Advice on new imaging setup please.

[ashworthacca]

I'm interested in DSO imaging but don't really know anything about it. I've read a little and if I was to get into this field I'm drawn towards the following

Skywatcher Evostar 80ED DS-Pro OTA

EQ5 PRO GOTO

Canon DSLR or CCD?

What other accessories would I need and also what do you guys think of the above....is it a suitable starter kit. I wont be using it for visual work only imaging.

RegardsEDIT: I think I should expand a little. I have a budget of about £1000. I already have a decent laptop and don't mind buying second hand. I'm still reading up on imaging but don't really know enough to confidently choose a good setup. Can I buy better for the same sort of price range? I'm concious that I do need a good mount with good tracking, will the EQ5 Pro be good enough for this, is there better within my budget. Sorry for all the questions, I'm just looking for some pointers to get me going in the right direction.

[Bizibilder]

Get a copy of "Every Photon Counts" by Steve Richards (usual disclaimer!). It takes you through the basics of imaging step by step, pointing out the pitfalls and explains clearly the what and the why of each stage and all the options of the beginners kit that is required.

[ashworthacca]

Get a copy of "Every Photon Counts" by Steve Richards (usual disclaimer!). It takes you through the basics of imaging step by step, pointing out the pitfalls and explains clearly the what and the why of each stage and all the options of the beginners kit that is required.

That's great, I'll get on Amazon now.

Regards

[Demonperformer]

Think you may have problems getting it on Amazon ... it is available from FLO

[ashworthacca]

Think you may have problems getting it on Amazon ... it is available from FLO

Doh, of course. Thanks.

[sgazer]

that scope is great, if a little slow (f7.5). The mount is very important too, you may want to factor in a guide scope eg. a ST-80, in which case the EQ5 might struggle. A cheaper reflector on a HEQ5 might be a better bet. With guiding you can 'easily' get 10 minute subs, even just with ok'ish polar alignment (I just place the tripod feet in the same place each night and it's fine), without guiding, even very good polar alignment will only give 2-3mins.

I'm currently using a C80-ED on a HEQ5 and I wonder if I'd be better off with something a bit faster focal ratio.

At least with the Skywatcher frac, you can get a reducer/flattener, but that's more money again.

It's a bit of a bottomless pit where money is concerned, but very exciting and you can image things that you couldn't hope to see visually.

Grab a second hand 1000d for a bargain price, I got a mod'd one for £350 with a CLS filter, worth looking around for.

[ashworthacca]

Thanks sgazer, that's food for thought.

I've just ordered "Making Every Photon Count" from FLO so I'll do some major reading before I splash the cash but everyones input and help is appreciated.

Regards

[blinky]

I would say that you want to go for the HEQ5 Pro. You will really notice the difference in the bigger mount and it is one of the most important (if not the most important) part of the imaging setup. As for the scope, well it depends on what you want to do I suppose.... If would suggest something like the scope you suggested but also get a reducer for it and you will also very quickly need a 2nd scope to piggy back on top for guiding. Stick to something like an 80mm scope as it makes the (very steep) learning curve that bit easier, you can get some fantastic results with an 80mm scope and DSLR.

[ashworthacca]

Thanks blinky, talking about piggy backing really brings it home that I have a lot to learn, don't know anything about that as well.

I had my doubts that the EQ5 would be adequate, wishful thinking on my behalf I think.

Regards

[blinky]

Yeah, I had a EQ5 but the step up to an HEQ5 is something i think you would want to do pretty soon. I would say get the HEQ5 Pro then see what you have left, a 2nd hand ED80 and an ST80 to guide with would be a great widefield setup. I think the Pro model adds a dual speed focuser but TBH I have never felt my ED80 misses it!

[ashworthacca]

Yeah, I had a EQ5 but the step up to an HEQ5 is something i think you would want to do pretty soon. I would say get the HEQ5 Pro then see what you have left, a 2nd hand ED80 and an ST80 to guide with would be a great widefield setup. I think the Pro model adds a dual speed focuser but TBH I have never felt my ED80 misses it!

Thanks again, it's really appreciated.

I've had a quick search but can't really find a easy to understand thread about piggybacking a second scope and what it entails. I don't actually understand the concept of it and especially how it would work in real life.

Is there any recommended reading on this aspect?

Regards

[Demonperformer]

I would say get the HEQ5 Pro then see what you have left

I was looking at a similar setup a while back. As I understand it, if you are running it from a computer/laptop (and if you are imaging, you probably are) then the syntrek mount + EQDIR module effectively gives you a synscan model. (Any other differences, I am sure people will leap in and correct me)

The HEQ5 syntrek is £580 from Sherwoods + £40 for the EQDIR from FLO makes a total outlay of £620, which is a considerable saving on £695 for the synscan from Sherwoods.

I have no experience of these mounts, other than the advice I was given on the forum. My previous dealings with Sherwoods have always been excellent (=they get it right & fast). Here is the link to the mounts at Sherwoods: Skywatcher Telescope Mounts and Mounting Accessories

I pass these thoughts on for what they are worth.

Thanks.

[ashworthacca]

Many thanks, that's great advice. Any savings I can make now will no doubt be spent on other things later.

Regards

[sgazer]

yep, the tracking and overall smoothness of the HEQ5-pro is excellent (although I'm only comparing it to a Celestron CG5-GT).

I've also sort of followed my own advice and ordered a Skywatcher 150p-ds, a nice fast compact reflector.

(they are £890 on a HEQ5-pro - the GOTO version, from FLO)

oh yes and that book is great too.

[Demonperformer]

(they are £890 on a HEQ5-pro - the GOTO version, from FLO)

£875 at Sherwoods

[jgs001]

Don't get the pro version.. you're gonna be using a lappy anyway... get the Syntrek... you won't need the handset, which adds considerably to the cost, as you can use the lappy for full goto and guide control. This is what I do with the C80ED, same optics as the scope you're looking at. I have an ST80 clone sat alongside it as a guide scope.

[ashworthacca]

After further reading and help via pm by a really helpful member I have made some sort of decision moving forward.

• Orion ED80 Refractor has been bought off these forums.
  
• Will be mounted on HEQ5 Pro (Goto, not sure yet......probably not reading post above:p)
  
• A Canon modified DSLR
  
• Maybe a cheap guide scope with a CCD guider piggy backed?? Don't really understand this part at all.
  
• I'll need some form of power to the scope
  
• T mount to attach the DSLR to the scope
  
• I have a reasonable laptop and adobe photoshop for editing.
  
• I have order "Making Every Photon Count" which is to be delivered today or tomorrow so many hours reading ahead.
  

The above is subject to change no doubt, other than the scope which I've already ordered and am satisfied that this was a great buy.

Comment welcome guys but thanks for the feedback so far.

Regards

[jgs001]

For a cheap guider, it's not gonna be as sensitive as a CCD, but I've not had any issues (apart from software related with mine, and that was installing it all) it's worth looking at the QHY5 and QHY5v. I have the v and it makes an excellent lunar camera... I need to try it on the planets, and Saturn may get pointed at later tonight. I'm finishing the mosaicing from last nights efforts with the 5v at the moment (done with the C80ED in fact ).

[ashworthacca]

For a cheap guider, it's not gonna be as sensitive as a CCD, but I've not had any issues (apart from software related with mine, and that was installing it all) it's worth looking at the QHY5 and QHY5v. I have the v and it makes an excellent lunar camera... I need to try it on the planets, and Saturn may get pointed at later tonight. I'm finishing the mosaicing from last nights efforts with the 5v at the moment (done with the C80ED in fact ).

On the Guider part I'm really lost, don't really understand what guiding entails tbh? Am I on the right lines with this.

If I piggy back a ST80 to my ED80 and attach a QHY5 to the ST80 then that will basically do the tracking part. Then I just attach a DSLR to the ED80 and shot away?

What do you focus on with the guide scope?

Sorry I'm really confused with this part.

Thanks for the help.

[jgs001]

Martin, the camera on the guidescope is hooked up to the lappy... there you run software that can also control the mount (PHD works great). The Guide camera is focused on a star in it's FOV. The guide software tracks it, and if it detects movement, sends corrections to the mount to put the star back precisely where it was. Then as you say with the SLR on the ED80 off you go.

[sgazer]

Regarding the guiding;

this is generally needed for exposures for longer than 2-3mins because even with very accurate polar alignment of the mount, inacurracies in the drive gears and errors in alignment will cause the image to drift a little during exposures. It only needs to drift a few arc seconds before the stars are not round any more.

There are several ways to guide. The one suggested here uses a seperate guide scope and camera firmly attached to the main imaging scope. This scope only needs to be small, but a sensitive camera helps in finding a guide star. So, once you have your main scope pointing to the object you are interested in imaging, the guide scope will be roughly pointing towards the same bit of sky and hopefully the guide camera will be able to see a few stars in the area, it doesn't matter what they are. The guide camera will send the image of the stars it sees to the laptop which will then be proccessed in some guiding software such as guidemaster/PHD etc. This software is able to detect tiny movements in the star which are caused by the mount drive/alingment errors mention before. It then sends commands to the mount to make corrections to the position of the mount to counter these errors. As the guide scope points to a similar patch of sky as the imaging scope (with your DSLR attached), then these corrections will result in the same corrections being applied to the image you are taking with the main scope and hence the stars will remain round and the tracking will be good.

That's the theory, in practise, it takes well....practise, but it's definately woth it. It took me a while to try it, then I wished I'd tried it earlier. It also means that your polar alignment doesn't have to be deadly accurate, as I mentioned before, if you can mark the ground and get a pretty similar setup position for your mount each night, this is usually enough with guiding.

[ashworthacca]

Thanks guys, I think I'm slowly getting it. No doubt I'll be back picking your brains when I have all my kit bought.......the £1000 budget seems to well and truly smashed.

[ashworthacca]

I'm really trying to limit my spending on this and one area that I need to overcome is power to the mount. I have a electric golf trolley that runs from a battery. Is there any way that I can use this to power the mount and if so what else do I need to achieve this? I think (but will check) that it's a 12v 24Ah battery.

[jgs001]

Astronomiser sells cables that will allow you to take power directly from a battery to a suitable mount connection.

Astronomiser - Automated Astronomy and AstroImaging Solutions

[Merlin66]

I use a collection of similar buggy batteries, 20Ah gel cells. Works very well. You will need a suitable triple stage charger to prevent over-charging.

Mine are now well over three years old and still function 100%

Ken