Helping Professional Astronomers.

[lunator]

I have got a reply from Dr Brian Mason who is the chief Astronomer in charge of the Washington Double Star Catalogue.

I had written an article for the Webb Society about the mis-labelling of the pair HJ258. This is his reply.

In simple terms the astromers have been measuring one pair whilst the catalogue gave the co-ordinates of another. Which is what i had pointed out in my article.

Just shows that despite all our technology information can be improved by a bloke with a telescope and a stopwatch.

Cheers

Ian

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Hi Ian, Morgan et al.,

This is an interesting problem. With the exception of Morgan's 2006 measure the measures of HJ 258 match the measures of GRV 916 to a remarkable degree. No person who measured one measured the other.

While GRV 916 has quite a few historical measures all of these, with the exception of John Greaves' discovery, were made by USNO through catalog matching using the precise position. The historical pair HJ

258 is matched with BD+36 2667.

On examining the Aladin images of the two precise coordinates associated with this pair, it appears that *all* the measures in the WDS match the GRV 916 pair and that Morgan's 2006 measure matches a pair at the precise position of HJ 258. The first measure we have in the WDS of this pair is by Dembowski --- I don't know why we don't have a measure from John Herschel. In any event, Morgan either measured HJ 258 (and made the first measure we have in the catalog of it), or he has measured a new pair. I'm going to need to dig into the literature and see if I can find Herschel's measure.

For now, all measures of HJ 258, with the exception of Morgan's will be put with GRV 916.

After I find Herschel's original cite one of two things will happen:

1. An old measure for Herschel will be added to HJ 258 and discovery

designations will remain the same or

2. An old measure for Herschel will be added to GRV 916, the discovery

designation for this will be changed from GRV 916 to HJ 258 and

HJ 258 will become SPN 1.

All in all, an interesting little problem. Thanks!

Brian

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[daz]

Flippin' eck!!

As you say, there are still plenty of areas that amateurs can take part in real scientific study.

A big 'Congratulations' Ian!

[Greg]

Ian,

It just proves the fact that amateur astronomers have their scientific place in modern astronomy...

WELL DONE...

[lunator]

Yep

double stars & variable stars are 2 areas where amateurs are vital to astronomy.

The Webb Soc supplements are going on-line so should be more easily available.

The other great thing is that like this forum you get to communicate with like minded individuals from numerous countries.

On this particular topic I spoke with people from the UK,USA, Spain & Hungary.

[Caz]

It must feel very rewarding to be part of something so beneficial. Nice one Ian

Caz

[FLO]

Blimey Ian!

Nice one 8)

[Astroman]

Doesn't that feel GREAT, Ian? Big round of applause! There are a number of ways amateurs work closely with the pros to do science. Brian Skiff has a list of "projects" he'd like to do, but for telescope time. Amateurs are a great resource for the pros, and collaborations are growing.

Keep up the good work!

[geppetto]

Interesting stuff..

Nice one Ian 8)

[lunator]

I got this mail today.

They made the changes to the WDS and Morgan Spangle a fellow DS enthuiast has been credited with the 1st measure of the new pair.

I will be writing this up for the Webb Society.

Cheers

ian

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Hi Ian,

Thought I'd share the good news from Brian - SPN 1 exists!

all the best,

Morgan

Begin forwarded message:

> From: "Brian D. Mason" <bdm@usno.navy.mil>

> Date: November 15, 2006 4:02:22 PM EST

> To: msfainc@optonline.net

> Cc: bdm@draco.usno.navy.mil

> Subject: HJ 258 = GRV 916 !

>

>

>

> Morgan,

>

> I took a look at John Herschel's original measure. He had it at

> 15 50.4 (RA) 53 deg 25' (NPD) at epoch 1825. This precesses to

> 15 56 55.32 +36 04 22.2, which is right on top of GRV 916. He has the

> magnitudes at 9 & 10, also a better match of GRV 916 and his relative

> position is 15" south preceeding (roughly 225 deg), again, a better

> match to GRV 916.

>

> So, GRV 916 has been renamed HJ 258 with all the measures, plus

> Herschel's from 1820 and HJ 258 has been renamed SPN 1. We have

> scoured the astrometric catalogs we have and have a pre-confirming

> measure of SPN 1 from 2MASS.

>

> 15569+3613 1998.32 86.8 25.37 . . 1

> TMA2003 51EK A

>

>

> Brian

[david scanlan]

Congratulations :hello1:

Its always good when amateurs can contribute like this.

Dave