105mm vs 140mm on the Sun

[Captain Scarlet]

I got around to looking at Sol through both my astro refractors today, first light at the Sun for the Stellarview SVX140T.

Lots of sunspots, I counted ten individuals or groups including what I assume is the recent Aurora-creator back around again, almost as big as it was before. I restricted myself to 52x on the LZOS 105 (Morpheus 12.5) and 54x with the SV 140 (Delos 17.3) so very comparable magnifications. I was using the Baader Herschel Wedge I got from @Stu a few months back. I would have upped the magnification but it was a bit breezy and wouldn’t have been worth it. Even so, the difference in detail on show was noticeable.

Through both scopes the bigger sunspots all had that 3D view of a black pool surrounded by a convex cliff rising to the bright surface. The spot to the North of the Sun’s disc seemed to be surrounded by what I can only describe as “slug trails”: random sinuations meandering around the surface near the spot. There were hints, especially closer to the edge (limb?) of the orange-peel effect. The whole impression was satisfying and did beg for more mag.

Through the 140, at more or less the same mag, everything was just more detailed, with far more orange peel evident. The slug-tracks were evident in more places and more tiny spots could be seen. But being a much heavier scope, 12kg, it was affected by the gusts a bit more so spent only a short time with it. Very nice to give it its Solar inauguration though.

Cheers, Magnus

 

 

 

[Mr Spock]

I find my 120mm, despite being an achromat, is far more detailed than the FC-100. The Continuum eliminates all the uncorrected wavelengths just leaving a perfectly corrected image.

Yesterday the large sunspot group had loads of grey areas which were just full of detail. There was one really dark spot in that group which had a 3D hollow round it. 

 

[JAC51]

I’m not just admiring your description but also the stunning scenery in the background.

With the view you have do you ever use your telescopes as spotting scopes?

[Captain Scarlet]

3 hours ago, JAC51 said:

I’m not just admiring your description but also the stunning scenery in the background.

With the view you have do you ever use your telescopes as spotting scopes?

I do indeed, including before I took the photo. I have a Baader Amici prism diagonal for the purpose. The seeing terrestrially was terrible, being a hot day, but on cool days it can be amazing with crazy magnifications possible.

[Space Hopper]

You probably don't need me telling, but take care with the 140 / HW combo.

I have a very similar setup, and i read somewhere the recommended aperture limit for the HW is 120mm -/+

Above this, and especially with faster scopes, heat can build up inside.

This has been debated at length on the various forums, and Baader have tested themselves with apertures up to 8". 

I would have thought the 105 would have more than held its own on the sun, and find it interesting you think the 140 is that much better, but i guess aperture rules, especially if the seeing is decent enough for you.

I think from my own location maybe the seeing never fully supports using a bigger aperture.

 

MORE OF AN ISSUE is what i found out using a manual alt-az mount. If you let the sun 'drift' out of the field of view

the sides of the HW can get hot too. I found this out myself, after letting the sun drift across a couple of times after being distracted I noticed a little smoke coming out of the wedge,

and when i felt the body of the wedge it was overly hot.

I don't necessarily think there was any immediate danger of damage being done, it could have been a bit of debris or perhaps an insect remanent  burning.

But it unnerved me a bit, and i decided not to use my 140 with it and perhaps get a smaller refractor.

Current funds prohibited that, so if i use the HW now, i'll just have short looks at the sun and then move the scope away to avoid any heat build up and just take extra care.

 

You have a stunning location Magnus, i'm not at all jealous !! Love your Stellavue scope too. 

One last thing  : the Baader HW converts really well if you want to binoview. I can recommend it !

 

[Stu]

47 minutes ago, Space Hopper said:

You probably don't need me telling, but take care with the 140 / HW combo.

I have a very similar setup, and i read somewhere the recommended aperture limit for the HW is 120mm -/+

Above this, and especially with faster scopes, heat can build up inside.

This has been debated at length on the various forums, and Baader have tested themselves with apertures up to 8". 

I would have thought the 105 would have more than held its own on the sun, and find it interesting you think the 140 is that much better, but i guess aperture rules, especially if the seeing is decent enough for you.

I think from my own location maybe the seeing never fully supports using a bigger aperture.

 

MORE OF AN ISSUE is what i found out using a manual alt-az mount. If you let the sun 'drift' out of the field of view

the sides of the HW can get hot too. I found this out myself, after letting the sun drift across a couple of times after being distracted I noticed a little smoke coming out of the wedge,

and when i felt the body of the wedge it was overly hot.

I don't necessarily think there was any immediate danger of damage being done, it could have been a bit of debris or perhaps an insect remanent  burning.

But it unnerved me a bit, and i decided not to use my 140 with it and perhaps get a smaller refractor.

Current funds prohibited that, so if i use the HW now, i'll just have short looks at the sun and then move the scope away to avoid any heat build up and just take extra care.

 

You have a stunning location Magnus, i'm not at all jealous !! Love your Stellavue scope too. 

One last thing  : the Baader HW converts really well if you want to binoview. I can recommend it !

 

Magnus’ wedge is already converted to have a shorter light path and T2 direct connection for binoviewers if wanted. 

[JAC51]

I have been using the Mk1 version of the Baader HW with a 130mm Refractor for several years. Longest sessions are about 60 minutes mainly due to me overheating rather than the telescope. I should add this has always been with tracking on an EQ mount.

[Highburymark]

Nice report Magnus.
Everyone seems to have different preferences and local conditions for white light. It’s definitely worth trying higher powers from time to time. I mostly observe between 140x and 200x with a binoviewer. Of course it’s often not possible to go that high, but sometimes the seeing can appear a little unstable at 50-60x, so observers don’t go any higher, yet you can still get really rewarding views if you push things up to 140x and above. You may need to be patient, and wait for short moments of steadiness, but it’s well worth it for close detail of active regions.

[Ratlet]

I need to block the solar group on here.  These reports are making me want to ditch the solar film and get a wedge.

I was happy before.   Was!

[Captain Scarlet]

4 hours ago, Space Hopper said:

You probably don't need me telling, but take care with the 140 / HW combo.

I have a very similar setup, and i read somewhere the recommended aperture limit for the HW is 120mm -/+

Above this, and especially with faster scopes, heat can build up inside.

This has been debated at length on the various forums, and Baader have tested themselves with apertures up to 8". 

I would have thought the 105 would have more than held its own on the sun, and find it interesting you think the 140 is that much better, but i guess aperture rules, especially if the seeing is decent enough for you.

I think from my own location maybe the seeing never fully supports using a bigger aperture.

 

MORE OF AN ISSUE is what i found out using a manual alt-az mount. If you let the sun 'drift' out of the field of view

the sides of the HW can get hot too. I found this out myself, after letting the sun drift across a couple of times after being distracted I noticed a little smoke coming out of the wedge,

and when i felt the body of the wedge it was overly hot.

I don't necessarily think there was any immediate danger of damage being done, it could have been a bit of debris or perhaps an insect remanent  burning.

But it unnerved me a bit, and i decided not to use my 140 with it and perhaps get a smaller refractor.

Current funds prohibited that, so if i use the HW now, i'll just have short looks at the sun and then move the scope away to avoid any heat build up and just take extra care.

 

You have a stunning location Magnus, i'm not at all jealous !! Love your Stellavue scope too. 

One last thing  : the Baader HW converts really well if you want to binoview. I can recommend it !

 

Thanks for all this, I wasn’t aware there was a recommendation limit for HWs but it makes sense. Nonetheless I was checking tube temperatures and wedge too from time to time for just that reason. I’ve heard enough stories of leaving a scope out unattended pointing at the ecliptic and getting damaged as the sun came along!

3 hours ago, Highburymark said:

Nice report Magnus.
Everyone seems to have different preferences and local conditions for white light. It’s definitely worth trying higher powers from time to time. I mostly observe between 140x and 200x with a binoviewer. Of course it’s often not possible to go that high, but sometimes the seeing can appear a little unstable at 50-60x, so observers don’t go any higher, yet you can still get really rewarding views if you push things up to 140x and above. You may need to be patient, and wait for short moments of steadiness, but it’s well worth it for close detail of active regions.

I was itching to try higher magnification but it was just too gusty and the 12-odd kg of the scope was right at the limit of the skytee2, image wobbling around, so I demurred. Next time.

[bosun21]

3 hours ago, Ratlet said:

I need to block the solar group on here.  These reports are making me want to ditch the solar film and get a wedge.

I was happy before.   Was!

Whatever you do, DON'T! frequent the Ha section or threads then.

[Roy Challen]

6 hours ago, Ratlet said:

I need to block the solar group on here.  These reports are making me want to ditch the solar film and get a wedge.

I was happy before.   Was!

Do let us know how you get on with the new wedge😜

[Alan White]

4 hours ago, Roy Challen said:

Do let us know how you get on with the new wedge😜

My feelings on this too, we all know how these things go.

[Ratlet]

I would like to thank you all for your support in these trying times.

[Alan White]

49 minutes ago, Ratlet said:

I would like to thank you all for your support in these trying times.

It's what we are all here for 😉

 

[Mr Spock]

They just make you want them 

[Space Hopper]

..........you gotta love Baader Planetarium !!

Such nice gear.