Cloudynights forum advice ??

[GazOC]

It's a great resource though

That sums it up for me. Becuase of the number of members theres a lot of people on there with a lot of experiences of different kit. Always handy if you have an obscure problem because usually someone on there has had the same issues.

[beamish]

Exactly ! Their members no 1000's and there's alot of experience to draw on.

[Talitha]

In reading some of the comments, i'd have to agree.. favoritism and unfair moderation has always been problematic in CN for as long as i can remember. Sadly, many valuable members have been lost because of it.

Shortly after i joined, one of the moderators (now an Admin) asked if i'd be interested in becoming a Mod. I diplomatically declined, using the slow dial-up connection i had as an excuse. But TBH, it was because i didn't want anyone thinking i adhered to the "my way or the highway" attitude exhibited by some of the more vocal leaders. CN may still be useful to some, but not to me.. not any more. I pop in once in a while when time allows, but it's mainly to keep in contact with friends.

[AndyH]

It's STILL down. Wow.

Andy.

[Talyn]

In reading some of the comments, i'd have to agree.. favoritism and unfair moderation has always been problematic in CN for as long as i can remember. Sadly, many valuable members have been lost because of it.

Shortly after i joined, one of the moderators (now an Admin) asked if i'd be interested in becoming a Mod. I diplomatically declined, using the slow dial-up connection i had as an excuse. But TBH, it was because i didn't want anyone thinking i adhered to the "my way or the highway" attitude exhibited by some of the more vocal leaders. CN may still be useful to some, but not to me.. not any more. I pop in once in a while when time allows, but it's mainly to keep in contact with friends.

I still use CN because I like the US astronomy scene and also I have friends on there too, some who I have met in person over in the US.

[Talyn]

CN's back. It looks as if they have done some massive pruning of old threads in order to speed the thing up a bit.

[Andrew*]

You're joking! I often use old forum threads to answer questions about more obscure kit and things. It was a brilliant resource and if that's gone then my visits to CN will be few and far between from now on.

Andrew

[Talyn]

Panic ye not, they have done a forum archive so the old threads are still accessible.

[Andrew*]

<phew!>

[saturn5]

It's a great resource though

It certainly used to be and i've only ever been modded once,hard to believe i know,especially when i've got my Che Guevara head on.

[The Warthog]

The complaints described on this board are the reason I never really took up with CN. I didn't know bout the religious stuff, although I have encountered it in many American forums. Hmmm. I should tell them i'm a High Anglican, I'd probably get banned from the board.

I am a member of a smaller forum, forum.ourdarkskies.com. A couple of our members besides me are also there, and Noel Carboni and Greg Parker are also members, and a great resource on photography. There are some definite religous beliefs on the board, but the owner (a fundamentalist minister) doesn't allow religious or political topics.

[matthewota]

Being a U.S. Citizen, I can most assuredly state that there are many people in this country that have very poor critical thinking skills, and very few manners. I cringe at hearing the way young "ladies" speak these days, with every other word an obscenity.

Somewhere along the way(the 1960s I think) American culture went down the tubes.

There are too may lowlifes around who think a good evening's entertainment must include consumption of alcohol to excess, along with illegal narcotics, plopped in front of the television watching inane reality series TV or "pro" wrestling. Most Americans know more about what color panties Paris Hilton has on than what is going on in Europe or the rest of the world. US news broadcasts are heavy on "entertainment" news instead of world news.

I am severely critical of American pop culture. Today's teenagers idolize "gangsta" cuture, which promotes illegal activity, insults women ("hoes") and glorifies violence and criminal activity.

I am sorry for hijacking the topic, but I felt the need to vent. However, most American amateur astronomers are not like this and tend to have higher education and more class than the majority of the idiots who live here.

[The Warthog]

Don't be so hard on your coutnry, Matthew. For all its faults, it is a great coutnry. After all, if a black, first generation American with a Muslim name can be elected President in these times, then America must be the land of opportunity that it has always claimed to be.

We have the same bar culture amongst the young in Canada, and I dare say, in the UK, that you complain about in the US.

Though I shake my head sometimes, in bewilderment or amusement, at the things that come out of the US, I love America and Americans.

[FLO]

I envy Americans for the country they live in. Is it any wonder so many of them know so little about countries outside the US when they have so much geography, geology and weather on their own doorstep

Regarding Cloudy Nights and their product preferences, much of it can be explained by the way astro kit is marketed over in the US. Here in the UK we buy 'products' whereas in the US they buy 'personalities'. Also, Americans are much more patriotic than us Brits so their marketing ignores the fact that almost everything is sourced from Taiwan, China and Japan and focuses instead on whichever American personality or company is behind the brand.

Also, astronomy is no different to other industries in the way certain product types and brands come in and out of fashion and, because of their size and buying strength, the Americans often instigate these fashions. Currently, the APO refractor and ultra widefield eyepiece is in vogue but over time that will change and because they have a largely American membership Cloudy Nights will probably be the best indicator of emerging fashions.

There are of course exceptions and none of the above is meant as criticism, it is only opinion based on observations

[beamish]

Some interesting observations,

only 13% of Americans hold a passport

When I was in New York listening to the news bulletin, the anchorman stated that it was time to look at international events ( great I thought, a chance to catch up), sadly " international " meant anything from outside the City of NY, ie NY state and New Jersey and a bit from Washington !!!

The rest of the world didn't seem to exist !

[George Jones]

only 13% of Americans hold a passport!

Canada and the U.S. just started requiring each other's citizens to have passports to cross the border.

I'm drifting off topic, but some might find the following to be quite surprising. Both my wife and I have lived and worked in the U.S. (we're Canadian), and we were both quite surprised.

Art Hobson, in a letter published the July 2008 issue of The American Journal of Physics, writes:

"Fortunately, the U.S. system of higher education allows us a perfect opportunity to do this. Our system requires most college students to take a variety of general education courses in history, language, literature, the arts, and the sciences. All European nations, and most other nations, have no such general education requirements for college students. U.S. adults have scored far higher than European adults during two decades of tests of general scientific literacy by Jon D. Miller,² Director of the International Center for Scientific Literacy at Michigan State University. Miller has shown that the U.S. required college science courses for nonscientists are almost certainly the reason for this unexpected result, and that these courses are surprisingly effective at instilling lifelong scientific literacy.³ As Miller puts it, “What we are seeing here is a result of the fact that Americans are required to take science courses at the university, while Europeans and Asians are not.

² For an overview of Miller’s program of scientific literacy measurements and analysis, see J. Trefil, Why Science? Teacher’s College Press, New York, 2008, Chap. 6.

³ A. Hobson, “The surprising effectiveness of college scientific literacy courses,” submitted for publication to The Physics Teacher, preprint available at physics.uark.edu/hobson/ pubs/08.01.TPT.html."

[beamish]

Canada and the U.S. just started requiring each other's citizens to have passports to cross the border.

I'm drifting off topic, but some might find the following to be quite surprising. Both my wife and I have lived and worked in the U.S. (we're Canadian), and we were both quite surprised.

Art Hobson, in a letter published the July 2008 issue of The American Journal of Physics, writes:

"Fortunately, the U.S. system of higher education allows us a perfect opportunity to do this. Our system requires most college students to take a variety of general education courses in history, language, literature, the arts, and the sciences. All European nations, and most other nations, have no such general education requirements for college students. U.S. adults have scored far higher than European adults during two decades of tests of general scientific literacy by Jon D. Miller,² Director of the International Center for Scientific Literacy at Michigan State University. Miller has shown that the U.S. required college science courses for nonscientists are almost certainly the reason for this unexpected result, and that these courses are surprisingly effective at instilling lifelong scientific literacy.³ As Miller puts it, “What we are seeing here is a result of the fact that Americans are required to take science courses at the university, while Europeans and Asians are not.

² For an overview of Miller’s program of scientific literacy measurements and analysis, see J. Trefil, Why Science? Teacher’s College Press, New York, 2008, Chap. 6.

³ A. Hobson, “The surprising effectiveness of college scientific literacy courses,” submitted for publication to The Physics Teacher, preprint available at physics.uark.edu/hobson/ pubs/08.01.TPT.html."

Clearly he must have been thinking of this when writing his report :)

[Talyn]

Being a U.S. Citizen, I can most assuredly state that there are many people in this country that have very poor critical thinking skills, and very few manners. I cringe at hearing the way young "ladies" speak these days, with every other word an obscenity.

Somewhere along the way(the 1960s I think) American culture went down the tubes.

There are too may lowlifes around who think a good evening's entertainment must include consumption of alcohol to excess, along with illegal narcotics, plopped in front of the television watching inane reality series TV or "pro" wrestling. Most Americans know more about what color panties Paris Hilton has on than what is going on in Europe or the rest of the world. US news broadcasts are heavy on "entertainment" news instead of world news.

I am severely critical of American pop culture. Today's teenagers idolize "gangsta" cuture, which promotes illegal activity, insults women ("hoes") and glorifies violence and criminal activity.

I am sorry for hijacking the topic, but I felt the need to vent. However, most American amateur astronomers are not like this and tend to have higher education and more class than the majority of the idiots who live here.

That is pretty much identical to what is happening here in the UK, too. Your post, word for word, describes the poor state of affairs here - celebrity obsessed populace who have IQs lower than their shoe size, glorification of violence, every other word is the "f" word (I admit I swear, but I never drop it into casual conversation), no respect for anyone or anything, failing society...it goes on.

I agree about American amateur astronomers, I have had the good fortune to go to US star parties and I love the country and the people I met. I have never met a single American amateur astronomer I didn't like and I have met a few of you guys now.

I am a massive fan of the USA and envy you your vast country, your southwestern states with lots of clear nights and your patriotism (try being patriotic here and you get called 'racist').

[acey]

I think Cloudy Nights is great, there are people on it with bigger scopes, darker skies and more experience than I'll ever have. I have books by some of them on my shelf.

I really couldn't care less about their political/religious/moral views, or about how those who freely give their time to moderate the forum decide to exercise their privilege.

Just my penn'orth.

And of course I like SGL too - it's not a competition.

[Talyn]

Cloudy Nights is great, there's no disputing that. It's just - immaterial of them giving up spare time to do so - the somewhat eccentric moderating that people were talking about.

Some of the best amateurs in the world are members there, and that alone makes CN the best astronomy forum (apart from SGL of course!) out there.

[NickH]

Agreed, and it's why it's all the more painful to not be a part of it...because of utterly ridiculous moderation policies...my choice, I know, but to have someone remove all my images due to them being stated as coming from a modified PST is just ridiculous

[Breakintheclouds]

I've frequented one or two other US forums (fora?) over the years, particularly for hiking discussions, and when I first came across Cloudy Nights I was struck by how similar it felt in style - both in the style of the comments and the style of moderation - to these other US fora. So here's another way of looking at it: in this age of increasing homogeneity, it's perhaps quite nice that the US and UK still have recognizably different styles of doing something. Indeed, when you think about it, it's rather odd and fascinating to see that online discussion, something which grew up in an international age, should have developed distinct regional styles.

[skye at night]

I use it in a 'Lurking' capacity as it is often the first with reviews and has quite broad equipment discussion..

NEVER had the urge to join though as I think membership of 3 astro-forums is quite enough!

I am tempted now ... just to see what might happen when online and 'drunk in charge of keyboard ' some friday night!!!!

Steve

[Macavity]

"When in Rome"? But I do admit to falling foul of CN moderation, when protesting a personal insult by one of their "good old boy", vaguely right-wing, xenophobes. BUT then some of those characters seem to have little to offer on Astronomy anyway, and mostly "hang" on the general forums? I applaud the genuinely scholarly advice of some CN experts - Notably re. eyepiece chacteristics and choices.

But ultimately it was under conditions of (CN) "extremesis" that I had the pleasure of "meeting" Carol L, for the first time. And somone who indeed typifies the (often missing UK-locally?) old-world courtesy and friendliness of Americans, I have met face to face.

P.S. <wryly> Whatever their minor "pathologies" [teasing], at least Americans don't introduce themselves in "Spot the Brit"(!), text-speak on multi-national forums. For, as Peter (family guy) Griffin, might say: "That REALLY grinds my gears"! LOL

[matthewota]

If you think Cloudy Nights is overmoderated, try the Bad Astronomy/Astronomy Today forums. After five years of membership, I was banned after inserting this icon when replying to a 2012 disaster woo woo posting: