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Stellarium for only £3 be quick!

OptiGone

By OptiGone
in The Astro Lounge

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OptiGone

OptiGone

Posted
Posted

I'm always reporting listings like this to eBay and they do seems to disappear for a few days... Only then to be relisted by the same user!

So if you want stellarium for the bargin price of £2.99 have a look here-

ASTRONOMY & PLANETARIUM SOFTWARE SPACE, PLANETS & STAR* on eBay (end time 16-Oct-10 22:58:46 BST)

:D

EDIT - Seems from a couple of the replys that some may be taking the title to seriously! You can of course get the software free from their website WITHOUT paying for it, hense this thread!

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OptiGone

OptiGone

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Unfortunately, seller has already conned 19 buyers. Item is still listed.

Normally takes 48hrs for them to remove listings like this.

Its things like this and people selling "500+ Ebooks on DVD" (which i also report often) that wind me up about eBay. Sure you cant blame the person for trying but eBay knows it goes on and dont seem to care, I'm sure every listing is moderated and I mean how the hell can someone have the legal rights to sell 500 random books in "photocopied" format??:D

I'm sure if you placed a listing for "200 Benson & Hedges" it would be removed in seconds.

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Moonshane

Moonshane

Posted
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:)

EDIT - Seems from a couple of the replys that some may be taking the title to seriously! You can of course get the software free from their website WITHOUT paying for it, hense this thread!

we're all guilty of not reading posts properly from time to time - yours clearly states you have reported them to EBAY!!!! :D

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nebogipfel

nebogipfel

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It's a bit of a grey area in that he could argue that he is charging for duplication, media and postage and NOT the software. I don't think he does say it, but he could :D I presume he would need permission to distribute Stellarium in this way?

That said, it's all a bit shabby really.

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JB80

JB80

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But he says it's straight from the manufacturer. Which is a lie. Also he has CAD for 3 pound. I doubt he has permission for that either.Either way anybody who paid for stellarium got ripped off and fooled.

From the item description.

New: A brand-new, unused, unopened and undamaged item in original retail packaging (where packaging is applicable). If the item comes direct from a manufacturer, it may be delivered in non-retail packaging, such as a plain or unprinted box or plastic bag. See the seller's listing for full

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great_bear

great_bear

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He doesn't need permission.

Guys, you ought to read software licences before wasting your time on this issue. Stellarium's software licence is specifically designed so as NOT to discourage this kind of activity.

Nor is it a grey area. In fact it's a very well-defined area that has been tested robustly by legal teams all around the world.

Remember: The licence is designed to allow this activity.

Rather than summarise the history of it here, best to read the arguments by the authors of the software licence here:

The Free Software Definition - GNU Project - Free Software Foundation (FSF)

The only legitimate criticism that can be made of the seller, is that they haven't declared that the software in question is Stellarium. But as far as I know there is no requirement for him to do so.

Reporting this guy only wastes the time of eBay admin, or the Stellarium authors, depending on who you've reported it to.

This guy is entitled to carry out this business.

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great_bear

great_bear

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New: A brand-new, unused, unopened and undamaged item in original retail packaging (where packaging is applicable). If the item comes direct from a manufacturer, it may be delivered in non-retail packaging, such as a plain or unprinted box or plastic bag. See the seller's listing for full

That's not his description. It's eBay's auto-generated definition of what "new" is. Since this guy is "making" the distro himself, "new" is a perfectly valid term.

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great_bear

great_bear

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This post previously said:

Oh one other, counter-intuitive thing.

It's actually against the terms of the software licence for a user to PREVENT someone from distributing the software in this manner.

So, the irony is, if you're a Stellarium user, and you report this guy to eBay, it is (wait for it) YOU who've broken the software licence and - technically speaking - lost your right to use Stellarium.

Weird, huh? :D

- which on re-reading the licence, is actually incorrect. The licence only specifically disallows you from restricting the rights of those who have received their copy from you. Additionally, it doesn't state that under even those circumstances there would be any termination of your own right to use the software. GB.

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JB80

JB80

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It is clearly a fraudulent and misleading listing. The seller is not telling the truth about the software, it should be enough really. If it was listed stating that it is freeware and you are paying for the hard copy and distribution then fair enough, but it's not. It shows intent to mislead the public for profit.

Loopholes or not it is still poor form.

Clearly the seller does not know the terms of the software license otherwise they wouldn't of gone to so much effort to avoid telling people it is stellarium.

Just saying that I bet anyone who bought would not be impressed to find that it's freeware.

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Polar Bear

Polar Bear

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Oh one other, counter-intuitive thing.

It's actually against the terms of the software licence for a user to PREVENT someone from distributing the software in this manner.

So, the irony is, if you're a Stellarium user, and you report this guy to eBay, it is (wait for it) YOU who've broken the software licence and - technically speaking - lost your right to use Stellarium.

Weird, huh? :D

+1 to what you have stated.

Other sellers like this have been discussed on message boards with input from the Stellarium team and it would seem they are happy if this type of distribution gets the product to more people and hence spreads the word.

There may be a problem with downloading from Sourceforge with distribution of that download but I'm not sure without trawling through their terms and conditions.

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Polar Bear

Polar Bear

Posted
Posted
It is clearly a fraudulent and misleading listing. The seller is not telling the truth about the software, it should be enough really. If it was listed stating that it is freeware and you are paying for the hard copy and distribution then fair enough, but it's not. It shows intent to mislead the public for profit.

Loopholes or not it is still poor form.

I am sure looking at the sellers feedback and the number of these type of disks he has sold , that he has done his homework and is operating legally. It is fine under the GNU license to re-distribute if you are adding value by providing a hard copy / manual / add ons / re-configured / packeaging etc. Sellers who mearly provide a link (and there have been some) are soon put to rights.

If you are worried about labeling and being economical with the truth it is all around us in retailing.

Plenty of 'reputable' sellers out there stating 399x magnification on their telescope products

http://www.jessops.com/online.store/categories/Binoculars%20and%20Scopes/Telescopes/products/Jessops/800-80%20Astronomical%20Telescope-75447/Show.html

I rest my case m'lud

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great_bear

great_bear

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There may be a problem with downloading from Sourceforge with distribution of that download

Nope. Definitely no problem. That's an absolute. The terms and conditions of GPL licenced software expressly forbid any modification of the terms and conditions by any entity involved in the distribution chain.

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Polar Bear

Polar Bear

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Nope. Definitely no problem. That's an absolute. The terms and conditions of GPL licenced software expressly forbid any modification of the terms and conditions by any entity involved in the distribution chain.

Thanks for clarifying that :D

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Daggerstab

Daggerstab

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Posted
It's actually against the terms of the software licence for a user to PREVENT someone from distributing the software in this manner.

So, the irony is, if you're a Stellarium user, and you report this guy to eBay, it is (wait for it) YOU who've broken the software licence and - technically speaking - lost your right to use Stellarium.

Weird, huh? :)

Who are you, the GNU foundation? But I suspect that even they won't support such an interpretation of the GPL. So, no.

Other sellers like this have been discussed on message boards with input from the Stellarium team and it would seem they are happy if this type of distribution gets the product to more people and hence spreads the word.

[citation needed] There have been cases where people have shown up and demanded support, citing the fact that they have paid for the software. How do you think the developers react to that?

There may be a problem with downloading from Sourceforge with distribution of that download but I'm not sure without trawling through their terms and conditions.

There is a problem with sellers providing a link directly to SourceForge, instead of hosting it themselves or selling a copy on a disk, as this violates SF's terms of service.

The downloaded files themselves can be distributed any way that is compatible with the license.

If you are worried about labeling and being economical with the truth it is all around us in retailing.

Plenty of 'reputable' sellers out there stating 399x magnification on their telescope products

Jessops 800-80 Astronomical Telescope - Jessops

And that's why some people really hate the critters that work in PR and marketing.

Anyway, the legality of selling free/open-source software is one thing, and truth-in-advertising is another. Something can be perfectly legal, but not very moral.

The short guide to dealing with people who sell FOSS on eBay:

- If they claim copyright over the software, or don't mention that it's licensed under the GNU GPL, report them.

- If they only provide a link to SourceForge or Stellarium's website, report them.

- If the price is low enough and you have spare change, buy a copy and give them a bad rating/review. :D (What? That's perfectly legal, too. :p )

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