast images which are full of detail. A parabolic or more accurately a "paraboloidal" mirror, is ground to a shape which brings all incoming light rays to a perfect focus, on axis. In addition they feature 0.5mm Ultra-Thin secondary mirror supports, to reduce diffraction spikes and light loss.

Magnifications (with optics supplied): x26, x65

Highest Practical Power (Potential): x260

Diameter of Primary Mirror: 130mm

Telescope Focal Length: 650mm (f/5)

Eyepieces Supplied (1.25"): 10mm & 25mm

Parabolic Primary Mirror

0.5mm Ultra-Thin Secondary Mirror Supports

Red Dot Finder

EQ2 Equatorial Mount

Aluminium Tripod with Accessory Tray

30% more Light Gathering than 114mm

Price: £159.00

And there's also a motorised one for the same price:

EXPLORER-130M 130mm (5.1") f/900 MOTORISED Newtonian Reflector Telescope

Magnifications (with optics supplied): x36, x72, x90, x180

Highest Practical Power (Potential): x260

Diameter of Primary Mirror: 130mm

Telescope Focal Length: 900mm (f/6.92)

Eyepieces Supplied (1.25"): 10mm & 25mm

x2 Barlow Lens

Red Dot Finder

EQ2 Equatorial Mount

R.A. Motor Drive (D.C.) with Multi-Speed Handset

Aluminium Tripod with Accessory Tray

30% more Light Gathering than 114mm

More...

Price: £159.00

Which would you say is the best buy?

[Skybrowser]

If you're new to this, don't get too worried about terms like collimation. After a while it's very easy indeed and it makes a big difference to oyur viewing enjoyment. Take your time when you get the new scope. Learn about how to find stuff and start with the easy, obvious targets. You will love that scope.

[brantuk]

Make sure you get one with a parabolic mirror - they focus the light better (eg 130P). The M usually designates a motor which drives the right ascension - very useful as it will track objects and you won't have to manually drive the tube.

Colimation can be cheap - you can do it with a small hole drilled through the center of a focus tube cap - followed by a star test.

Give the guys at FLO a ring - they're very friendly and will give you good buying advice - and generally price match where possible. Mention that you're an SGL member when ordering.

Hope that helps

[peteuplink]

I was planning on getting either the 130P or the 130M. They both cost the same from this particular shop. Everyone I've spoke to on forums says the Explorer is a decent scope to start off with.

As for collimation. I read in the Sky at Night beginners guide that I can make a collimation tool by drilling a hole in the bottom of a photographic film container, putting this where the eyepiece would be, then placing a small paper hole reinforcing hoop in the middle of the primary mirror and lining up the centre of the hole in the container with the centre of the paper hoop. Is that correct?

[pvaz]

Yeah that's about it.

Most reflectors already have a hoop in the primary center so you can probably skip that part.

[callisto]

Don't want to throw a spanner in the works, but have you considered a Dob? for youre budget, maybe some thing like this:Dobsonians - Skywatcher Skyliner 150P Dobsonian

Mark

[JamesM]

It is a difficult call to make given that you are on a tight budget where decisions are very much more acute than they would normally be.

I can't comment on the virtues of whether a parabolic mirror is better than the a standard mirror but as mentioned in my earlier response, the difficulties of focusing etc would mean I would be more inclined to go for the set up with the RA motor, as it will make your viewing experience a lot easier and therefore at that price more satisfying. You would appear to get more eyepieces with the non parabolic set up too.

Clear skies

James

James

[Quatermass]

The 130p model is the one that I first bought a few months ago and I thought it was a great telescope for the price. If your money is tight this telescope would be a great bit of kit and should provide you with some great nights viewing.

The one thing that perplexed me most of all when I had this telescope however was just what am I going to see with it. Well let me throw some light on that question to help you out if I can. When you get this telescope if Jupiter is up in the sky and you point your shiny new 130 at it what will you see? I will tell you. You will see Jupiter and also its 4 moons, Jupiter will be a bright image and it will be about this wide in your eye piece ----- the moon will be about this width - to give you some idea of the scale using the 25mm wide angle lens supplyed with the telescope. Using a x2 barlow will improve things further. You will be able to see and make out the gas bands on the planet and just about see the red spot if you catch it right. You will also be able to see the famous ring nebula in the constelation of Lyra but it will be like a small puff of smoke. Galaxys will appear as gray ghosty mists or blobs depending on how dark your skys are. So having told you that you might be thinking oh well mybe a bigger scope would be better mybe I would see even more detail. The answer to that one is by why of comparing what I did next. I took my 130p back to the shop and went up to the next level with the sky watcher 200p telescope. From a 5.1 inch primary mirror to an 8inch. The cost was twice as much as the 130p. So what did I think about the 130p after moving on to the bigger 200p? Well looking through this telescope at the same object Jupiter and the ring nebula was indeed much better they were if you like improved twice as much. More detail can be seen and they are larger in the eye piece but and this is the big but if I had to have my old 130p back I would still be happy with it. So I say go for it if money is tight or better still save up and go for the 200p. The choice is yours but dont worry about collmintation too much that can all come later on when you have your scope. Also the red dot finder is easy to use I found the new finder on my 2oop model a pain to start off with but I am used to it now. The 130p is a great telescope you wont be disappointed but save up and get the 200p if you can wait. Hope that helps. If you want to see the 200p from its arrival being unboxed and set up I have more stuff about it on my blog with pictures and a run down of its arrival and set up.

[peteuplink]

That Dobsonian looks good. They have the same one at the shop I'll be going to. I think I'm going to take Quatermass's advice and stick with the 130P for now, though.

If my last acting venture had worked out as I planned (it was a TV series that unfortunately fell through meaning I only ended up getting paid for 2 performances that weren't aired), then I'd be in a more comfortable position and able to get a scope that's a bit more expensive, bigger, motorised, GOTO and all the bells and whistles. As it stands, most of the money I earned from the show has now been allocated for spending on household bills, food, other essentials and Christmas presents (can't forget those), leaving me with a small amount (£160 maybe £180 if I skimp a bit) to spend on a telescope. (or at least I should have the money on Wednesday once everything's sorted out).

[sxinias]

I really think that you ought to reconsider the 130P.

Why?

It is on an equatorial mount that will shake and vibrate .... no fun at all. Using a Newtonian telescope on an equatorial mount is not the most fun thing to do. The eyepiece will often get into some very weird positions forcing you to get down on hands and knees to view. In addition, the movement of an equatorial mount is not intuitive. Before you can even use your telescope you will need to learn how to move an equatorial mount around the sky .. you just can not simply point the telescope where every you want. The previous poster about vibration was not dreaming that up and wishfull thinking will not make it go away.

A Dobson mounted telescope will eliminate all of the above stress and will provide a very sturdy platform for viewing. SkyWatcher has an excellent little jewel well withing your price bracket that is technically and optically as good or better than the scopes you are considering. This is the SkyWatcher Heritage 130P which goes for about 130 pounds. With it you will be able to see far more than with the scope you are considering ... the optics are about the same but the more sturdy mount will make a world of difference.

[The Warthog]

ake the 130P with the motor, if that is definitely the scope you want. If you can wait awhile and come up with £20 more, the SkyWatcher 6" Dob is an excellent choice. A very advanced astronomer I know used one for years, and nothing else, until he finally bought a 12" scope. I had some very nice views of Jupiter through that 6" scope. At f/8, it is more forgiving of lower quality eps than an f/5 scope.

Be that as it may, you won't be disappointed with the 130 either. I used a scope on a jiggly mount for a few years, and as long as you waited for the jiggle to stop, you could get some very nice views indeed. You could get it, then wait for another cheque, and get a more stable tripod and mount, which I eventually did with my first scope.

[peteuplink]

Sorry to keep bumping this thread, but this is getting more confusing all the time

On the Sky at Night forums I have posters who are telling me that I'd be better getting a refractor with an altaz mount.

So I've got a choice of four now between

Sky Watcher Explorer 130P or 130M Newtonian Reflector (EQ2 mount)

Sky Watcher Evostar 90 Refractor (AZ3 Deluxe Alt-Azimuth mount)

Sky Watcher Skyliner 150 Dobsonian (Wooden Alt-Azimuth Mount with Accessory Tray)

I was seriously considering the 130M, but with all this other advice the choice is less clear now than it was originally.

Out of the three which do you all think would be most ideal for someone in my position?

[LukeSkywatcher]

Your choice really depends on whether you want the scope purely for observing or if you want to get into astro photography at some stage (we all end up wanting to take astro images).

Dobs are NOT suited for photography because they are manual scopes.

Out of all your above choices, i would suggest the Sky Watcher Explorer 130P on the EQ2 mount to start with. Its is a VERY popular choice for a first scope and it will allow you to do some imaging if thats what you want to do. The optics (mirrors) on the 130P are really pretty damn good (i think most will agree). The basic concept of tha parabolic mirror (P) is that the mirror is curved instead of flat which allows more light to be gathered and directed towards the eyepiece.

Forget a refractor. They are more expensive then reflectors and the apeture (light gathering ability) is less then on the reflectors. You get a lot more for your money when you buy a reflector.

The SW130P really is the best for you if you plan at any stage to take images of the night sky. If NOT....................then the SW 150 Dob is your best bet.

[peteuplink]

Hi, Luke. I'm swinging more towards the 130P now... But...

What about the Skyhawk 1145P? It's smaller than the 130P, I know, but cheaper - should be £122, but my local shop is selling them for £119. The lower price suits me as it'll free up some money for other things, and I just read an excellent review from Sky at Night magazine where it was a group test winner and awarded a best buy.

I also read on First Light Optics site that "The acclaimed Skyhawk 1145P is probably the UK's most popular starter telescope".

Worth a look?

[pvaz]

My personal opinion given your budget is this scope:

Dobsonians - Skywatcher Heritage 130p Flextube

It's the same as the 130p, it comes on a dobson mount (it's a type of alt-az mount) and the tube can be compressed down making it ultra portable. When you eventually move to a bigger one you'll want to keep it as a grab-and-go setup (my grab-and-go/travel setup are some large binos on a monopod that don't show as much as this scope). A 130mm scope gathers 30% more light then a 114mm one, that will be noticeable so you'd be much better spending those extra 10£.

Regarding photography you do need an equatorial mount, but to get anything that will make you proud, you'd have to spend at least 1000£ and read a few books, dedicate many hours studying/experimenting and be ready to shoot through the night. If you think I'm exaggerating take a look at this thread:

http://stargazerslounge.com/beginners-help-advice/117607-cant.html

Astronomy is a hobby that already haves a lot to learn, if you go and add astro-imaging (to call it photography is an understatement) right on day one, or even year one, then you'll likely get very frustrated and probably abandon the hobby all together.

[perrin6]

Peteuplink,

Basically I suppose your choice is:-

1) One with an equatorial mount 130P

2) One with low maintenance. 90mm refractor

3) One with good light-grasp. 150 Dob

So which is your highest priority:-

1) One that follows objects more easily

2) One that is v. low maintenance

3) One that shows you a lot of 'stuff'

If it were me looking back to when I was in your position I would get the skyliner 150 (6 inch). Easy to set up, sturdy, good sized mirror for first scope ie. will show you a lot.

Have fun choosing and then wondering later 'mmm - I wonder if I should have gotten a different one' as I do whenever I buy something !

Just do it & get out there !

Alan

[ollypenrice]

The small refractor would be very limited in what if would show you. I love refractors but Paul is right, they are the most expensive option.

I personally find wiggly mounts a pain and would go for the intuitive and stable Dob. You will be looking at objects the moment you get outside.

When on a budget remember what matters most - optics. The whole point of the Dob is to put the money there, and to have a mount which tries to do less but does what it does much, much better.

Olly

[peteuplink]

Hi all. Thanks for the advice and input.

I'm thinking about the Dobsonian 150P but I do most of my stargazing out in my back yard. It's a small yard (about 12ft x 14 ft) and I have quite high walls here (6ft 8in) and the Dobsonian looks like it'll struggle seeing over them if I try to look at something low in the sky (I'm guessing the Dobsonian sits on the floor so would struggle seeing over a tall wall. I really don't know much about them:confused:) The 130P and 1145P are on tripods and so they are higher off the ground and more at where my eye level is when sitting on my camping stool. (meaning they can see over the wall)

The Dobsonian is the one I'll go for if it can be used on a table or something to raise it higher for objects that the wall may block if it's on the floor.

How tall is the Dob 150p on it's mount? How high off the ground is the pivot?

[brantuk]

Hi Pete - just to clarify for you cos I fear it's getting confusing for you, the 130P is a newtonian - this applies to the tube only. It can be mounted either on an equatorial or an alt/az mount. These are the two basic types of mount.

The dobsonian is an alt/az mount - it's just a rocker box that swivels and sits on the floor - you can get alt/az mounts on a tripod too.

Equatorial mounts mostly sit on a tripod. They give right ascension and declination planes to work in. Equatorial mounts follow the movement of the stars when polar aligned. Whereas the alt/az just swivels and rocks.

With a 130P tube I would recommend the Equatorial mount - the benefit is that you only have to track in one plane (Right Ascension). It's a little more fussy to set up than alt/az but the difference is insignificant and a doddle once you've done it a few times.

The bigest reason I say this is because, the 130P is a small aperture and objects drift accross rapidly - you'll be constantly nudging an alt/az up/down and left/right. With an equatorial you only have to slowly tweak one knob to track manually - with an RA motor you won't even have to do that.

Also - a motorised eq mount will settle in seconds - any vibrations will be gone and you'll see a steady image as it tracks - I was using one at the weekend and can guarantee that

Hope that helps you.

[The Warthog]

Hi all. Thanks for the advice and input.

I'm thinking about the Dobsonian 150P but I do most of my stargazing out in my back yard. It's a small yard (about 12ft x 14 ft) and I have quite high walls here (6ft 8in) and the Dobsonian looks like it'll struggle seeing over them if I try to look at something low in the sky (I'm guessing the Dobsonian sits on the floor so would struggle seeing over a tall wall. I really don't know much about them:confused:) The 130P and 1145P are on tripods and so they are higher off the ground and more at where my eye level is when sitting on my camping stool. (meaning they can see over the wall)

The Dobsonian is the one I'll go for if it can be used on a table or something to raise it higher for objects that the wall may block if it's on the floor.

How tall is the Dob 150p on it's mount? How high off the ground is the pivot?

You can use this scope comfortably on a small table or stool about 12" - 20" high. Those walls around your garden may help cut down stray light from the street or your neighbours. You should find you have a very usable sky from your garden. You won't be able to see right down to the horizon unless you are in an exceptionally dark town.