SEEING IS BELIEVING - DISCUSS. 🤔

[Flame Nebula]

I read an interesting article, "Predicting astronomical seeing in the UK", by the esteemed planetary photographer, Damian Peach, which concluded that July to early October was the best time to observe planets and double stars, with respect to seeing. 

So, of course, this triggered a post🤔

Has this been your experience? 

When you've had good seeing, was it associated with any particular weather front? 

Finally, I've tried and failed, to locate a website that predicts seeing in uk. Anyone know if one exists? I've seen ones that predict cloud, but I can use any old weather app for that! 

Thanks 

Mark

 

SoPredicting astronomical seeing in the UK
Authors: Peach, D.: Predicting astronomical seeing in the UK
Authors: Peach, D.: Predicting astronomical seeing in the UK
Authors: Peach, D.
Authors

 

Edited April 13 by Flame Nebula

[Steve Ward]

https://www.meteoblue.com/en/weather/outdoorsports/seeing/sheffield_united-kingdom_2638077

[Stu]

Outside doing all you can to counter local seeing issues, the position of the Jetstream is probably on of the most important things. I use this site for the Jetstream forecast:

https://www.netweather.tv/charts-and-data/jetstream

When overhead, planets can look like they are under a running stream of water. Best to observe planets when it is elsewhere.

Locally, you can ensure you avoid observing over houses, near central heating flumes, preferably on grass etc etc. In addition, particularly during winter, observing in the small hours often seems best as the land and buildings have cooled, and convection currents are at a minimum.

Only other advice is observe for as long and as often as you can to catch the best seeing, and spend time at the eyepiece as them you catch the best moments and over time build up a much more detailed picture than with a quick look.

[Steve Ward]

I would add that you shouldn't get too hung up waiting for the best conditions but get out there when the sky is clear and enjoy.

Visually there are always moments of stillness even when the average seeng is poor , it's just a matter of patience and waiting for those to occur and details to pop.

Imaging-wise for solar , lunar and planetary the high framerate camera , lucky imaging approach works wonders .

Damien's articles are good readings , just remember that when he grabs his best images these days he's sat by a swimming pool in the Bahamas ... 😉

[IB20]

Use the netweather jet stream forecast myself and find it’s pretty good at giving an idea of general seeing but as Steve mentions, they’ll always be a few moments of good seeing thrown in with some patience. Your local conditions will play a part too, I.e observing on concrete over turf or observing over rooftops/chimneys etc

[Flame Nebula]

20 minutes ago, Steve Ward said:

I would add that you shouldn't get too hung up waiting for the best conditions but get out there when the sky is clear and enjoy.

Visually there are always moments of stillness even when the average seeng is poor , it's just a matter of patience and waiting for those to occur and details to pop.

Imaging-wise for solar , lunar and planetary the high framerate camera , lucky imaging approach works wonders .

Damien's articles are good readings , just remember that when he grabs his best images these days he's sat by a swimming pool in the Bahamas ... 😉

Yes, I do feel sorry for him. 😉

[Flame Nebula]

39 minutes ago, Steve Ward said:

https://www.meteoblue.com/en/weather/outdoorsports/seeing/sheffield_united-kingdom_2638077

Thanks Steve! Looks useful. 

What I did notice, which was interesting, was the arc second resolutions. Not sure if these are a representative sample for my area all year round, but if they are, then a 4" apo would see all there was to see most of the time, at least visually. I use the phrase " most of the time", because clearly, with prolonged sitting at a larger aperture scope I'm sure occasionally there will be moments of sub arcsecond seeing, where the scope would shine. But, nevertheless, it makes the 4"apo more attractive. 

Edited April 13 by Flame Nebula

[Steve Ward]

3 minutes ago, Flame Nebula said:

Thanks Steve! Looks useful. 

What I did notice, which was interesting, was the arc second resolutions. Not sure if these are a representative sample for my area all year round, but if they are, then a 4" apo would see all there was to see most of the time, at least visually. I use the phrase " most of the time", because clearly, with prolonged sitting at a larger aperture scope I'm sure occasionally there will be moments of sub arcsecond seeing, where the scope would shine. But, nevertheless, it makes the 4"apo more attractive. 

I'll be honest and say that I've never found it all that accurate , but I'm mainly solar imaging and daytime conditions vary wildly depending on location , time of day etc , hence my "get out while it's clear" approach.

If I waited for perfectly transparent blue sky and super seeing I'd never get any glass aimed at it .

[mikeDnight]

1 hour ago, Flame Nebula said:

I read an interesting article, "Predicting astronomical seeing in the UK", by the esteemed planetary photographer, Damian Peach, which concluded that July to early October was the best time to observe planets and double stars, with respect to seeing. 

So, of course, this triggered a post🤔

Has this been your experience? 

When you've had good seeing, was it associated with any particular weather front? 

Finally, I've tried and failed, to locate a website that predicts seeing in uk. Anyone know if one exists? I've seen ones that predict cloud, but I can use any old weather app for that! 

Thanks 

Mark

 

SoPredicting astronomical seeing in the UK
Authors: Peach, D.: Predicting astronomical seeing in the UK
Authors: Peach, D.: Predicting astronomical seeing in the UK
Authors: Peach, D.
Authors

 

Thats not quite my experience from a visual only perspective. Actually the heat of the day during summer months can be a real problem as buildings around you lose the heat they've stored throughout the day causing unstable seeing locally. January through to May generally gives me my best seeing, though I also get stunningly good views throughout winter months quite regularly. So I'm not a fan of making statements that plant limitations in our minds, as having such a mind set means observers will miss many great opportunities. 

Edited April 13 by mikeDnight

[Flame Nebula]

1 minute ago, mikeDnight said:

Thats not quite my experience from a visual only perspective. Actually the heat of the day during summer months can be a really problem as buildings around you lose the heat they've stored throughout the day causing unstable seeing locally. January through to May generally gives me my best seeing, though I also get stunningly good views throughout winter months quite regularly. So I'm not a fan of making statements that plant limitations in our minds, as having such a mind set means observers will miss many great opportunities. 

Useful comments Mike 👍

[IB20]

Yeah I find for my local seeing, I get the best views when surrounding infrastructure and temperature differentials are the closest - so April-May and Sept-Oct are the best times. My dob in winter becomes a bit of an ornament. In summer the later at night (or v early in the AM) the better. 

But as Mike suggests, get out at every opportunity as they’ll always be a moment or window!

Edited April 13 by IB20

[Second Time Around]

Another site with seeing forecasts: https://www.metcheck.com/HOBBIES/astronomy.asp

It also shows transparency forecasts.

 

[fwm891]

Yet it can still show 100% cloud cover with a starry sky forecast...

 

Edited April 13 by fwm891
too many zeros....

[John]

My experience is to get a scope out and see how it looks at the eyepiece rather than to rely too much on forecasts and models.

Very often I've had a good session against the predictions, which I would have missed out on if I'd not bothered to setup.

Of course there are quite a few occasions when the opposite is true but there you go ! 😉

As @Steve Ward posted earlier, if you wait for optimum conditions, your gear could gather a lot of dust and cobwebs in between uses🙄

[Stu]

31 minutes ago, John said:

My experience is to get a scope out and see how it looks at the eyepiece rather than to rely too much on forecasts and models.

Very often I've had a good session against the predictions, which I would have missed out on if I'd not bothered to setup.

Of course there are quite a few occasions when the opposite is true but there you go ! 😉

As @Steve Ward posted earlier, if you wait for optimum conditions, your gear could gather a lot of dust and cobwebs in between uses🙄

Absolutely agree John. I do think the Jetstream forecast is useful for planetary observing, but if it is overhead and clear then obviously it’s still worth getting out and looking at different, lower power targets. I find Sat24 a much more useful tool than any forecast so tend to ignore anything else; just looking out of the window also works 🤣

Theory is all very well, but as I think I’ve tried to put across to @Flame Nebula in previous posts, there is no substitute for putting in the hard yards to build up experience of what works for you and your observing site.

[Flame Nebula]

52 minutes ago, Stu said:

Absolutely agree John. I do think the Jetstream forecast is useful for planetary observing, but if it is overhead and clear then obviously it’s still worth getting out and looking at different, lower power targets. I find Sat24 a much more useful tool than any forecast so tend to ignore anything else; just looking out of the window also works 🤣

Theory is all very well, but as I think I’ve tried to put across to @Flame Nebula in previous posts, there is no substitute for putting in the hard yards to build up experience of what works for you and your observing site.

Absolutely Stu👍

[LukeTheNuke]

The seeing never seems to be very good where I am for planets or high-res lunar. I've never had a view of Jupiter as good, or anywhere close to it, as I had at the Kelling Heath star party one year. I've put it down to there being rooftops in every direction at home.

This thought puts me off getting back to lunar imaging and trying to do high res stuff. Most of the time, I'm not sure I can even max out my 120 mm refractor.

[Richard N]

Seeing the sky at all is a major challenge here. I’ll happily take whatever “seeing” I get.