Eyepiece kit or single good quality EP

[dmahon]

Still looking at everything before deciding to jump in and buy:

Eyepiece kits (eg Celestron Eyeopener Eyepiece and Filter Kit) - worth buying one to complement the free eyepiece that comes with the scope, or better to just spend that money on one high quality eyepiece and build up others later?

[Mouse on the Moon]

Quality over quantity. You will not be dissapointed.

[great_bear]

Disagree.

The Revelation Astro Photo-Visual kit is a case full of rebranded Meade 4000 Plossls plus a rebranded Orion Shorty Barlow and some filters all for £130.

You CAN have both quality and quantity all in one go.

Furthermore, you'll learn a lot about eyepieces in the process.

[Rossco72]

Less is more.

I bet if you buy a kit, like i did and many more before me, you will end up selling them all.

Buy a good quality workhorse EP and it will last a lifetime.

Cheers

Stuart

[great_bear]

All EPs last a lifetime if looked after.

There's a presumption here that a quality workhorse EP cannot be found in a kit. What's exactly is so wrong with (e.g.) a 12.5mm Revelation Plossl?

There's also a (slightly weird) assumption that if you buy an EP kit, you'll never be able to buy another eyepiece in future.

A full set of good Plossls - like the GSO ones in the Revelation kit - does not preclude anyone from buying a TeleVue Radian, or Meade SWA, or Zeiss Abbe or whatever takes their fancy in future.

I wouldn't dream of selling off the individual eyepieces in a kit. A good Plossl kit serves as a useful reference as to what to expect from different focal lengths (very useful when you buy a second or third scope), and also serves as a "reference set" against which the quality of future purchases can be measured.

[robhal9000]

Hi,

I would look at a couple of half decent EPs. Maybe a good Plossl or Orthoscopic (or a TMB planetary/SPL) in a size that will give you mag of around 180x to 200x (depends on scope, but anything at 4 or 5 inch Apeture or above should be capable of that). That's your main Planetary EP, also useful for closeup lunar and the brighter DSOs.

Get a widefield EP, something like a Skywatcher or WO between 25mm and 35mm (again depends on scope). You really want as wide a FOV as possible with this EP, Something around 70 degrees apparent FOV.

Later you can look into barlows and EPs in the mid range. But in my experience 'less is more'. Less messing around in the dark, Less to carry.

I spent two hours using just a 30mm in my scope the other night. Only switched to a higher mag when I was looks at the planets later on.

[Keiran]

I wouldnt invest in an EP kit, nor would i buy a brand new quality EP, or at least not at the moment ( unless i come in to serious money )

My advice is to buy second hand, well recommended EP's that you can afford, make your own asumption and if you dont get on with it sell it on... you can almost guarentee that you can sell a S/H for what you paid...

I have bought a couple of EP's some from Great Bear... GSO and I have got on with them quite well, and they didnt cost me the world , also a Meade 4000 26mm, and a 2" 26mm SWA... and i have just invested in a 20mm Meade 5000

Hope that Helps

Keiran

[robhal9000]

Hi,

Keep making posts you need 50 posts for the 'for sale' section or you can try the astro buy and sell website and ebay for some decent 2nd hand bargains.

I would go as far to say don't buy anything, including the telescope, new.

Astro stuff needs to be kept in good nick so the 2nd hand stuff is almost always in great condition. There is a second hand dob for sale in SGLs fo sale section that looks amazing and so many little improvements have been made by the owner that it is better than buying one brand new.

[StarMan1701]

Here we go again...

Lee.

[dmahon]

Sorry.

Thanks for all the advice so far.

[dmahon]

Hi,

Keep making posts you need 50 posts for the 'for sale' section or you can try the astro buy and sell website and ebay for some decent 2nd hand bargains.

Ah - there are hidden for sale forums?

[Daryl]

Yes..one of the busiest parts of the forum lol

regarding eye pieces, im a noob so I guess my input dont mean much but I deffo favour geting the best I can either new or 2nd hand, id rather have 2 or 3 excellent quality EP's rather than a handful of cheaper average ones

[Worzsel]

I'm a newb and am hoping to pick up a SH relevelation kit when one comes up.

The way I see things is I have NO idea what fl ep I want, let alone what design so hopefully with a box of various o es I can see what I like and then sell the kit and invest.

[great_bear]

im a noob so I guess my input dont mean much but I deffo favour geting the best I can either new or 2nd hand, id rather have 2 or 3 excellent quality EP's rather than a handful of cheaper average ones

Well - don't make the noob mistake of thinking cost=quality-of-view.

In the shops, upwards of 5mm, you simply can't buy a better quality of view in an off-the-shelf eyepiece than a Baader Genuine Orthoscopic and they're just £72!

You can pay for example £100 more per eyepiece and get TeleVue Radians - but it won't improve the image. It's important to realise that upwards of the Baader Genuine Orthoscopic or TeleVue Plossl (same price, roughly) what your extra money buys you is comfort and field-of-view - not additional image "quality".

[Daryl]

Thx for that explanation Bear.

[Rossco72]

Well - don't make the noob mistake of thinking cost=quality-of-view.

In the shops, upwards of 5mm, you simply can't buy a better quality of view in an off-the-shelf eyepiece than a Baader Genuine Orthoscopic and they're just £72!

You can pay for example £100 more per eyepiece and get TeleVue Radians - but it won't improve the image. It's important to realise that upwards of the Baader Genuine Orthoscopic or TeleVue Plossl (same price, roughly) what your extra money buys you is comfort and field-of-view - not additional image "quality".

And comfort shouldn't be underestimated!!

[Keiran]

And comfort shouldn't be underestimated!!

Yea but some of the cheaper EP's are still comfortable, and they dont carry that price tag... can you seriously justify that extra cost for what is probably only a little bit more comfort... Is it that noticable??

[Rossco72]

Yea but some of the cheaper EP's are still comfortable, and they dont carry that price tag... can you seriously justify that extra cost for what is probably only a little bit more comfort... Is it that noticable??

All I can say is that from my own perspective, Peering through pinholes with no eye relief almost made me give up.

How much is comfort worth if it makes the difference between observing and not observing, sticking with astronomy or giving up. Each individual has to answer that for themselves I guess.

Looking through a 6mm Plossl and a 6mm Ethos doesn't bear comparison. The quality of the image in the centre of the field may be similar, but the whole experience is enhanced in the ethos because you dont have a tiny piece of glass to peer through.

[dmahon]

Thanks again.

[great_bear]

How much is comfort worth if it makes the difference between observing and not observing?

Fair point, but I suspect that Keiran was probably not referring to (say) orthos, but instead, other low-cost eyepieces such as the Lacerta (WO/Zhumell) Super Planetaries from 365Astronomy or their TMB Planetaries also available from ModernAstronomy and SkysTheLimit. Both of these eyepieces are very comfortable and easy-to-use compared to traditional designs.

I agree about comfort, and although I hate to admit it, I'm no longer "Hardcore Ortho Man" after looking through a TMB Planetary. I neither wanted nor expected to be a lover of that particular eyepiece, but since at £36 (SkysTheLimit) it provides a Radian-style view at a fifth of the price, even those who can afford Radians will get better views by buying TMB Planetaries and spending the savings on the other end of their telescope instead.

In fact, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if the recent, not-to-be-sniffed-at, "3 for 2" offer on TeleVue Radians was due to their sales being clobbered by TMB Planetary Eyepieces.

[Doc]

All depends what scope it's being used in.

A cheaper eyepiece like the ones in kits will be good in a F10 scope but put it in a F4.5 and it will be horrible.

Fast scope = quality eyepieces

slow scopes = medium eyepieces.

[Jakstaar17]

Darn it.

I thought that i had decided that the Celestron Eyeopener Eyepiece and Filter Kit was best for me as i need a moon filter and wouldn't mind a yellow filter too, to also go along with the 10mm and 25mm eyepieces that come with my Skywater 200p Dob. Now i am unsure again.

Is it widely accepted then that the quality of these EPs are far less than that of the £70+ ones.

as i would like to get a couple at least, along with a moon filter. If i go for the £70+ ones i will be looking at spending around £150 plus the extra for the filter for 2 EPs. When the kit is £125 for 5 EPs, a Barlow, and 7 filters. (Bear in mind i am i beginner)

[Rossco72]

Darn it.

I thought that i had decided that the Celestron Eyeopener Eyepiece and Filter Kit was best for me as i need a moon filter and wouldn't mind a yellow filter too, to also go along with the 10mm and 25mm eyepieces that come with my Skywater 200p Dob. Now i am unsure again.

Is it widely accepted then that the quality of these EPs are far less than that of the £70+ ones.

as i would like to get a couple at least, along with a moon filter. If i go for the £70+ ones i will be looking at spending around £150 plus the extra for the filter for 2 EPs. When the kit is £125 for 5 EPs, a Barlow, and 7 filters. (Bear in mind i am i beginner)

People on here can give advice and guidance, however ultimately it is your money and your decision. I bought one of those Celestron kits and don't have a single piece left. Do they give you a lot of options for the money, yes. Do they provide good quality, well corrected EP's, debateable.

From the kit I found there was only a couple of EP's I found even comfortable to use and often ended up back with the 25mm that came with my first scope!

I think you would find buying a nice planetary EP at 5-8mm and a good workhorse at 12-18mm would provide plenty of options along with your existing EP's at present. You can pick the colour filters up very cheaply on Astroboot for a couple of pounds.

[great_bear]

Is it widely accepted then that the quality of these EPs are far less than that of the £70+ ones?

No it most certainly isn't. I can't comment on the Celestron Kit (which Rossco72 is talking about), but I can comment on the Revelation Photo Visual Kit. On-axis there is very little to choose between a TeleVue Plossl and a Revelation Kit (GSO) one. Here's respected CN contributor jrbarnett on whether TeleVue Plossls are worth twice the cost of GSO Plossls: "I can think of no simple eyepiece, not Televue Plossl, Brandon, CZJ Ortho, Pentax SMC Ortho, TMB Supermono, Takahashi LE, Pentax XO, you name it, that is "twice" as good as a GSO"

Bear in mind that the GSO Plossls in the Revelation Kit are the same eyepieces that Meade sell individually for £42 each as their Series 4000 Plossls.

The only significant difference that you'll see between that "Ultimate" off-the-shelf Plossl, the "TeleVue" and the GSO Plossls in the Revelation Kit, is that the GSO ones - when used in "fast" (F5) scopes - will exhibit slight distortion of stars at the field edge, known as "Eyepiece Astigmatism". If this bothers you, then simply use one of the larger eyepieces in conjunction with the supplied Barlow lens. The problem goes away and you get improved comfort of use as well.

Of course, if you wanted to, you could go to the shops and buy the following:

4 x Meade S4000 Plossls @ £42 = £168

1 x 32mm GSO Projection Plossl = £58

1 x T-Adaptor = £9

5 x Filters @ £9 = £45

1x Orion Shorty Barlow = £39

1 x Flight Case with Foam = £19

Total cost of components: £338.00

You might feel all smug with yourself because you'd bought "quality" components instead of "one of those awful kits" But you'd also be foolish, since the above is exactly the contents of the Revelation Photo-Visual Kit anyway! (without the names printed on the barrels)

The only valid criticism of the kit (from Doc, aka Mick), is that the Plossls are not sharp to the edge in F5 scopes - but that's true of all traditional Plossls. Only the TeleVue Plossl is sharp in fast scopes because it is a specially modified, patented design - and in any case, if this is a problem, then use of the supplied Barlow solves it.

Criticism of the Revelation Kit is invariably based on ignorance as to its actual contents and optical pedigree.

And hey! - Maybe you might sell off the eyepieces individually - but what's wrong with that? You'll have learnt about what focal lengths are useful to you, and - even at second-hand prices - you'll more than make back the price you originally paid for the whole kit brand new.

Also don't forget that - if ordering via the internet - you can buy the kit, and if you don't like it - return it within 7 days for a full refund including the original delivery charges.

[yeti monster]

It is better to try as many EPs as you can, if you can, to find out what suits you, as well as your scope. Attend a star party or club open night and see what's being used and why.

As with every other specialised interest activity, there's an industry hoping to take your money off you, some folk like the bragging rights of owning the most expensive and exclusive products, regardless of actual quality. My own personal bragging right is my ever increasing collection of Sky Rover EPs and my only complaint, thus far, is regarding the 2" 35mm ED I bought last month. A truely fantastic wide field EP which is spoilt by the shadow of my secondary. To solve this problem I now HAVE to buy a refractor from them (not that I needed any persuassion), as even with the shadow, it has given me the clearest view ever of Andromeda (when positioned to the edge of the FOV).