Orion Optics UK Newts / Dobs

[johninderby]

I see from the Orion Optics Yahoo group that OO will be dropping the basic versions of their Newts / Dobs by the end of the year and the ranges will now start with what was the old deluxe but with the 9 point miror cell and fan included. They also mention that other less popular lines will be dropped. I suppose it's only natural that a company that's experiencing such high demand for it's new higher end scopes (ODK,AG, CT etc.), but that has a finite manufacturing capability, would choose to concentrate on it's more profitable lines.

Actually I think it's a good idea to drop the basic scopes. Why bother producing lower end scopes that would be competing with cheaper mass produced Chinese imports.

John

[russ]

Does indeed sound like a good move. I'm very pleased with the Deluxe newt i have, wouldn't have wanted or considered the base model. As you say, the basic newt market is well catered for by the Chinese and fully saturated.

[John]

Yes, that makes sense. The optics in my 10" F/4.8 Europa Deluxe are a great but, mechanically it's no better, and a touch less good in places, than the Skywatcher equivilent.

[nitram100]

To be honest I don't think OO can compete with Skywatcher in the lower end of the market, although I love my 00 10" F4.8 and is optically better than a skywatcher.

[Trevor-Austin]

My 6" Europa seems as good as my lx90 was, very impressed

[Moonshane]

I agree completely. they are a bespoke maker and not a mass producer. this way they can concentrate on what they do best - high quality optics to the customers' specifications. you cannot blame them at all and this is a sound move as they will improve their turnaround times and ensure that they meet deadlines and perhaps even start to exceed customer expectations!

[ahlberto]

Thats good news!!!

[Adrian Condon]

Hi,

Glad to hear that OO are going to concentrate at the higher end of the the market where they can offer good tested optics at a reasonable cost.

I am the proud owner of a 10" f6.3 deluxe Dob from OO and it is superb with a 1/10 wave tested mirror.

It is an excellent scope and it travels well. It has recently travelled over a thousand miles by car on motorways and farm tracks in the Lake District and only needed a tiny collimation adjustment.

A mate of mine thinks his chinese 10" f4.8 1/4 wave untested scope is better because it is cheaper, but to be honest he is blind in one eye and just cannot see with the other.

His opinion is based on value... the quality OO costs more so the cheaper one is better value!!

Anyway, I will not be changing my scope for a cheaper import!

Cheers

Adrian

[brianb]

So long as the good stuff is actually available ... You get what you pay for; pay peanuts & you'll get monkey poo

[John]

So long as the good stuff is actually available ... You get what you pay for; pay peanuts & you'll get monkey poo

Do you reckon that the Skywatcher newtonians and the like are just not worth bothering with then Brian ?.

I realise that the SPX and upward Orion Optics scopes are excellent but they are expensive, and possibly too expensive, for many.

[brianb]

Do you reckon that the Skywatcher newtonians and the like are just not worth bothering with

Note the smiley.

The cheaper scopes can be good value for money but the premium ones do outperform them by a considerable margin in terms of resolving power and contrast, when properly set up, in good conditions. You can restore the missing performance by going up a size or two in the "budget" scope range but then you have a bigger, heavier lump to transport & mount.

As with most things, when you get towards the top end you pay increasingly large amounts of money for increasingly small performance improvements.

The Skywatcher scopes are actually rather good compared with the scopes which represented the typical amateur market 40 years ago, in all respects other than the mount - they do tend to be sold with inadequate mounts, presumably to help keep cost & weight down, especially at the budget end of the market. Note that mid & upper range scopes are rarely sold with a mount!

[johninderby]

Note the smiley.

The cheaper scopes can be good value for money but the premium ones do outperform them by a considerable margin in terms of resolving power and contrast, when properly set up, in good conditions. You can restore the missing performance by going up a size or two in the "budget" scope range but then you have a bigger, heavier lump to transport & mount.

The SkyWatcher dobs / newts are definitely great value for money, but they also have their shortcomings, and as Brian says it's in the mounts where the biggest compromises are made.

I had a 16" Lightbridge but it was big and cumbersome, and while the optics were OK, they suffered in comparison to premium optics. I sold the LB and replaced it with an OO 14" dob with OOs best optics and added a StellarCAT GOTO system. The OO matches the LB on DSOs despite the smaller aperture, but on Lunar / planetary etc. it's in a whole different league. The 14" OO is also nearly as light as a 12" Skywatcher dob to move about. For me it's the ideal solution, although I have to admit it's a more expensive solution.

BTW I'm not trying to insult 16" LB owners as the scope is really good value at the average second hand price, and a lot of owners have gotten a lot of enjoyment out of using them. It's just that there are alternatives if you willing to or can afford to spend more.

John

[pvaz]

My only problem with OO is the lack of details/extras. The new SW and Orion USA big dobs seam to offer much more in the package.

Would be nice if you could buy the base of a SW scope, without mirrors, deliver it to OO and have them fit some quality optics on it.

[brianb]

Would be nice if you could buy the base of a SW scope, without mirrors, deliver it to OO and have them fit some quality optics on it.

Well, OO will sell you a set of 1/10 wave PV mirrors in a range of popular sizes ....

[pvaz]

Well, OO will sell you a set of 1/10 wave PV mirrors in a range of popular sizes ....

Yeah I know. What I meant is that will cost about as much as 2 scopes and I would end up with the mirrors from the SW stuck somewhere. The problem here is SW doesn't sell the tube and base without optics at a lower price.

[John]

Note the smiley.

The cheaper scopes can be good value for money but the premium ones do outperform them by a considerable margin in terms of resolving power and contrast, when properly set up, in good conditions. You can restore the missing performance by going up a size or two in the "budget" scope range but then you have a bigger, heavier lump to transport & mount.

As with most things, when you get towards the top end you pay increasingly large amounts of money for increasingly small performance improvements.

The Skywatcher scopes are actually rather good compared with the scopes which represented the typical amateur market 40 years ago, in all respects other than the mount - they do tend to be sold with inadequate mounts, presumably to help keep cost & weight down, especially at the budget end of the market. Note that mid & upper range scopes are rarely sold with a mount!

Thanks Brian

I did notice the smiley but it's interesting to have a few more thoughts on this.

I moved from a 12" Meade Lightbridge "down" to a 10" F/4.8 Orion Optics with the 1/6 PV wave mirrors and Hilux coatings (which are I guess entry level by OO's standards) and I've not really noticed the drop in aperture - apart from the scope being much more portable that is !.

I've put this down the Hilux coatings more than the optical quality - they do seem to make a difference with light throughput I feel.

[JamesM]

Two of my observing chums have 12" Dobs, one from Skywatcher (? PV) and the other (1/8PV) from Orion Optics. As an unscientific experiment, we decided to aim both scopes at the Double Cluster and using the same eyepiece compared the performance. I must say the Hilux coating on the OO scope for me was definitely noticeable, much better contrast and the stars certainly appeared 'cleaner'.

This simplistic experiment for me strikes at the centre of this comparison, because from a newbie's point of view, with OO you can specify what mirror you want (at a cost) whereas with Skywatcher, you get what you're given. Although Skywatcher's mirrors might well be satisfactory or even good, comments from observers who say, "Oh... looks like you've got a good one there", is a little unsettling. Why doesn't skywatcher every specify the mirror's rating as it would help newcomers like me make an informed choice?

James

[Adrian Condon]

Interesting thread this......

Whilst the OO Newts are very good, it does not mean that other newts are rubbish.

Twice the price does not mean you get twice the performance.

The differences are small but noticeable, the special coatings do play an important role, it also depends on the quality of the eyepieces used plus the "seeing" conditions. Unfortunately you cannot purchase the "seeing" conditions, unless you up sticks and camp out in parts of Scotland on a cold clear winter's night.

The best scope as they say is the one used most often.

I live in a beautifully light polluted area near Watford, (orange is the favourite colour of the night sky) with maybe a few dozen stars visible on a moonless night by the naked eye.

Using my OO scope increases the number dramatically, but going to an uninhabited area of Scotland miles from the nearest civilisation and the number of naked eye stars is amazing.

It is horses for courses!

Cheers

Adrian

[johninderby]

Interesting thread this......

Whilst the OO Newts are very good, it does not mean that other newts are rubbish.

An important point to remember.

The Chinese dobs/newts are very good indeed, it's just that a hand built scope with premium optics is even better.

John

[Moonshane]

great thread and some excellent comments. I have the dobs listed below but have been toying in my mind with the idea of a 16" lightbridge to replace the 12". I am not so sure now, although I was never going to rush into anything.

here's a question. I 'think' the optics in my 12" scope are 1/6PV with HILUX. on the basis of the above comments it seems I am better sticking with what I have. if I got the optics refigured to 1/10PV and recoated (not via OO and therefore not HILUX) then this would cost £400. I suppose the refigure alone might cost £250. I could then get HILUX coated for about £200 including the secondary.

would this be worth it?

I think I am now sold on getting an OO UK 16" dob eventually (probably new and will cost about £2500 so a long save up ahead of me!) but will get a f5 mirror and arrange a cut tube to enable a truss dob to be formed from the two 'bits'.