Upgrading to Windows 11 .... now that the end of Windows 10 is looming :-(((

[SteveNickolls]

Interesting video here-

All may not be lost...

Do spare a thought for the small software developers getting to grips with the changes keeping up with Win 12.

Cheers,

Steve

Edited June 13 by SteveNickolls

[Vroobel]

I use nearly 2.5 years old gaming laptop sold with Windows 11. I don't play games, but Ryzen 9 CPU, 32GB RAM and 3TB SSD in total is very helpful in a work with PixInsight and 3D modelling software. I plan traveling somewhere, not too far under a darker sky, but I'm worried about the laptop, I don't want to lose it. That's why I reanimated an old Dell with i7 2nd gen, 8GB RAM and 240 SATA SSD. Nothing better than Windows 10 can be installed, but I don't need anything better for working remotely with NINA. It's slow, so... 

After reading the above Linux enthusiast posts I know what will do this evening... 😁

[Xilman]

1 hour ago, Alien 13 said:

I have to admit I am worried about the end of life thingy even though I can easily upgrade to Win 11 and do have that on some of my machines but cant say I like it. Have thought about moving to Linux but that is problematic too with far too many flavours etc, have to hope STEAM saves me with its own desktop OS based on Arch Linux I think..

Alan

The number of flavours should not dissuade you. Most of the variants are essentially the same as each other. The major differences between them lie in which GUI is used.

Personally, I use and recommend the XFCE interface, largely because it is based on an idea from MSFT way back in the day. If you have used anything from Win95 onward (apart from that abomination Win8) you should have no real difficulties.

Suggestion: download https://cdimages.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/releases/22.04/release/

and boot it from a USB stick. Play with it for a few minutes/hours/days and then consider dual-booting with the OS you already have.

There is a vast amount of astro and image processing related software for Ubuntu, quite a lot of which I use several times a week.

 

[GrumpiusMaximus]

2 hours ago, Xilman said:

The number of flavours should not dissuade you. Most of the variants are essentially the same as each other. The major differences between them lie in which GUI is used.

Personally, I use and recommend the XFCE interface, largely because it is based on an idea from MSFT way back in the day. If you have used anything from Win95 onward (apart from that abomination Win8) you should have no real difficulties.

Suggestion: download https://cdimages.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/releases/22.04/release/

and boot it from a USB stick. Play with it for a few minutes/hours/days and then consider dual-booting with the OS you already have.

There is a vast amount of astro and image processing related software for Ubuntu, quite a lot of which I use several times a week.

 

Agreed.  For a first timer, stick with Debian-based (or RHEL-based but this is a little more niche) and you should be fine.  Within the main 'families' (Debian, RHEL, Arch, etc.) the main differences are the user interface.  You can pick and choose from a vast array of different user interfaces.  As Xilman says above, XFCE is a good option.  Some like Cinnamon, some like LXQt, others like GNOME or KDE and there are loads of others to choose from.

For Debian-based distros, Ubuntu is still a decent option because it does tend to have better driver support out of the box than some other Debian-based distros.  Debian itself is a valid option but I've found graphics driver support a little trickier - although it's not too much effort to find the driver and manually install it if you have a few minutes.  Ubuntu itself comes in different flavours (Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Xubuntu, Lubuntu) with some of the UI options pre-installed.  Linux Mint is supposed to be very beginner-friendly, too. You can, of course, download additional UIs and choose between them at login as well.

The great thing is that they're all available to you to download and try.  It only takes about ten-fifteen minutes to actually install most Linux distros on any semi-reasonable hardware so if you don't like one distribution, you can try another.  All you need is a USB stick and a program called Rufus to write to the USB.  Obviously, it's easier if you have two computers so that you can make your bootable USB drives on one and try it in the other device.  This is especially true if the device you're installing onto doesn't have any data - because installing will usually wipe your hard drive (unless you're very careful).  Usually, however, you can try the operating system out without having to install it first - it just runs straight off the USB.

As with everything though, for every Linux user there is a slightly different opinion on their favourite configuration - so it pays to fiddle around.

Edited June 13 by GrumpiusMaximus

[Vroobel]

😁

 

[malc-c]

What I find ironic is that with the drive (and in placed like the UK, its law) to have manufactures make hardware repairable to increase its life span we then have Microsoft release an OS that makes even quite new hardware obsolete as Windows 11 out of the box isn't supported on it.  So, those who have a good understanding of what goes on under the hood can "tweak" the installation to make Win11 run on the "old" hardware, but for a lot of people who lack that experience  are pushed towards replacing otherwise decent hardware, making the old machine redundant.

Given all the recent stick regarding MS enforcing the use of an MS Account and software that tracks your viewing habits to make the "windows experience tailored to the user "  I will be sticking with Windows 10, even after they stop supporting it.

Someone mentioned that its a free update, that is true for the home user.  But MS have got the commercial market over a barrel.  Most firms have to pay for the licencing, and given the risk normally upgrade to the latest and supported operating system, which is predominately windows, so now that means most businesses are faced with the huge expense of replacing otherwise perfectly good hardware in order to be supported.  It can also be an issue for software companies.  When I was an IT tech some 12 years ago the company used a bespoke CRM system that worked well on Windows 7, but when windows 10 was released it required some big changes because some of the licenced 3rd party modules just didn't work on windows 10.  This left us with the dilemma, stick with windows 7 but then run the risk of security issues on an unsupported OS, or change the CRM system over to a system that ran on windows 10, which would have been a huge cost and long nights upgrading the PCs and servers.  In the end the CRM company came out with an update, albeit almost a year after Windows 10 was released. 

[Louis D]

Speaking of old systems, every once in a while I come across old mom & pop shops still running customer ticketing on DOS and printing receipts using a pin-feed printer with carbon copies.  I'm always amazed to see such setups still running in everyday use.  It still meets their needs 30+ years later, so why upgrade?

[Elp]

8 hours ago, Dr_Ju_ju said:

Anything that pushes useless products and services (Advertising etc.)...   

Don't forget about Windows Recall, something absolutely nobody asked for. If you don't know what it is look it up.

[Elp]

8 hours ago, Dr_Ju_ju said:

Anything that pushes useless products and services (Advertising etc.)...   

Why oh why does this dupe all the time?

Edited June 13 by Elp
Duplicate post

[PhilB61]

I run two laptops for imaging, one is based on W10 pro and the other W11 both have a full suite of acquisition and processing software including ;

Nina, iOptron Commander, PHD2, Ascom, CdC, ASIsuite, Sharpcap, Siril, ASTAP, GraXpert, Starnet, Synscan, GIMP, Startools, Firecapture, DSS, etc plus many more...

No problems running any of the above software on either machine, I keep up to date with all security and functionality upgrades. I do try to remember to pause updates on imaging nights.

I am annoyed that hardware limitations stop me from updating the W10 machine though. I wonder if Microsoft may relax on that when they eventually stop supporting W10, but probably not.

 

 

[malc-c]

14 hours ago, PhilB61 said:

 

I am annoyed that hardware limitations stop me from updating the W10 machine though. I wonder if Microsoft may relax on that when they eventually stop supporting W10, but probably not.

If you search Youtube there are loads of videos showing you how to overcome the "hardware limitations".  It's not difficult, and you'll be surprised just how old some of the PCs used are !!

 

[Earl]

Upgraded my non supported Desktop to 11 last year (no TPM) all works fine, Sam's PC keeps telling her to upgrade, but she does not want to until she has no choice, as it works a does exactly what she wants.

[Albir phil]

On 12/06/2024 at 19:40, carastro said:

I find it more of a problem with drivers when l have to move operating systems. 
 

l have just bought a W11.  I can’t get my Guide camera to work on it.
l have an old Guide camera.  Luckily l still have an old W7 l can use for that.  
 

Photoshop and Stellarium works fine.  
 

Carole

Why is it that Microsoft cannot make any upgrades work on our hardware as it did with the previous system, there always seems to be problems at some point,it seems to occur with software upgrades as well sometimes, though this is not due to Microsoft 🤔

[Elp]

To be honest it's really just planned obsolescence, and their OS release seem to get quicker and quicker since the demise of XP. After XP it was initially because Vista was such a pile so they had to make a replacement. 8 was also a dodo even more quickly replaced. They can mostly ignore the home market though they likely get a fair chunk of change from OEMs for including their OSs by default on retail new units, the commercial market is where they likely make the most money so replacing OSs and software suites fills their bank account by a large magnitude. Add to their subscription softwares it's a perpetual money making machine. It's not just limited to MS, everyone does it. And you don't actually own the software most of the time, you're simply licensing it for use under their terms.

Edited Friday at 15:36 by Elp

[Xilman]

2 hours ago, Albir phil said:

Why is it that Microsoft cannot make any upgrades work on our hardware as it did with the previous system, there always seems to be problems at some point,it seems to occur with software upgrades as well sometimes, though this is not due to Microsoft 🤔

Can, but won't --- unless they can make more money by doing so than by not doing so.  I speak of which I know because I worked for MSFT for something over 6 years.

Always keep in mind the Golden Rule: them what have the gold make the rules.

[DaveL59]

2 hours ago, Albir phil said:

Why is it that Microsoft cannot make any upgrades work on our hardware as it did with the previous system, there always seems to be problems at some point,it seems to occur with software upgrades as well sometimes, though this is not due to Microsoft 🤔

Part of the reason is to push folk to move to a more secure CPU design, since all the older generations were susceptible to a couple exploits. The OS could work around this at the cost of consuming CPU cycles and reducing performance. A real pity given I have perfectly serviceable i5 & i7 systems and laptops that are essentially junk now IRO of maintaining OS support since they can't run W11 without hacking the install and that won't be something we can maintain for long. The move to TPM v2 pretty much tips the balance since that's not an upgradable component either.

Same applied to VMs that I have running on VMware, since even upgrading the underlying platform, no virtual TPM is available unless you spend £££ for the appropriate license level, not viable for a home lab. Moving to ProxMox does mean I can run W11 VMs but of course that ain't a simple transfer over from VMware and run, since the underlying 'hardware' changes and causes a license issue. So a PITA really, but one we're pretty much being forced to accept for 'better security', as if there ain't gonna be bugs and exploits in their new OS releases and updated, yeah right! 😄 

[Elp]

21 minutes ago, DaveL59 said:

Part of the reason is to push folk to move to a more secure CPU design

There's a solution to this. Networking 101, to secure a device do not connect it to a network (also limit the amount of physical users).

But in this day and age it's almost impossible to implement. They also don't test software as stringently and leave it to users to test them and patch them, it's a lazy way of releasing coded product (not just unique to MS mind).

[Xilman]

11 minutes ago, Elp said:

There's a solution to this. Networking 101, to secure a device do not connect it to a network (also limit the amount of physical users).

But in this day and age it's almost impossible to implement. They also don't test software as stringently and leave it to users to test them and patch them, it's a lazy way of releasing coded product (not just unique to MS mind).

Another solution: don't run MSFT software.

[DaveL59]

17 minutes ago, Elp said:

There's a solution to this. Networking 101, to secure a device do not connect it to a network (also limit the amount of physical users).

But in this day and age it's almost impossible to implement. They also don't test software as stringently and leave it to users to test them and patch them, it's a lazy way of releasing coded product (not just unique to MS mind).

haha yeah and before we all had easy internet access we instead had PC mags with FDD and CD's with lots of freeware progs that folk could/would load. Enough virus outbreaks got caused that way as I recall, even better was the desktop team roaming about 'checking' all our PC's, unwittingly carrying the virus around via SneakerNet and installing it on every machine they touched 😄 

Oh and I was the one to advise them what had happened, since I took a copy of some reports and budgets I was working on onto FDD so I could work on them at home that evening on my much better spec PC. The AV I was running went ballistic with alarms as soon as I loaded that FDD from work when it that same FDD been fine the day before.

Edited Friday at 16:39 by DaveL59

[Louis D]

11 hours ago, Elp said:

There's a solution to this. Networking 101, to secure a device do not connect it to a network (also limit the amount of physical users).

Not possible with a lot of software that requires phoning home for license checking.  My wife ran into this with Adobe products.  They will not work in closed, secure rooms that have no external internet connections.  This was a deal breaker for DoD (US military) contracts, so Adobe was informed they would be cut off from all DoD bidding.  Low and behold, they replied "Wait, we can work around licensing issues for you".  I'm not sure exactly what that work around is (security rules prohibit me from knowing), but I found it hilarious that they bumped up against a customer that couldn't be bullied (the US military).

[Elp]

4 hours ago, Louis D said:

Adobe

They're one of the worst for this and probably at the forefront as to why most companies now do subscription software whereas prior the trend was more in line with one time purchase software. What's worse is they have a monopoly on content creation software, for commercial outfits its usually absolutely no choice but to pay up every month/year.

[GrumpiusMaximus]

On 14/06/2024 at 16:53, DaveL59 said:

...but one we're pretty much being forced to accept for 'better security', as if there ain't gonna be bugs and exploits in their new OS releases and updated, yeah right! 😄 

I know they've u-turned on it a bit in the last couple of days but Microsoft talking about 'security' and TPM 2.0 requirements and then announcing something like Recall is just laughable.  Especially when Recall was going to use an unencrypted SQL database.

According to a few things that I've read, Recall was developed by a small team at Microsoft and then suddenly announced and it appears to have caught the rest of the business slightly off-guard.  There's been another 'security is a priority' memo as a standing item at Microsoft for a while now but the Recall team seem to have forgotten about this and reading between the lines it looks like they've had their knuckles severely rapped for it.

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2024/06/microsoft-delays-data-scraping-recall-feature-again-commits-to-public-beta-test/
 

Nevertheless, the fact that a small team in Microsoft does just have the autonomy to go ahead and do something like this and then announce it without the rest of the company being fully aware is a massive red flag as to their internal structuring.  Siloing is one of the biggest threats to any company.

Granted what I do is a lot less complex but within the company I work for, I've implemented a change management service that we can use internally and with our customers and it's totally painless.  It follows basic ITIL principles and seems to work quite well.  Because we have a continual improvement mindset, systemic issues get picked up and I go away and work on those in consultation with the rest of the team.  The fact that Microsoft don't seem to able to get even basic, ITIL-Fundamental level process management working internally makes me seriously worried.

[Elp]

2 hours ago, GrumpiusMaximus said:

Recall

I don't know why they (any software company) insist on including stuff like this that we don't need. Even if it's not enabled I don't want it on my system full stop, it's a potential Trojan horse massive security risk.

[Mognet]

I'm looking at buying at new laptop at the moment, but it looks like I won't have a choice but to get a Windows 11 one. The need for an account with them and the announcement of Recall are putting me off. Fortunately installing without an account seems easy (currently), and MS are now getting a lot of pushback on Recall over its spyware-like behaviour and weak security.

Seriously tempted to use Linux as the main OS and W11 in a VM though!

[Elp]

On 15/06/2024 at 19:51, Elp said:

I don't know why they (any software company) insist on including stuff like this that we don't need. Even if it's not enabled I don't want it on my system full stop, it's a potential Trojan horse massive security risk.

Looks like, Recall has now been recalled. But they're still going to plough on with it for their initial testing programme, which should have been done in the first place.