HD Webcam Modification

[Auntystatic]

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[Probablynot]

George's instructions at the beginning of this thread (for modding a MS HD Lifecam Cinema), together with those provided by Gary Honis at Instructions for Converting Microsoft Lifecam Cinema HD Webcam for Telescope Use -by Gary Honis were superb! Very easy to follow, and seemingly nothing left out. I had no problems as I went through everything step by step, and now I have a very neat, working webcam that plugs easily into the focuser of my SW150p.

Well, I say 'working', but so far I've only been able to check it by focusing (daytime) on a 1.5-mile-distant hilltop and saving the results.

I had no difficulty finding the focus point, whether or not I used a Barlow with the webcam. Actually focusing (to get a nice, sharp image on the laptop screen) was more of a problem though. The focus was slightly fuzzy, no matter how careful I was with the focuser.

The general concensus was that it was a Good Thing to fit an IR/UV filter, and that this would help with fuzzy focusing. So I ordered one, which came this morning.

Or to be precise, an IR filter came, because the UV/IR filter I ordered was not in stock. The BC019 Revelation Astro IR Blocking Filter was reckoned by the supplier to be a 'replacement' for the (out of stock) Scope Teknix IR and UV blocking filter I had ordered. But a web search revealed that the Revelation was worth about half the price of the Scope Teknix I thought I was paying for, so I was rather miffed! Enquiries and complaints are currently ongoing!

Anyway ...

I got a reasonably clear image of a couple of fence-posts on the horizon. Even the rolled-up bit of surplus wire netting showed up nicely. A video sequence easily picked out swaying grass stems. So I reckoned my initial test run ought to count as 'satisfactory-ish'.

I say 'reasonably clear', but to be honest I was expecting rather better from a HD camera. Fuzzy focus can apparently result from having no UV/IR filter, so I do wonder if I need to dish out more dosh and buy a Baader or better?

Obviously I do need to test the webcam on a proper astronomical target before I get too het up about the image quality. I'm waiting for clear skies. But I'd be glad to hear how others have dealt with fuzzy imaging. Also, any comments about the use of budget-end UV/IR filters (or just IR filters) on a webcam which itself cost only £34, would be well appreciated.

[Oh, and perhaps I ought to mention that the pics I took on that initial test run were taken through not-exactly-clean double glazing!]

[Flying Eye]

[Oh, and perhaps I ought to mention that the pics I took on that initial test run were taken through not-exactly-clean double glazing!]

Double glazing reflects light (from the room) back into the lens, and this is what makes the focus look soft or fuzzy. If the room you are in is not dark it will make it worse still.

Maybe find a room where the windows can open? Problems should be much less, promise!

I have to shoot through glass quite a lot and there are a few things to tweak to get the best out of such a poor situation. The reflection is surely the biggest enemy in making for soft looking shots. Obviously I spend a ridiculous amount of time cleaning the glass to try and help things be the best they can.

Oh and don't shoot at right angles to the glass either, just end up seeing the camera lens reflected in itself too!

Hope it helps, it should.

[Gina]

Ah, that's why you got fuzzy images - taken through non-optical glass and without coatings to stop internal reflections. You do need a UV/IR blocking filter though. Both IR and UV will be out of focus and cause blurring. These webcams are very sensitive to NIR like most image sensors without filtering.

[DIYASTRO]

just ordered two of these from www.Pixmania.com Hope they are as good as everyone says!

Would like to get hold of SPC900nc's but seemingly rare! I shall have to find some time to scan some of the threads to see what people are doing with these. Looking forward to having a play with something a bit different!

Regards

Boyd

[nictori]

After reading thru this thread and whatever else I could find, including the the mod pages. I feel pretty confident I can do this mod without stuffing it up....well not to much I hope.

1 question though......am I right in thinking that the auto focus part of the camera is removed during the mod.

In other words.....rather that wasting money building an auto focuser I would leave it alone and concentrate on this.

I hope that made sense...it did in my head but strange things happen in there sometimes....

[Gina]

You can only leave the lens and auto focuser on if you want to use afocal imaging through an eyepiece. For the more usual prime focus imaging you need to remove the lens/autofocus unit.

[JamesF]

The postman a Lifecam Cinema to me today. When plugged into one of my Linux boxes and queried using my new capture program, this is the output:

Camera on /dev/video0 has support for:

single planar API vidcap

Modifiable controls:

Auto Exposure: min = 0, max = 3, step = 1, default = 1

Exposure: min = 5, max = 20000, step = 1, default = 156

saturation: min = 0, max = 200, step = 1, default = 83

power filter: min = 0, max = 2, step = 1, default = 1

auto white bal: min = 0, max = 1, step = 1, default = 1

white bal K: min = 2800, max = 10000, step = 1, default = 4500

Other controls:

brightness: min = 30, max = 255, step = 1, default = 133

contrast: min = 0, max = 10, step = 1, default = 5

sharpness: min = 0, max = 50, step = 1, default = 25

backlight comp: min = 0, max = 10, step = 1, default = 0

Pan Absolute: min = -201600, max = 201600, step = 3600, default = 0

Tilt Absolute: min = -201600, max = 201600, step = 3600, default = 0

Focus Absolute: min = 0, max = 40, step = 1, default = 0

Focus Auto: min = 0, max = 1, step = 1, default = 0

Zoom Absolute: min = 0, max = 10, step = 1, default = 0

Video Formats:

video format[0]: YUV 4:2:2 (YUYV), YUYV

framesize 640x480: intervals: 1/30 1/20 1/15 1/10 2/15

framesize 1280x720: intervals: 1/10 2/15

framesize 960x544: intervals: 1/15 1/10 2/15

framesize 800x448: intervals: 1/20 1/15 1/10 2/15

framesize 640x360: intervals: 1/30 1/20 1/15 1/10 2/15

framesize 424x240: intervals: 1/30 1/20 1/15 1/10 2/15

framesize 352x288: intervals: 1/30 1/20 1/15 1/10 2/15

framesize 320x240: intervals: 1/30 1/20 1/15 1/10 2/15

framesize 800x600: intervals: 1/15 1/10 2/15

framesize 176x144: intervals: 1/30 1/20 1/15 1/10 2/15

framesize 160x120: intervals: 1/30 1/20 1/15 1/10 2/15

framesize 1280x800: intervals: 1/10

video format[1]: MJPEG, MJPG (compressed)

framesize 640x480: intervals: 1/30 1/20 1/15 1/10 2/15

framesize 1280x720: intervals: 1/30 1/20 1/15 1/10 2/15

framesize 960x544: intervals: 1/30 1/20 1/15 1/10 2/15

framesize 800x448: intervals: 1/30 1/20 1/15 1/10 2/15

framesize 640x360: intervals: 1/30 1/20 1/15 1/10 2/15

framesize 800x600: intervals: 1/30 1/20 1/15 1/10 2/15

framesize 416x240: intervals: 1/30 1/20 1/15 1/10 2/15

framesize 352x288: intervals: 1/30 1/20 1/15 1/10 2/15

framesize 176x144: intervals: 1/30 1/20 1/15 1/10 2/15

framesize 320x240: intervals: 1/30 1/20 1/15 1/10 2/15

framesize 160x120: intervals: 1/30 1/20 1/15 1/10 2/15

The "modifiable controls" section at the start are the ones the program allows me to set from its command line options. Otherwise there's nothing special to differentiate them from the rest. Looks like I need to add "brightness" to the list.

These values are the actual ones reported by the camera to the driver, not anything Windows has got it's fingers on and mangled into something it thinks the user will understand. So, the camera won't admit to having any kind of gain control per se. I've not tinkered with the brightness control yet so I don't know if that really modifies the gain or is just a black level control. I suspect the sensor chip's automatic gain control is hard-wired on, which is less than desirable but such is life.

The camera also appears to claim that it can only do 10fps or 7.5fps at full resolution in YUYV, whilst 15, 20 and 30fps are supported with MJPEG. It's a shame the camera doesn't appear to be able to crop the image in firmware and deliver a smaller ROI to the PC.

Exposure is, in theory at least, supposed to be in units of 100usec., so it looks like exposures of up to two seconds are possible.

James

[samtheeagle]

It's a shame the camera doesn't appear to be able to crop the image in firmware and deliver a smaller ROI to the PC.

Exposure is, in theory at least, supposed to be in units of 100usec., so it looks like exposures of up to two seconds are possible.

Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but on your first point there surely this relates to the following values:

Pan Absolute: min = -201600, max = 201600, step = 3600, default = 0

Tilt Absolute: min = -201600, max = 201600, step = 3600, default = 0

Zoom Absolute: min = 0, max = 10, step = 1, default = 0

When I'm using my lifecam with sharpcap I use a lower resolution, say 640x480, and then use the zoom and pan an tilt to move the ROI. Have I got the wrong end of the stick?

And the potential for a 2 second exposure direct from the hardware sounds fantastic! If only we could figure out how...

[JamesF]

It's entirely possible that I have the wrong end of the stick. My camera didn't come with any instructions and I've not had a chance to play with it properly yet. The impression I got was that the zoom was optical rather than digital which is why people disable it as part of the mod. Does going to 640x480 reduce the field of view, or dither the image down to 640x480 from 1280x800? I guess I can answer these questions myself once I have time to tinker with the camera...

James

[samtheeagle]

Well I've modded my lifecam, with the lens removed, so the zoom feature does something other than control that. In sharpcap the image scale of planets is increased with the use of zoom, and I can center them in the video stream by tweaking the pan and tilt values. My understanding is that it's an ROI being moved about the sensor, but perhaps it's all smoke and mirrors?

[libraryman]

May have missed this somewhere but what is the smallest practical eyepiece that can be adapted for the lifecam.

i have a couple of old 10mm's

Ray

[basher0010]

Has anyone done this mod with the LifeCam Studio? (the 1080p one) I have a LifeCam Cinema (720p) sat on my desk but if the studio works the same I might get one and try it as I have another use for the cinema.

Thanks

yep done the studio check my album for the results..

Stargazers Lounge - basher0010's Album: March Moon

[nictori]

Thabks for that Gina.

Can anyone tell me how far in from the end of the eyepiece extension/spare eyepiece (wahtever is used) the end of the cam should be...lens bit of course.

[JamesF]

It doesn't really matter, as long as you have enough travel in the focuser to get the camera sensor to the image plane. If you don't have enough outwards travel with the focuser then that's relatively easy to sort. If you don't have enough inwards travel then it's more tricky, but I don't think that's going to be a problem in this situation.

James

[JamesF]

Oh, yeah, try finding the focus during daylight first, when there's no rush to be getting those award-winning pictures of Saturn on the one night of the decade when the seeing is perfect

James

[nictori]

Thanks James. I figure if I place it just beyond (2-4mm) the filter threads I should be right.

Either that or take it apart and shove it up further..

[JamesF]

Thanks James. I figure if I place it just beyond (2-4mm) the filter threads I should be right.

I have mine a bit further back than that in my butchered Skywatcher 25mm lens that I appear to have accumulated so may of. I'll sort a photo out shortly. I don't think it makes a huge amount of difference. Yours will probably just reach focus an inch or so further out than mine.

Either that or take it apart and shove it up further..

*cough*

James

[nictori]

A pic would be great. Now all I need is a blumming spare eye piece.....off to second hand stores tomorrow

[Gina]

Oh, yeah, try finding the focus during daylight first, when there's no rush to be getting those award-winning pictures of Saturn on the one night of the decade when the seeing is perfect

James

Excellent advice That's what I do too. Find a distant object to focus on and the focus will only need a small adjustment for planets etc.

[JamesF]

Ok, a couple of pictures of my newly-modded Lifecam Cinema. I have a number of the kit 25mm lenses that Skywatcher ship with their scopes, so I removed the eyecup, lenses and spacers from one and used it to house the modded camera. At the back I've used the original backplate, clipped back into the housing to locate the camera in the tube. At the front I've used an o-ring between the tube and camera housing to hold the camera snugly in position.

I'd estimate that the camera sensor is at about the same position as where the metal section of the tube joins the plastic.

James

[Gina]

Nice neat job I did much the same with my Studio version.

[nictori]

Thanks for that James. A picture tells a hounds words....I haven't started the mod because I read it is better to keep the sensor uncovered as little a possible. Just waiting to find an eyepiece.. Having just got into this I don't have any spares yet.

[JamesF]

If you're near a telescope shop then they might have an old 1.25" 25mm eyepiece they'd happily sell for a few quid, otherwise they come up on Astroboot quite regularly for £10 or less, but once you're getting close to £10 then you're getting close to the price of the Billet Parts adapter.

James

[libraryman]

Billetparts adapters back in stock, only 8 left in though! £14:95 + Postage

Ray